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Stryfe motors for IMR's?


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#1 scruffynerfherder

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 02:38 PM

Hey all I know know what everyone is thinking, go lipo, which I do not want to do.

Now, are there any motors besides the stock nerf mtoros that you would reccomend with IMR batteries that is a tiny bit better than stock motors?

It seems that most motors that I've seen in flywheel builds either want less than 7 volts and ask for more amps than aa or imr batteries can provide. Are there any 130 motors that can take 7.4-11.1volts from 2-3 imr batteries, and won't kill imr batteries by asking for more amps than they can deliver?

In a perfect world I guess what I would like is 130 sized motors with about the same specs as the stock stryfe motors but with carbon brushes and ball bearings that can withstand 11.1 volts and doesn't want so many amps my Imr batteries can't deliver and die.

So, what are the optimal 130 motors for 11.1 volts from 3 Imr batteries?
Also, does anyone know the name of the stock stryfe motors incase I burn mine out? Id much rather buy some spare stock motors incase I burn mine out instead of buying a new stryfe.
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#2 mykeypowell

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 04:21 PM

RM2 motors


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#3 scruffynerfherder

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 04:49 PM

RM2 motors


I've read quite a few times that the rm2 motors don't even last as long as the stock nerf motors, even on stock aa batteries.

Would rm2 motors actually be better than stock motors on 2-3 Imr's?

IF there are no 130 motors that are better suited for Imr than stock stryfe motors, are there any 130 motors that I could salvage carbon brushes and ball bearings from? Looking to optomise for imr and not use lipo.
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#4 Penna

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 06:54 PM

Please do not use RM2's, they are terrible and aren't even that safe on normal AA's so IMR's are out of the question.


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#5 scruffynerfherder

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 08:38 PM

Please do not use RM2's, they are terrible and aren't even that safe on normal AA's so IMR's are out of the question.


Yeah, that's what I have always read.

Any 130 motors that can repeatedly take 7-11 volts that won't ask for so many amps it kills my Imr's?

Seems most (not stock nerf motor) 130 motors want less than 7volts and wants so many amps Imr's wouldn't survive.
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#6 Meaker VI

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 10:04 PM

Yeah, that's what I have always read.

Any 130 motors that can repeatedly take 7-11 volts that won't ask for so many amps it kills my Imr's?

Seems most (not stock nerf motor) 130 motors want less than 7volts and wants so many amps Imr's wouldn't survive.


Most non-stock want 6-12v (7v is probably 2s, my 3s fully charged reads 14.1v or something) but also too many amps. They're designed that way to provide better-than-stock performance within the envelope of available battery chemistry - IMRs just aren't close. I hear there are other battery options though (NIMH? NICAD?)
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#7 mykeypowell

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 07:42 AM

well i would reccomend rhinos


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#8 Lasagna

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 08:16 AM

Not sure any MTB's are good for anything other than LiPo or similar, from what I have heard.


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#9 Meaker VI

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 08:34 AM

well i would reccomend rhinos


Per Rhino_aus when asked the same question, they'll overdraw IMRs
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#10 scruffynerfherder

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 11:34 AM

Per Rhino_aus when asked the same question, they'll overdraw IMRs


Yeah, that's one of my biggest concerns.

Seems my best option would just be stock stryfe motors and look for carbon brushes and a ball bearing case to put it all in.

Anyone know what motors are in a stryfe? Id like to have a pair of backups just incase.

Anyone know of a good source for 130 cases that have ball bearings on both ends? And a good source of carbon/silver brushes that fit stryfe 130 motors?
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#11 Meaker VI

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 12:50 PM

Yeah, that's one of my biggest concerns.

Seems my best option would just be stock stryfe motors and look for carbon brushes and a ball bearing case to put it all in.

Anyone know what motors are in a stryfe? Id like to have a pair of backups just incase.

Anyone know of a good source for 130 cases that have ball bearings on both ends? And a good source of carbon/silver brushes that fit stryfe 130 motors?

 

I don't think that's how motors of this scale work. You'd throw the whole motor out if part of it goes bad. If you want a replacement, you'll need to spec it yourself since I haven't seen specs for stock motors. No one in the hobby appears to be interested enough in finding stock-motor replacements to make them - especially since if that's really all you want you can probably throw an ad up in trading or on /r/nerfexchange for stock stryfe motors and get them from people who have upgraded.


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#12 scruffynerfherder

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 02:55 PM

Well the more I read the more it seems like stock nerf 130 motors are the only 130 motors that can run "safely" on 2 to 3 imr's without overdrawing the imr batteries. (Except MAYBE radioshack xmods motors??? But idk if even their "stage 2" 30k rpm motors would be any better than stock stryfe???)

So now I'm curious if any of you know of any relatively cheap 130 motors that have both carbon-silver brushes and ball bearings that I could use to frankenstein with my stock stryfe motors (put carbon brushes and ball bearings in my stock stryfe motor or put stock stryfe armature into ball bearing/carbon brush motor can/case)

I've also seen that a company called pn racing sells just carbon brushes and ball bearing 130 cans/cases, but not sure if I can use stock stryfe armature in their ball bearing can with their carbon brushes. Do any of you happen to know?
Any of you know any other sources for quality 130 carbon/silver brushes and 130 ball bearing cans/cases or ball bearings that would fit in stock stryfe motor cans/cases?

Also would neo magnets change the characteristics of the stryfe motor in a way that it would overdraw and be incompatible with 3 imr batteries?

Edited by scruffynerfherder, 02 June 2017 - 03:02 PM.

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#13 Bubba Longshot

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 04:50 PM

3 Imr batteries and 1 dummy battery should be ok for stock motors. Stock motors are not the best solution for the long run, but it should last at least 2000 shots. I'd recommend that you use the stock motors, then thrift another stryfe, and take those motors.
Just make sure that you do a proper retire with 16-18 gauge silicone wiring.
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#14 Meaker VI

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 04:53 PM

I've also seen that a company called pn racing sells just carbon brushes and ball bearing 130 cans/cases, but not sure if I can use stock stryfe armature in their ball bearing can with their carbon brushes. Do any of you happen to know?
Any of you know any other sources for quality 130 carbon/silver brushes and 130 ball bearing cans/cases or ball bearings that would fit in stock stryfe motor cans/cases?

Also would neo magnets change the characteristics of the stryfe motor in a way that it would overdraw and be incompatible with 3 imr batteries?

 

If you don't know what you're doing rebuilding motor cans, don't plan to be able to do it. The cans will probably cost more than whole new motors, and the armatures can be failure points on the old ones.


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#15 dangman4ever

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Posted 03 June 2017 - 05:13 PM

Instead of going the improved motor route for a performance increase, you could go with improved flywheels. According to NOBACON, the Hooligan flywheels does provide an increase of an average 20 FPS on stock Stryfe motors:

 

 

Do note that it may take 2-3 weeks for the Hooligan fly-ass wheels to arrive. At least that's how long they took for me so far. 


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#16 mykeypowell

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Posted 03 June 2017 - 06:52 PM

try honey badgers


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#17 jwasko

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Posted 03 June 2017 - 09:04 PM

try honey badgers

Honey Badgers require more current than Rhinos. and are thus an even worse suggestion than your earlier one. If you come come back suggesting Wolverines or Hellcats I swear...
 
As to making an actually helpful post: Swapping carbon brushes into RM2s is a thing that has been done and may be your best bet for IMRs. I don't know anything about bearings, but from my understanding pretty much any FC-130 motor on ebay should have compatible carbon brushes (assuming they aren't lying about them having carbon brushes in the first place, haha)
 

When buying donor motors look for FC130 motors with a plastic endbell (some, i.e. FK130 motors, have a stamped metal endbell and the brushes aren't compatible)--SSGT

 
Or go with what others have said and get an NiMH pack. It'll be safer than LiPo or even IMR. Or do you just want to use IMRs because that's what you already have?

 

 

Side note: Looking at the specs on solarbotics website, the RPM is like 1/5th the high end motors such as Rhinos. I know they aren't the best motors, but that seems impossibly low.


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#18 scruffynerfherder

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Posted 03 June 2017 - 11:40 PM

Instead of going the improved motor route for a performance increase, you could go with improved flywheels. According to NOBACON, the Hooligan flywheels does provide an increase of an average 20 FPS on stock Stryfe motors:
https://www.youtube....h?v=zaXhC8CiVKw
 
 
Do note that it may take 2-3 weeks for the Hooligan fly-ass wheels to arrive. At least that's how long they took for me so far.


I am absolutely wanting better flywheels and most likely a canted metal flywheel cage if compatible with stock stryfe motors.
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#19 scruffynerfherder

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Posted 03 June 2017 - 11:52 PM

Honey Badgers require more current than Rhinos. and are thus an even worse suggestion than your earlier one. If you come come back suggesting Wolverines or Hellcats I swear...
 
As to making an actually helpful post: Swapping carbon brushes into RM2s is a thing that has been done and may be your best bet for IMRs. I don't know anything about bearings, but from my understanding pretty much any FC-130 motor on ebay should have compatible carbon brushes (assuming they aren't lying about them having carbon brushes in the first place, haha)
 

 
Or go with what others have said and get an NiMH pack. It'll be safer than LiPo or even IMR. Or do you just want to use IMRs because that's what you already have?
 
 
Side note: Looking at the specs on solarbotics website, the RPM is like 1/5th the high end motors such as Rhinos. I know they aren't the best motors, but that seems impossibly low.


I have seen the "c-mod" with the rm2 motors.

Are you saying rm2's with carbon brushes would be better than stryfe motors with carbon brushes? Or would the stryfe motors still be more durable than the rm2 motors? Would rm2's with carbon brushes try to draw more current than 3 imr's could safely deliver?
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#20 jwasko

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Posted 04 June 2017 - 06:08 AM

I am absolutely wanting better flywheels and most likely a canted metal flywheel cage if compatible with stock stryfe motors.

If you put any heavier flywheels in there they are going to take forever to accelerate with stock motors (and probably RM2s)

 

 

I have seen the "c-mod" with the rm2 motors.

Are you saying rm2's with carbon brushes would be better than stryfe motors with carbon brushes? Or would the stryfe motors still be more durable than the rm2 motors? Would rm2's with carbon brushes try to draw more current than 3 imr's could safely deliver?

Changing the brushes will not change the current or performance. Just the durability.

Which is better? Maybe stock motors.

Stock motors with 3 or 4 IMRs:

 

RM2 motors with AA size NiMH:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5vvTKX0T5Q

 

Check the data linked in the video description. Now the RM2s are being run at a lower voltage so it's not quite a fair comparison.

 

Also in the second video he says the RM2s could be drawing 10Amps. which seems a little high for IMRs so again you may want to stick with stock motors.


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#21 scruffynerfherder

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Posted 04 June 2017 - 09:37 PM

If you put any heavier flywheels in there they are going to take forever to accelerate with stock motors (and probably RM2s)
 
 

Changing the brushes will not change the current or performance. Just the durability.
Which is better? Maybe stock motors.
Stock motors with 3 or 4 IMRs:
https://www.youtube....h?v=O5-vyZg7fyk
 
RM2 motors with AA size NiMH:
https://www.youtube....h?v=K5vvTKX0T5Q
 
Check the data linked in the video description. Now the RM2s are being run at a lower voltage so it's not quite a fair comparison.
 
Also in the second video he says the RM2s could be drawing 10Amps. which seems a little high for IMRs so again you may want to stick with stock motors.


When I finally replace flywheels I absolutely want them to be lighter than stock if possible with canted cage, or atleast no heavier than stock flywheels.
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#22 Meaker VI

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Posted 04 June 2017 - 10:03 PM

When I finally replace flywheels I absolutely want them to be lighter than stock if possible with canted cage, or atleast no heavier than stock flywheels.

 

Not sure what aftermarket wheels are lighter than stock.

 

Canted cage isn't necessarily better; it's just that the first canted cage was also very precisely made so it showed significant improvement over stock geometry. Most guys will tell you to run a straight Artifact Red or OFP cage if you want top-tear gear at present.


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#23 scruffynerfherder

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 12:40 AM

Not sure what aftermarket wheels are lighter than stock.
 
Canted cage isn't necessarily better; it's just that the first canted cage was also very precisely made so it showed significant improvement over stock geometry. Most guys will tell you to run a straight Artifact Red or OFP cage if you want top-tear gear at present.


From what I've read, the Worker plastic concave ridged flywheels seem to be the lightest, but I'm not positive if they would work right in a metal canted cage, or if those only work in stock cages or even only non canted cages?

Standard metal cage over canted metal cage? I thought everybody aggreed that canted was better? I could have easily misread though
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#24 Meaker VI

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 01:34 AM

Standard metal cage over canted metal cage? I thought everybody aggreed that canted was better? I could have easily misread though

 

DRS cages are better than some, but from what I'm reading, canted cages aren't always better. DRS cages were just the first precision cages around and that precision made a world of difference. Now that there are other precision cages, it seems that the jury is out on whether canting is useful or not. FWIW, people like Toruk seem to like Artifact Red/OFP cages


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#25 dangman4ever

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 03:09 AM

When I finally replace flywheels I absolutely want them to be lighter than stock if possible with canted cage, or atleast no heavier than stock flywheels.

 

There aren't many solid 3rd party Flywheels that are actually lighter than stock. They're generally all heavier than stock:

https://docs.google....se3g/edit#gid=0

 

I highly recommend watching this recent Nerf Youtuber's video review on the more common flywheels and their performance:

 

This google doc from the above video is an updated version of the previously linked Google docs with correct installation of the BP wheels and waffle darts:

https://docs.google....TrRc/edit#gid=0

 

From what I've read, the Worker plastic concave ridged flywheels seem to be the lightest, but I'm not positive if they would work right in a metal canted cage, or if those only work in stock cages or even only non canted cages?

Standard metal cage over canted metal cage? I thought everybody aggreed that canted was better? I could have easily misread though

Unless you're in a rush, I'd wait until more updated reviews comes out comparing all the different cages. The youtuber I linked above is supposedly planning on testing multiple cages against each other. With that said, the Artifact canted cage require Artifact flywheels. 


Edited by dangman4ever, 05 June 2017 - 03:14 AM.

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