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Jet Blaster Mod Reviewer Convention In Singapore.


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#1 Cartaya

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 09:59 AM

I attended this convention and I want to answer any questions that you may have and not leave Nerfhaven out of the loop.  A lot of people have strong feelings about Xplorer, Milsim Nerf and Nerf in general, I respect that.  I respect that things that would get banned from a NIC war, and for it's venue, rightfully so (like a camo blaster at Armageddon for example), but would be essential for a War competition at a Singapore play field.  We here in America, can play in parks legally, and I want to keep it that way too :)

I have been in serious talks with this company to possibly work with them, maybe part/full time live in Singapore to design blasters and help the company. I must say, I am Fascinated by their philosophy and attitudes towards Nerf. However, I need feedback, Honest feedback, this is a startup company that feels modders, from what I understand talking with Jason Wu, the Chief Executive, should utilize their skills to make better products, not be ignored.  Not fight amongst ourselves, but more work together.  I feel that if the NIC in America is not heard or considered properly at least somewhere in their product line, the result will be underwhelming.  I discussed that we need to consider all regions of Nerf when they make a product so that it is not one sided for one region.  And also that if a shell/blaster/kit that they make, may it be made for 14kg's out the door to limit liability, should be designed for as high as a modder can reasonably take it (for example they would make a longshot 14kg's out the door, it should be made for 32 kg's of spring force). 

But at any rate feel free.

--Cartaya





 


Edited by Cartaya, 01 November 2016 - 10:21 AM.

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#2 jwasko

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 08:09 PM

I feel like most of the prices of Xplorer's previous blaster were out of the range of what the average US nerfer is willing to spend. While I appreciate the fact that it is a relatively small market compared to, say, Hasbro's market, are they looking to reduce costs a bit to appeal to a larger audience?

 

On a related note: since Singapore nerf does have a lot of milsim (as you stated), will they continue to focus on making blasters with complex shells ? Obviously that is a product that the average nerfer cannot make for themselves. But it may be cheaper (for them and consumers) to make something functionally similar but more barebones. For an example the +bow rev3 requires a good bit less material than a +bow rev2. And even a Caliburn is way cheaper than an Xmando.

 

In short, what is being done/can be done to bring the price of their blasters more in line with their functionality (or vice versa)?


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#3 Meaker VI

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 08:29 PM

Quickish thoughts:

 

- Make blasters *capable* of handling higher forces than they are shipped with

- Make blasters easy to assemble/dissassemble

- Mil-sim *looks* are fine, but keep the *colors* primarily toyish. As you say, we play in parks and on school grounds around here, not in private arenas.

 

I don't think we modders/NIC/etc. actually infight or compete in a negative way. There's a bit of animosity between everyone and NH, but modders from any side largely collaborate and/or advise each other when possible. The problem in the US is that we're super spread out, so actually working with each other is tough. A bit of internet competition doesn't hurt anybody and drives us all to be better too. Unless they mean something else, in which case, getting advice from the community may be beneficial to their product, but possibly also detrimental to their bottom line. You'd need to pick and choose who you listen to (i.e.: Throwing it to reddit, you'd still need to pick out names you can trust - even silly/impractical things get upvotes) or you'll end up with a 'design by committe' product and that's no good. Look into the Draugr project, those guys are listening to the community but also just ignoring them if they feel the ideas won't work.


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#4 Serene Haze

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 08:34 PM

What's your price range?

 

Apologies if that is a little to direct/unprofessional of a question. (I really enjoy Xplorer's designs and kits!) I've read that Xplorer products are priced the way they are because of the manufacturing process, but one of the many

appeals to nerf, at least in the US, is a lower price point than Airsoft or Paintball.

 

I feel like Xplorer's overall limited appeal in the states is less because it is more "milsim" but more because the blasters cost almost as much as a semester's worth of community college. Especially in the US, there are many other avenues to get similar performance out of a blaster for magnitudes less.


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#5 Cartaya

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 08:34 PM

Price point: only price revealed is the Zeus 2 with a nylon sled for $135, I heard that and the full longshot kit will go for $210.  If I threw a Trooper kit and a zeus shell together non Jet Blaster mods, much much more expensive, if that is an example.  Maybe Artifact prices, maybe cheaper.  I'm not in the front door, so I don't know for sure, but i'll keep you posted.

And I told them about the need for colors for the NIC market here in America, as well as to address the needs of the Aussie Nerfers as well.

Well From what I understand is that they want to go into mass production.  They are about to release an inexpensive Longshot kit, with a Nylon Boltsled.  In my X Zeus 2 that I had in Singapore, it held up to the beefier Xplorer 7/8x5.5x.080 14 coil spring, (which, I don't care if people say it's not a true 18 kg spring, it's a good damn spring) without any stress marks.

I think that is what's gonna make them, good kits, parts, service and a connection to the customers and to "LIVE IT, NOT JUST SELL IT!" I might be making them a few pistols and a whole bunch of other stuff I have yet to tell them about,  and they have several other people in talks who are in the modding community who are getting out of the garage workshop, and helping them with the designs.... Some of them well missed and desirable.

Mum's the word with all that, but I think the shells should have come out second.

Let's just say I heard a few of them, and man are they useful... Can't say what.... but "useful"  much more than OMW.

This is just the beginning...... That's the feeling, and Singapore is rad!



 


Edited by Cartaya, 01 November 2016 - 08:46 PM.

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#6 cheerios

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 09:38 AM

Two points, I don't want to get shot and it's too expensive.

 

  • Offer colors that wont get me shot by an officer thinking I have an assault rifle (Blue, red, yellow, pink, purple, neon green, orange).
  • Something in all carbon fiber or black will end up with me on the news looking like swiss cheese.
  • Supply orange tips for barrels, at that price point its not hard to throw that safety feature in.

 

Also, if I can do the same thing for 1/3 the price it's not really viable. A SNAP and hopper combo is maybe $50 at the most, versus $210 for a kit that doesn't even get you all the way there (still need a shell). Let alone someone could grab an Artifact kit for $50 shipped, get a year worth of darts, and still be under Xplorer's price point.

 

To put this into perspective, just one of their completed blasters costs more than the equivalent of 5 months rent for me.


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#7 jwasko

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 09:47 AM

Oh, another question: any plans to implement your (Cartaya's) rifled barrel in their designs? I haven't had a chance to look into it much my self, but I've heard it mentioned a few times around the web.

Edited by jwasko, 02 November 2016 - 09:48 AM.

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#8 CaptainSlug

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 11:48 AM

 I would like to request that you try to talk to them about becoming a supplier or source for ammunition in particular. All of the current suppliers of knockoff darts are primarily offering full-length darts, which is fine for everyone else. Very few suppliers have continued to offer shorter lengths of darts that are more compatible with what NIC wars typically use. Artifact darts were close, but have gone absent.

 

Ideally I would prefer darts between 1-1/4" and 1-1/2" in total length with felt tips, since those two features are optimal for use in hoppers.

 

I don't think we modders/NIC/etc. actually infight or compete in a negative way.

Oh trust me. Plenty of people in HvZ communities hate our guts.


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#9 The2ndBluesBro

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 02:47 PM

Two points, I don't want to get shot and it's too expensive.
 

  • Offer colors that wont get me shot by an officer thinking I have an assault rifle (Blue, red, yellow, pink, purple, neon green, orange).
  • Something in all carbon fiber or black will end up with me on the news looking like swiss cheese.
  • Supply orange tips for barrels, at that price point its not hard to throw that safety feature in.
 
Also, if I can do the same thing for 1/3 the price it's not really viable. A SNAP and hopper combo is maybe $50 at the most, versus $210 for a kit that doesn't even get you all the way there (still need a shell). Let alone someone could grab an Artifact kit for $50 shipped, get a year worth of darts, and still be under Xplorer's price point.
 
To put this into perspective, just one of their completed blasters costs more than the equivalent of 5 months rent for me.

They have a hydro dip company in SG contracted to dip the x zeus 2 in whatever color and design you want for an extra fee.
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#10 Cartaya

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 02:58 PM

Yea, From what I heard they are bringing back the v2 X darts, I don't know if they are going to be rubber, vinyl, but I sorely miss the silicone V2 darts too, hopefully silicone or a softer, but not too soft material. (got a stash of 300 for my arsenal).

They partnered with a company that does hydro dipping (DIP Graphics in Singapore), but I would like to see a base color like white, blue or red.

14572943_210598162695955_556819163285090

As for Merlynn, I put it on the table but I believe they are more interested in staying with a true aluminum bore. However I did get to level and crown my own barrel on my Zeus 2 by hand with a right angle, file, deburing tool and a flat stone at the Xplorer HQ. I was able to show how much a difference it makes. I suggested a Precision bore be made available as an option, but keep the original lower cost breech kit as well.  I think a Merlynn is better than a Scar barrel, but it needs a cost effective way to make it and the bore lines have to be precise.



 


Edited by Cartaya, 02 November 2016 - 03:14 PM.

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#11 shandsgator8

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 03:59 PM

 I would like to request that you try to talk to them about becoming a supplier or source for ammunition in particular. All of the current suppliers of knockoff darts are primarily offering full-length darts, which is fine for everyone else. Very few suppliers have continued to offer shorter lengths of darts that are more compatible with what NIC wars typically use. Artifact darts were close, but have gone absent.

 

Ideally I would prefer darts between 1-1/4" and 1-1/2" in total length with felt tips, since those two features are optimal for use in hoppers.

 

Oh trust me. Plenty of people in HvZ communities hate our guts.

 

Why?


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#12 Cartaya

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 04:13 PM

Two points, I don't want to get shot and it's too expensive.

 

  • Offer colors that wont get me shot by an officer thinking I have an assault rifle (Blue, red, yellow, pink, purple, neon green, orange).
  • Something in all carbon fiber or black will end up with me on the news looking like swiss cheese.
  • Supply orange tips for barrels, at that price point its not hard to throw that safety feature in.

 

Also, if I can do the same thing for 1/3 the price it's not really viable. A SNAP and hopper combo is maybe $50 at the most, versus $210 for a kit that doesn't even get you all the way there (still need a shell). Let alone someone could grab an Artifact kit for $50 shipped, get a year worth of darts, and still be under Xplorer's price point.

 

To put this into perspective, just one of their completed blasters costs more than the equivalent of 5 months rent for me.

That's $210 for the kit "and" the shell.  Even the full Xplorer Trooper kit with the hybred metal sled is going for around $200 right now. 


Edited by Cartaya, 02 November 2016 - 04:17 PM.

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#13 Meaker VI

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 07:12 PM

*
POPULAR

Oh trust me. Plenty of people in HvZ communities hate our guts.


The next part of that quote is that there's some animosity between them and us. I don't think it impacts modding though; someone makes something cool they acknowledge it (See your work posted on Reddit). It's possible I'm working with only the friendly ones and there is a hidden group out there that really hates us and refuses to collaborate on anything (Facebook maybe?).

Why?


In the bad old days when NH was the only thing going consistently, Nerf blasters didn't have clips, and we were getting trolled by paintballers and airsofters like crazy because Nerf wasn't cool, some of them may have been stomped on by the aggressive moderation style adopted to counter the onslaught and keep our information 'pure' and more adult. Some were turned off by our difficult-to-enter forum. Those people talked to other people and we're reaping what we've sown. I don't think there is any real reason behind it other than hurt feelings and misinformation though.
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#14 Draconis

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 07:26 PM

Why, oh why, did they insist on reusing the "Zeus" name, when there is now a Hasbro Zeus that has sold an order of magnitude more pieces than anything Xplorer has built?

 

 

EDIT:  Aaaaand now I realize why nobody else gives a shit that someone took my name.


Edited by Draconis, 02 November 2016 - 07:43 PM.

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[15:51] <+Noodle> titties
[15:51] <+Rhadamanthys> titties
[15:51] <+jakejagan> titties
[15:51] <+Lucian> boobs
[15:51] <+Gears> titties
[15:51] <@Draconis> Titties.
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#15 Cartaya

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 08:38 PM

I have met both of you, I Like both of you, you really surprised me as a person and you have a cool kid Draconis,  You give me excellent feedback on FB and I "DO" listen, may not always agree, but most of the time I have found I do agree.  I just think Drac and Draconis, you 2 should have a showdown for the name, man to man, longshot to longshot, 3 falls as gentlemen and leave shaking hands that the best man won, but that's between you two. 

The X Zeus was what the original name of the Longshot reshell was called, it was before the Hasbro Zeus, but who named it first when the rival Zeus was in development, I wouldn't know for sure.  The new Retaliator shell, the XCeda, is original in name (Mine might be called the Ultra Match Siṃhapura, Can't say more than that) and I hope that uniqueness continues in their product line for name distinction as the company grows.

Great Suggestions guys, I really do appreciate it, I want to work with you not against or forced, your doing your part, thanks.

 


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#16 Serene Haze

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 11:53 AM

That's $210 for the kit "and" the shell.  Even the full Xplorer Trooper kit with the hybred metal sled is going for around $200 right now. 

 

Now this is a lot better. I could get behind this price if the performance was there.  Is there any plans for anything other than spring-powered blasters, like AEG or airguns?


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#17 Cartaya

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 12:21 PM

There is some talk of some Air/gas stuff.  They want to get into everything, I really think Aeromech, Roboman And Captian Slug should drop them a line, if they haven't already.  I asked Jason to join NH,  If not PM me and I can relay to Jet Blaster Mods.  Their philosophy appears to be "for modders, by modders" which is why I don't want the American NIC out of the loop.


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#18 Snoop Doggy doge

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 09:40 PM

-OMG HOPPERABLE DARTS OUT OF FACTORY I WOULD LOVE!!!
-We are almost done perfecting the nonmetal slug like slug, the SCS (USC cut down) which hops but otherwise, eh.
Fucking ZAO trying to hop with FVJs, *sigh*
-Also, I don't think HVZ's really hate NH, because I'm over there and it's pretty lit, at least on the east coast (New Paltz, Le Moyne, Ithica, PSU, Stony Brook, Hofstra, Binghamton and all the other groups I met were cool, and they were there to fire darts.)
-TBH I think if you get salty at other people nerfing that don't effect you, there's just something wrong lol. (Does not excuse shit that draws negative attention) 
-Not all of SG does MilSim by the way, its just those people get the most attention. For instance Hack.EXE is just playing in abandoned places with some sorta tacish gear but the goal is to fire and hit each other, while still running around with toy looking blasters. A decent portion of SG is not running FULLRAILS+OPTIC+FULLCAMO and shit, there's people that just play normally. 

Alright now to my other thoughts, 
Xplorer can be great if it offered everything in standard. I don't understand the need for those angled mags, it's propietary, expensive and impractical. Especially since you can build whatever they sell and get similar performance, but I understand what their market is geared too. They sell to China, and SG primarily. Those markets have airsoft banned, and they have markets that want to be tacticool. Nothing wrong with that, I get it. 
What I do want to see them do is make their own modularity. I think they have a prototype working on that, where you can switch out the frame and stuff. More of that needs to happen because IMO that's pretty rad. What I'd also like to see, is solid block type pieces, you know have field strips that don't suck because you have to open 20 screws to get your shit open, they can make a blaster with a few key screws and no clamshell type opening. Why? because why the fuck not?
Finally, I think if they made a rival to the Caliburn, they can sell to the US. I know there's a demand for some magfed DIY, I can understand and I think if they can get top loading AND mag fed, would be pretty rad. It's not hard, just ghetto and janky af when we do it. That'd also draw in some HVZish crowd ( I know that RandomShadow had Slug design Caliburn, and other HVZ players like mags and want to see them in DIY) 


TL;DR Xplorer make shit that is colorful, darts that can hop out of box, more modular, less propietary, and some magfed balster that can be topped off, but also accepts full length. Oh, and firearm like field strip, I fucking hate clamshell.
 


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#19 Cartaya

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 11:16 PM

Dude great suggestions.  Some slugs factory made for the USA market, you know, I want to try X zone cutdown darts in a hopper, do they hopper?  I'm with you on the angled mags, I'm down with flat mags, never needed more than those. I use Xplorer Flat 18's loaded to 15, works great, sure not so trendy, but hey I'm 41, I don't need to be :)

And field strippable, I like that idea, speaking for myself, I'm toying with a subframe design that has a chassis, I'm trying to figure out how to do that on the UM Simpapura, there are a few problems.  My current design has 6 screws in the back and everything else drops in from the back to the dart gate, only other screw is an adjustment screw and a trigger mech access door.  I wonder if I could do a release system, but I'm designing my blaster 14 kg in the box capable of 28 kg's+, and that's a lot of force on a rear spring plate, if all the sudden, the release snapped in battle, ohhh!!!!  Lawsuit time.   That's my only concern, but if I can fix that engineering problem, I'm game!

Oh and it Should be noted, Snoop here came up with the idea for my drawhandle on the Mauser-Fire prototype, just bought the spacers today, thanks bruv!
2014_0106_043339_002_zps1wgs5tyk.jpg


 


Edited by Cartaya, 05 November 2016 - 05:20 AM.

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