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#1 Justin Andrews

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 07:05 AM

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Hi.
I've been lurking here a while, and first off I'd like to thank the long time posters here, who's posts have helped me design this build. Especially the Rainbow guys for their remarkable catch mechanism.

I'd like to share a slightly different design, which is a musket style homemade designed for use in fairly authentic Medieval LARP games, rather than NERF wars and is based around the NERF Rival ammo.

The design is based around the need to use a ramrod, which is passed down the barrel, and then used to push down and prime the piston, which uses a slightly modified rainbow style catch at the rear of the barrel. The round is then dropped down the barrel, and pushed home with the ramrod. Finally a small amount of talcum powder is poured down the barrel, and a toy cap is fitted just behind the air cylinder.

When the gun is fired, the catch in the rod leaves the rainbow catch, and is caught at the end of the piston travel on a ring, this then activates the cap (making the musket go Bang!) the ball is fired along with the talc (making a plume of smoke) 

Its neither quick to load, or very long ranged, but this is what we were aiming for, as we want them to simulate the loading and effective range of a real 15th Century Arquebus/Musket.


Anyway, if people are interested, I can post some pictures of the internals later, and perhaps a video of it working.
13151610_10153970264005041_996548031108662348_n.jpg

13124859_10153970264010041_7585388487021208168_n.jpg

Trigger mechanism
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The bit what goes bang, also showing machined barrel connector
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Some of the internals on display
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Thanks 
Justin.  
 


Edited by Justin Andrews, 05 May 2016 - 07:24 AM.

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#2 xXD3V1LXx

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 08:49 AM

So I have two main questions for this design. First off where is the trigger? It looks great but isn't the trigger on 15th century muskets prominent. Speaking of cosmetics to make it look more like the time try adding a fake bayonet. Second of all why don't you put in a [k25]-[k26] and make it a plunger rod system instead of a direct push. This will make it a lot more "a((urate" and make the ball shoot a bit further. I am pretty sure muskets fired farther than 15 feet.


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#3 Langley

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 09:24 AM

So I have two main questions for this design. First off where is the trigger? It looks great but isn't the trigger on 15th century muskets prominent. Speaking of cosmetics to make it look more like the time try adding a fake bayonet. Second of all why don't you put in a k25-k26 and make it a plunger rod system instead of a direct push. This will make it a lot more "a((urate" and make the ball shoot a bit further. I am pretty sure muskets fired farther than 15 feet.


So critical for a kid who hasn't built a working homemade yet. I think you have some misconceptions about how this works.

This looks great, do you have a video of it firing?
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#4 The2ndBluesBro

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 10:08 AM

So I have two main questions for this design. First off where is the trigger? It looks great but isn't the trigger on 15th century muskets prominent. Speaking of cosmetics to make it look more like the time try adding a fake bayonet. Second of all why don't you put in a [k25]-[k26] and make it a plunger rod system instead of a direct push. This will make it a lot more "a((urate" and make the ball shoot a bit further. I am pretty sure muskets fired farther than 15 feet.


Muskets were barely accurate past 50 feet due to the lack of rifling. Also, this guy knows that this is not the easiest to use or strongest homemade. It isn't supposed to be, it's just supposed to mimic the actual muskets as best it can.
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#5 Meaker VI

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 10:49 AM

So I have two main questions for this design. First off where is the trigger?

 

Possible that his design would have had a smouldering piece of something that you touched to the powder to fire instead of the hammer trigger you're thinking of. Primers weren't invented yet, so you had to actually light the gunpowder with something. Some had huge levers that held slow matches, some you just lit with a match in your off hand.

 

Now, there are two things I think are pretty awesome here: One, that you used a wooden stock and by doing so have really made the blaster *look* authentic. More people should use wood stocks on homemades IMO. And two, that you've reverted back to the old-old days of the NIC and are using a ramrod, but you're doing it with the newest projectile they make.


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#6 Justin Andrews

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 11:59 AM

Hi, thanks for the replies.
First off, I should have said in my original post a Thank You to Boltsniper, who's work, especially the interstage concept on some of his guns has been a real inspiration.

 


So I have two main questions for this design. First off where is the trigger? It looks great but isn't the trigger on 15th century muskets prominent.

 

Indeed, and well spotted. The eventual plan is to bend, and tap, a steel rod, to replace the machine bolt acting as the trigger. This can be seen on picture 3.
The trigger bolt lifts up the small metal bar, which in turn presses the screw that is common to most rainbow catches. The idea is that this bar will also activate the mechanism of the match lock, but thats not finished yet.
 

 

Speaking of cosmetics to make it look more like the time try adding a fake bayonet.

This is a 1480 - 1500 Arquebus, slightly before bayonets were introduced. We have discussed fitting one for later weapons, but are unsure of the safety of using one in LARP combat. Its one of those "Nice, but... safety?" concepts.
 

 

Second of all why don't you put in a [k25]-[k26] and make it a plunger rod system instead of a direct push.

Not quite sure what you mean here. This gun is basically a simplified Rainbow, but using springs that are available here in the UK, and is why I gave them thanks in the Original post. I'll freely admit its not as powerful as many Rainbows however, I still have a lot to learn about making homemade Nerf guns.

 

 

This looks great, do you have a video of it firing?

Thanks Langley, I'll try and post one at the end of this post, but I have one post left for the day, so if I mess up embedding the video, I apologise as I won't be able to fix it till tomorrow.
(New poster rules)

 

 

Now, there are two things I think are pretty awesome here: One, that you used a wooden stock and by doing so have really made the blaster *look* authentic. More people should use wood stocks on homemades IMO. And two, that you've reverted back to the old-old days of the NIC and are using a ramrod, but you're doing it with the newest projectile they make.

Cheers Meaker VI, the Nerf Rival ammo is what got me especially interested, as its pretty much the right size for "some" historical musket balls. The organisers of the event this will be used also stipulated that it must work and act like an authentic Match Lock, so using the ram rod to prime the piston became the right choice.

Again with the wood (which is cheap construction pine wood, dyed and sealed with shellac) which helps make it look the part.

I can't attach a video, sorry to say, and I don't have them uploaded to somewhere like Youtube.
So if no one objects, I'll post the links to the ones I put up on the groups Facebook page.


This one had to be fired twice as the cap did'nt go off on the first shot... (yes they do take a long time to load!  )
https://www.facebook...53937242895041/


An earlier PVC prototype
https://www.facebook...53888302770041/


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#7 Spud Spudoni

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 05:21 PM

It is so refreshing to see someone build a homemade with the main focus on cosmetics and mechanics rather than performance for a change. Thank you for this, and this truly unique priming system. I may be misinterpreting this, but you use a ramrod to push the plunger back and catch it, then place the ball in the barrel with another ramrod and fire. Is where the rival ball sits, and the plunger tube two different areas of the blaster? Does the Rival ball sit on the plunger head, in the plunger tube, or does it sit right outside of it, in a pressure fitted barrel?

 

Again fantastic work. If you haven't already, I'd recommend you enter this into Aeromech's homemade contest here: http://nerfhaven.com...riteup-contest/

 

EDIT: Did you make that chair in the pictures?


Edited by Spud Spudoni, 05 May 2016 - 09:56 PM.

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#8 Remzak

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 06:30 AM

This looks good. I am suprised this could have enough power to launch a rivals ball. What is the internal diameter of the barrel?

Edited by Remzak, 06 May 2016 - 06:53 AM.

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#9 Justin Andrews

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 07:14 AM

It is so refreshing to see someone build a homemade with the main focus on cosmetics and mechanics rather than performance for a change. Thank you for this, and this truly unique priming system. I may be misinterpreting this, but you use a ramrod to push the plunger back and catch it, then place the ball in the barrel with another ramrod and fire. Is where the rival ball sits, and the plunger tube two different areas of the blaster? Does the Rival ball sit on the plunger head, in the plunger tube, or does it sit right outside of it, in a pressure fitted barrel?

 

Again fantastic work. If you haven't already, I'd recommend you enter this into Aeromech's homemade contest here: http://nerfhaven.com...riteup-contest/

 

EDIT: Did you make that chair in the pictures?

The Nerf Rival ball sits in an air tight section of the barrel, the plunger tube is its own section just behind the barrel. There is no way the ball can touch the piston, as there is a rainbow style catch between the piston and the ball. This catch is an odd one I know, but its there to stop the ramrod being accidentally fired out of the gun should something go wrong during priming the piston.

I did not make the chair, it was a gift. Though I have made medieval-esque chairs in the past.

 

This looks good. I am suprised this could have enough power to launch a rivals ball. What is the internal diameter of the barrel?

Some Dimensions for you.

Inner barrel for the ball is a brass tube roughly 23mm ID, with a machined 21mm airtight seat for the ball pressed into the barrel.

Air chamber - 38mm OD, 35mm ID, and is Mild Steel, I'm looking at using Stainless Steel at the moment.
Piston has a 225mm stroke, using a spring 290mm long with a minimum recommended compression of 60(ish)mm, roughly 30lbs fully compressed.
(spring is from Raymond Associated Springs, as McMaster springs are not available in the UK)

I hope that answers some of your questions Remzak.
 


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#10 Aeromech

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 11:19 PM

Great job mate. I love it to pieces. I've wanted to do something like this for a long time, and I probably will this summer. The arms-racy nature of homemades is tossed aside for these amazingly fun and fulfilling projects. It's art. God, I love this.

 

And to all those calling me a turncoat on realistic looking blasters: It is to be used in a controlled environment and therefore I say it's good to go. I've made an all-wood medieval crossbow for a client last summer for Larping purposes that fired BBB rockets. And now I need to make a single shot musket.


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#11 ArcAngelXVI

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Posted 10 May 2016 - 05:14 PM

This is certainly one of the most unique builds I've seen on here with a decidedly non-performance oriented goal. The choice of Rival HIRs over standard micros is a really nice touch considering what you've built this for, and the whole thing looks like a very well done functional prop.

All compliments aside, I'd really appreciate seeing some sort of reloading and firing demo when you get the chance. It might be cumbersome, but some of the most pointlessly difficult designs are also the most fun to use.


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#12 Carbon

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Posted 20 May 2016 - 11:07 AM

A little late to the party on this one, but I wanted to add to the chorus of how much I love this blaster...it'd be absolutely perfect in a round of Civil War. I need to build one.

 

The Nerf Rival ball sits in an air tight section of the barrel, the plunger tube is its own section just behind the barrel. There is no way the ball can touch the piston, as there is a rainbow style catch between the piston and the ball. This catch is an odd one I know, but its there to stop the ramrod being accidentally fired out of the gun should something go wrong during priming the piston.

 

Clever. I was wondering how the ramrod wouldn't shove the ball all the way into the plunger tube.


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#13 Justin Andrews

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 04:17 AM

Thanks for the replies.

I've been away in the workshop improving the design, and while not entirely NERF related, I thought people might be interested in the working cap gun "flint" lock I've started developing for the musket above. It fires the sort of plastic caps you can easily get anywhere for toy guns. (I was not very happy with the cap firing mechanism being in the barrel)

This is the first engineering prototype, and while it fits the musket, I need to make the design a bit smaller, and look a lot nicer.

The grub screw in the sear not only holds the end of the spring but is what the trigger bar in the stock engages with to both trip the flintlock, and activate the Rainbow catch in the barrel.
The spring is made from a length of thin spring steel wire, heat treated in a couple of places to allow me to bend it (using a basic blow torch) its bend cold where I need it to still be a spring so its wrapped cold around the hammer axle, and the sear pivot.


Feel free to copy any part of this design if you want to try something similar. :)

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13335778_10154022523400041_7557353181984340970_n.jpg


Edited by Justin Andrews, 31 May 2016 - 04:22 AM.

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#14 Hedningen

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Posted 01 June 2016 - 08:50 PM

This is a truely gorgeous piece of kit. As another larper who's been interested in more attractive firearms for games, I'd love to see more details on the construction.

Any thoughts to try the same for pistol-sized weapons? Seems like the nect step, although I'm not entirely familiar with late 15th/early 16th century firearms.
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#15 Justin Andrews

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 01:51 AM

There is no evidence for pistols (that I've found) for the 15th Century, and precious little for the 16th, their popularity takes off in the 17th possibly due to improvements in metallurgy around that time.

However depending on the LARP, that doesn't matter.  (Cry Havoc, the game this is built for is more re-enactment LARP set in 1615 so no pistols, I wanted one for my character, but could find no evidence that they were readily available so no dice... Rifles and breach loading Arquebus had been developed by then, but no pistols! So I might get silly, if I get the time, and make a NERF Ribault instead... ;) )

Still yes I am planning on making pistols. I'd like to get the size of the lock down first.


With some luck, I'll be able to take some construction photo's for you over the weekend.


Edited by Justin Andrews, 02 June 2016 - 01:56 AM.

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