57 replies to this topic

[Ice Nine]

Thanks for writing this up, Cheerios. This looks pretty appealing beyond the black foam color. Has anyone tried doing either one of Zorn's "optimal wyes" or one of the versions that I did, with teflon? I've never had to cornstarch darts and at wars I haven't had feeding problems with any of those wyes on regular silicone darts. I'm hoping to order some relatively soon, so if not, I can give it a try.

 

I meant seriously injured, basically a justification for banning them. A couple bleeding welts are just part of the nerf experience IMO.

 

You've never hosted a Nerf war and you've been to, like, two of them. I don't think you are speaking from the point of power from which you think you are. I don't know why everyone jerks off over these pain and injury things. When I go skiing or mountain biking I don't get wet and brag about twisting an ankle or scraping up my legs. I certainly don't get enjoyment out of putting bloody welts on other people, either.

[The2ndBluesBro]

You've never hosted a Nerf war and you've been to, like, two of them. I don't think you are speaking from the point of power from which you think you are. I don't know why everyone jerks off over these pain and injury things. When I go skiing or mountain biking I don't get wet and brag about twisting an ankle or scraping up my legs. I certainly don't get enjoyment out of putting bloody welts on other people, either.

I never said I enjoyed getting or giving welts. Pain isn't enjoyable. And the amount of wars I've been to has nothing to do with my knowledge of the pain inflicted by stefans.

[Pineapplepies]

This looks pretty appealing beyond the black foam color.

I know where to find things like with with different colors, only problem is that they are plastic tipped but if you are fine with that here they are. http://www.ebay.com/...a0AAOSw3ydV3LHt

[The2ndBluesBro]

I know where to find things like with with different colors, only problem is that they are plastic tipped but if you are fine with that here they are. http://www.ebay.com/...a0AAOSw3ydV3LHt

Those are FVJs, a different kind of dart. They are good as well but not really as good for shooting from heavily modded blasters or homemades.

[TheNerfZilla]

I have seen both of these on Amazon, and they appear to have solid rubber heads. Not as squishy as these black ones, but still better than FVJs.
http://www.amazon.co...019PIYYRW?psc=1
http://www.amazon.co...VNZRTYW8DEGY2H4

[Pineapplepies]

I have seen both of these on Amazon, and they appear to have solid rubber heads. Not as squishy as these black ones, but still better than FVJs.
http://www.amazon.co...019PIYYRW?psc=1
http://www.amazon.co...VNZRTYW8DEGY2H4

In no way do I mean to be a jerk or rude to you, but I would recommend to get those off of eBay by searching nerf darts bullet head and scrolling down. The price of them gets down to about $4 for 100 and that is about three times less than the ones on Amazon.http://www.ebay.com/...a0AAOSw3ydV3LHt

Edited by Pineapplepies, 18 January 2016 - 10:11 AM.

[Pineapplepies]

Those are FVJs, a different kind of dart. They are good as well but not really as good for shooting from heavily modded blasters or homemades.

Yeah, I know they are like Fvjs. I was pointing out if you want a aerodynamic dart and need to fire it out of high powered thing then those are the darts to go with, along with them being more brightly colored.

[The2ndBluesBro]

Yeah, I know they are like Fvjs. I was pointing out if you want a aerodynamic dart and need to fire it out of high powered thing then those are the darts to go with, along with them being more brightly colored.

Oh, ok. So are those better than the china darts? I would think they would be lighter but I haven't weighed them so I'm not sure. I may order some if someone's tested them in the same way as these to make sure they fire from hoppers from homemades as straight as regular Stefans.

[Pineapplepies]

Oh, ok. So are those better than the china darts? I would think they would be lighter but I haven't weighed them so I'm not sure. I may order some if someone's tested them in the same way as these to make sure they fire from hoppers from homemades as straight as regular Stefans.

Yeah, in a way they are, Walcoms7 did a video on them and I believe they have equal if not more weight(since they head has more volume) They lowest price I have found them for is around the same of the lowest you can find Fvj's for, so these may be a alternative.(Walcoms7's review is on YouTube, look under videos and it should be near the top, although the ones he reviewed were the ones on Amazon. They still are the same dart though)

Edit:Sorry, I didn't read what you said about them firing straight out of a gun until now. Walcom did fire them out of a Longstrike with a Berzerker tank in his review and I believe they fired well.

Edited by Pineapplepies, 18 January 2016 - 10:25 AM.

[TheNerfZilla]

Edit: Much delayed double post, my bad. The curse of mobile devices.

Edited by TheNerfZilla, 18 January 2016 - 02:50 PM.

[jwasko]

 I would think they would be lighter but I haven't weighed them so I'm not sure.

According to http://www.bayareane...ugust-2015.html, FVJs are heavier than these ACCs.

 

But these that Pineapplepies linked aren't your typical FVJs. FVJs have a head basically shaped like elites, with a squared-off head, whereas these have a round, pointed head.

[The2ndBluesBro]

According to http://www.bayareane...ugust-2015.html, FVJs are heavier than these ACCs.

 

But these that Pineapplepies linked aren't your typical FVJs. FVJs have a head basically shaped like elites, with a squared-off head, whereas these have a round, pointed head.

Are they as aerodynamic? That could be the reason for the discrepancy. 

[jwasko]

Are they as aerodynamic? That could be the reason for the discrepancy. 

Are what as aerodynamic as what?

 

FVJs are roughly as aerodynamic as elites since they are shaped the same...but they are heavier which (from what I've read) leads to lower ranges (compared to elites) with low-powered blasters. On the other hand, their flight may be a bit more stable out of a high velocity blaster since they have heavier tips (compared to elites and/or other, lighter darts).

 

ACCs and these other darts...I've seen them referred to as "Vinyl Tipped Nipple" darts...have a much more aerodynamic shape since the front end is pointed rather than flat like an elite (or a slug-type stefan for that matter). Looks like the VTNs are lighter so they may not work as well as ACCs out of high velocity blasters, but no way to know for sure but to try.

 

One thing the ACCs have going is it seems like they have a short stem. This means that a) most of the weight is in the actual tip (better for flight stability) and b.) they will bend easier when going through a hopper.

Edited by jwasko, 19 January 2016 - 09:41 AM.

[Pineapplepies]

Looks like the VTNs are lighter so they may not work as well as ACCs out of high velocity blasters, but no way to know for sure but to try.
 
One thing the ACCs have going is it seems like they have a short stem. This means that a) most of the weight is in the actual tip (better for flight stability) and they will bend easier when going through a hopper.

Again, not trying to be rude but above I said Walcoms7 on YouTube did do a review on this type of dart and it worked fine out of his berserk long strike, so yes they do fly as a well as a Fvj but are as aerodynamic as a ACC or bullseye(As 2ndbluesbros proposed and I liked)
Edit:If there was a comparison between the bulleyes and the cut down Fvn darts to slugs and stefans, it would be stefans to Acc, and Fvns being a more aerodynamic slug

Edited by Pineapplepies, 19 January 2016 - 08:13 AM.

[jwasko]

Again, not trying to be rude but above I said Walcoms7 on YouTube did do a review on this type of dart and it worked fine out of his berserk long strike, so yes they do fly as a well as a Fvj but are as aerodynamic as a ACC or bullseye(As 2ndbluesbros proposed and I liked)
Edit:If there was a comparison between the bulleyes and the cut down Fvn darts to slugs and stefans, it would be stefans to Acc, and Fvns being a more aerodynamic slug

 

Alright, fine, I'll listen to Walcom's yammering

 

Anyway, yeah they do seem lo launch well in his video. I would still want to actually see how they fly over long distances, and out of a homemade springer. For instance do they seem to "float" after a while, do they suddenly drop, or do they maintain their velocity nicely like well made hot-glue domes with heavy weights?

 

Edit: To be clear, I have nothing against Walcom. He seems quite knowledgable and likable, I just don't always enjoy his videos (or any other videos with a lot of chatter, particularly when I just want to see the result or a need a single tidbit of info).

Edited by jwasko, 19 January 2016 - 01:17 PM.

[DjOnslaught]

 
Alright, fine, I'll listen to Walcom's yammering
 
Anyway, yeah they do seem lo launch well in his video. I would still want to actually see how they fly over long distances, and out of a homemade springer. For instance do they seem to "float" after a while, do they suddenly drop, or do they maintain their velocity nicely like well made hot-glue domes with heavy weights?

That's why I don't watch more of his videos, but of the few I have there's actually tidbits of solid info in them.

May have to watch this video also actually.

[Pineapplepies]

Alright, fine, I'll listen to Walcom's yammering
 
Anyway, yeah they do seem lo launch well in his video. I would still want to actually see how they fly over long distances, and out of a homemade springer. For instance do they seem to "float" after a while, do they suddenly drop, or do they maintain their velocity nicely like well made hot-glue domes with heavy weights?

Which darts are you talking about, Fvn or bullseyes/ACCs? If you are talking about the darts this post is about, Acc darts, then they fly very straight for the most part. Along with that, these are the most accurate and farthest flying darts I have when fired out of a Titan too so that answers the high powered blaster question.

[jwasko]

Which darts are you talking about, Fvn or bullseyes/ACCs? If you are talking about the darts this post is about, Acc darts, then they fly very straight for the most part. Along with that, these are the most accurate and farthest flying darts I have when fired out of a Titan too so that answers the high powered blaster question.

Since the topic got derailed a bit, I was talking about FVNs aka the ones in Walcom's video

[limegreennerf]

If the one Pineapplepies showed the link to are the same as the ones I got from the link below I can tell you that they are not the same as ACCurate darts.  The red ones have tips that are solid and hard.  Not something I want to be shooting at little kids.

 

Here are what I bought to test.  

http://www.ebay.com/...b0AAOSwDNdV6TYc

 

If anyone wants me to cut them open to show just let me know.  

 

LGN

[KaneTheMediocre]

Got some of these "accurate" china darts in the mail today.  I can confirm that the heads are quite soft, possibly even softer than the sillydomes we use, and the slightly pointier tip compresses easily enough that I can't imagine it being a problem.

 

 The weight is almost exactly the same as old-school streamlines at 1.3g.  

 

The heads are NOT well centered, and tear off with similar force to the silicone heads we use.

 

Testing for flight characteristics is going to be very hard with the black foam.  I'd expect these to be stable at higher muzzle energies than current MHA darts / sillydomes due to greater weight (1.3g vs 0.85g), but poorly centered heads could make them worse, as could the improved aerodynamics of the pointier head.

 

Initial impressions (tested with the Plusblow 5N) are

 

1 Huzzah! the length is close enough to feed in my super-picky feed mech.

2. More stable and farther flight than elite suctions from the short barrel plusblow 5N, but

3. Less stable than sillydomes from the long barrel plusblow 5N.

 

Really I need to try them cut down for a more fair comparison with sillydomes, but limited daylight etc.  Even if the results are the same with the shorties, there may be some promise here if the head alignment issue is fixed.

I know everyone wants to know about how they hopper, but hoppers are just a bucket full of variables I'm not ready to get into just yet.  I will, and it IS important, since basically all of the behavior that people don't like about sillydomes is only a problem with hoppers.

[Pineapplepies]

If the one Pineapplepies showed the link to are the same as the ones I got from the link below I can tell you that they are not the same as ACCurate darts.  The red ones have tips that are solid and hard.  Not something I want to be shooting at little kids.
 
Here are what I bought to test.  
http://www.ebay.com/...b0AAOSwDNdV6TYc
 
If anyone wants me to cut them open to show just let me know.  
 
LGN

If you could test how well they work out of a variety of blasters with some being cut down and some being full that would be great. Along with that, I will try and test the same blasters as you with the ACCs I have if you don't have any of the ACCurates/Bullseyes. Finally, If we end up both testing the darts tell me how long you cut them down, what blasters you use, and what angle did you fire them at.

[Birch]

I received 400 china darts about a week ago, but I waited to post this so I could get to know them well.

 

1. These darts are cheap, very cheap. But, as your parents always tell you, you get what you pay for. That being said, these darts are far better than most other china darts I've seen. About 2-3 tips from every ten dart pack were poorly attached and required re-glueing by me. The tips are attached pretty well. The glue is strong, and unlike most other china darts, the foam is is strong too.

 

2. These darts are safe. The tip is extremely pointy and quite heavy (imagine a 3/0 fishing weight or steel slingshot), but also extremely squishy and rubbery. 

 

3. The darts, at least the good ones, perform quite well. I use slug darts made from a thinner batch of beige or rod XL foam with 3/0 tin weights and felt pads. My slugs perform better than most other slugs, and these china darts somehow perform even better. They have a higher muzzle velocity, travel further, and drop off much later. Their trajectory is a sideways j shape rather than a normal arch.

Edited by Birch, 31 January 2016 - 09:57 AM.

[KaneTheMediocre]

So I've done some more experimentation with hoppers and shortened (~36mm, same as MHA sillydomes) acc darts.  

The best reliability I was able to achieve with these and a regular PVC wye hopper was about 75% with a PullSCRT, PETG barrel, AND cornstarch. And there were a lot of double feeds as well.  The only exception is a hoppered PETG blowgun, which worked just fine
 

Without cornstarch none of my blasters fed these darts more than 50% of the time.

 

The fit is fairly tight, and will not work with CPVC barrels under normal circumstances.  The best fit I could find was sch80 x 1/2" PVC, which in some cases was a nice springer fit, and in other cases fell right through.  So, finding barrels for these is tricky, but not impossible.

Used with an RSCB, I found that these darts "swirl out" much worse than MHA sillydomes, but still not as bad as Elite streamlines.  Again using the PullSCRT, which shoots sillydomes fairly straight at about 200 fps, the ACC darts swerved dramatically almost every shot.  This was very surprising to me, as I'd thought the heavier weight would make them better at high power than the sillydomes.  Basically the instability from the ACC darts from my ~200 fps blaster is about what I'd see with MHA sillydomes out of a 250 fps hoppered blaster or elites streamlines out of a 150 fps blaster.  

Even shooting in my own house I couldn't find the damn things because they are black.

So, I can't even begin to recommend these as hopper darts.  As stock dart replacements they are definitely an improvement in terms of stability, but still not good enough for most homemade or even powerfully modded blasters.

 

 At .05c each in fairly small quantities they are the cheapest nerf darts I've ever seen, so if you play in a contained space with more-than-stock-but-still-not-too-powerful blasters these could be a great deal for you.  Or, if you just wanted to roll exclusively with hoppered blowguns, these are the most economical darts I know of, and they'll get the job done.

 

[orangeparkour]

Did you try them with a 35 degree hopper?

[KaneTheMediocre]

I don't have any of them anymore, I gave away all the ones I printed because I didn't like them for a variety of reasons.