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Brass Vs. Other Barrels

Is Brass Evil

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#1 nosferatu

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Posted 03 August 2004 - 05:23 PM

Are brass barrel mods taking the fun out of nerf? I heard some opinions on this in the thread about Apoc, and I like to hear what more people think about brass barrels, and why their opinion is what it is.

I for one think that brass isn't really worth the expense (sp?) unless you're putting it on some amazing loser rifle like the sm5k, but I have to ship it from Chicago to MA, so that may just be me. I also don't think that it's nessacary to have it on every weapon, because most shots aren't happening from much more than 20-40 feet away, and those ranges are definatley reachable on just about every gun with much ceaper and more acessible cpvc. I also think that cpvc is a much easier material to work with.

That's my opinion, but I'd like to hear what the NIC thinks.
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#2 ompa

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Posted 03 August 2004 - 05:32 PM

Here's my opinion:

-I try to brass every weapon I get, as it's one of the best materials I can get a hold of. It fits my darts rather nicely.

-SCH 80 pvc works great with my darts to, so lately I've begun to swtich to that. I also plan to use that material to make multiple x-bow barrels for faster reload time. Hopefully it should work- I have big pockets.

-CPVC is a super-tight fit on my darts, so I tend to avoid that.

Overall, I don't think brass is ruining the game itself- there are alternatives to using brass, such as PETG and sch80 pvc, that could work well, and are considerably cheaper. I think the only pain-in-the-ass part would be to make all new darts. I don't think brass has ruined it, it's just left some people in the game of nerf behind. Then again, sch40pvc with weighted stock micros works great too...

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#3 Jangadance

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Posted 03 August 2004 - 06:06 PM

The problem I see here is not just a brass vs. PVC problem. It's a problem of allowing long range, high ROF weapons to be used. I'm all for it, but it's up to each group individually. It's much like paintball, depending on what style of play you are looking for, you buy different gear and make sure your friends do the same. Someone who actually plays will probably know what they're talking about more than I.

Last week I had a Blast-a-balls only 8 man "CTF shotties" round, Halo inspired. It was a lot of fun, and having a PETG'd AT3k would ruin the balance there. So, depending on what kind of game you're playing, make the choice of what type of weapons to use.
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#4 Evil

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Posted 03 August 2004 - 07:33 PM

I'll just throw out something that I've really been thinking about recently about this topic. When I Nerf, their are two things that I think make the game worth playing. The first thing, of course, is shooting someone. That's fun. But number two is the dodging aspect that makes Nerf so much cooler.

Like a great outfielder in baseball who thrives to rob the homerun, I would much rather dodge a dart with some amazing move, than hit someone with a mediocre shot.

What brass in general does to most (air) guns, is take this element out by jacking up the velocity and range to obscene measures.

Wait, before some call me a wuss or a cop out, I'll say this... outplaying someone is not that hard, air gun or not, and this is not about unfair advantages. I don't mind a welt. What this is about, is removing one of the best assets the game has.

Call me a purist. ^_^

Edited by Evil, 03 August 2004 - 07:36 PM.

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#5 Warlock

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Posted 03 August 2004 - 08:23 PM

You know, I think it'd be kinda dumb not to change considering the people that that we nerf with in this area are slowly making the change from PVC to brass. I already know Evil's gonna argue this till he gets blue in the face, but all I'm saying is that as the demographics change, so should we all. Sure you can try to out play them, but it's harder to do so when you're out gunned.

I have no problem with single barrelled brass guns because then you have a whole reloading situation. But multi barrelled is a lil rough to play against. Given if it were a Blastfire or Hornet then it should be brassed due to the lack of range. But I think 1500s and AT2ks are a lil bit of overkill.
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#6 okto

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Posted 03 August 2004 - 08:23 PM

evil has an interesting point. my general attitude towards "anti-brassers" is quit whining, because their argument is "it's an unfair adavantage, bla bla bla". brass is freely available, it is NOT an unfair advantage.
but evil raises a good argument.

my personal opinion is the more it resembles reality (real guns) while preserving the low price, accessibility, and safety of nerf, it's all good. so long range is good. the gun actually hitting what you aim at, the use of sights rather than snap shooting, being shot causing pain, i like all that.

for indoor battles (which i also enjoy), i definitely think there needs to be a limit. a brassed SS2 at ten feet could hurt quite a bit, and there's just no reason in such close quarters to have such a high-powered weapon.

some of the same people also complain about weapons with too high a rate of fire. now, i've seen lots of guns from these people, and the things i see are worship of crossbows, and a dearth of magazines/bolt breeches/rotating barrels. to me, if you choose a weapon with an inherently low RoF, then do nothing to ameliorate it, you don't have a lot of room to complain when someone shows up with a PVC'ed SM1500 or an AT3k.

'themed' wars have a place, like janga's ball gun one. it can be fun to have a low performance weapon and have to rely only on your skill and not on the gun's at all. but other than that, if you haven't specified 'springers only' or 'single shot weapons only' or something similar, complaining about someone having a gun that is an unfair advantage is just that, complaining.
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#7 nosferatu

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Posted 03 August 2004 - 09:12 PM

Good points all around. Some great opinions. A general theme that I'm seeing is that people think that brass is ok, but not on weapons that don't need it. Warlock pirticularly mentioned the sm1500 and the at2k. I have to agree with this point. I have a brass maxshot and I love it, but my at2k is cpvc, and I wouldn't even think of switching it to brass. It's just not nessacary on a gun like that.
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#8 ShortShit

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Posted 03 August 2004 - 09:19 PM

but if brass and say: cpvc are both just as accessible to someone, and brass fits your darts better, why does it even matter.
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#9 cxwq

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Posted 03 August 2004 - 09:51 PM

Two words: pistol war

Seriously, this has been going on for as long as there have been new guns coming out every year and new people working on cool mods for them. If you're going to be a purist, why draw the line arbitrarily between PVC and brass? Just ban mods completely and the game becomes much more intense. Believe me, some of the most fun I've had nerfing was in a semi-large living room with completely stock guns.

I'd suggest that you narrow down the weapons/mods allowed in your wars except that you don't want to make it too restrictive and alienate half the people who are interested. Nerf isn't big enough as an organized sport to have all sorts of weapon classes doing battle in completely seperate wars.

A good compromize is the pistol war or the springers war or the john woo war or whatever the fuck you want to do. Just declare that the first skirmish after lunch will be a limited class war and try to bring enough extra guns so that the newbies who only have brass pump guns can borrow a pistol and play with you guys. Share your love for the sport's roots with the new kids, they'll appreciate it.
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#10 ShortShit

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Posted 03 August 2004 - 09:55 PM

Share your love for the sport's roots with the new kids, they'll appreciate it.

Awwwww, Kevin got all muuushhhyyy on uuussss! ^_^
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#11 Evil

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Posted 03 August 2004 - 10:33 PM

The general consensus (sp?) that I have received from my stance on the topic from people on and off the forums is that I do not like the idea of being outgunned.

Let's get it straight, for the most part the people I've been playing with for years have been used to being outgunned, due mostly to the clans we've played against. And as I gradually turned away from integrations and to a more classic setup, I find that being outgunned isn't even a problem. All you have to do is alter your style.

So as some call for an evolution of the guns, I'll stick with an evolution of style.

But I'll never tell anyone, within reason, that they cannot use a certain gun.

EDIT: Pistol wars were some of the better rounds of this summer's Apoc

Edited by Evil, 03 August 2004 - 10:37 PM.

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#12 okto

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 12:07 AM

Believe me, some of the most fun I've had nerfing was in a semi-large living room with completely stock guns.

too true...that was middle skool for me.
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#13 TimberwolfCY

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 03:24 AM

I have multiple viewpoints on this.

1) I don't think that brassing/modding guns is too big a deal, some reasons of which I'll address later. The big problem I have is that people (at least that I've seen on the internet) bust out with these normal guns that have been modded with these uber-long brass/pvc barrels that frankly...look like crap, and seriously look intimidating. To me, it puts Nerf in the catagory of dodgeball in middle school or something. Two people pick teams, and one gets annihalated (sp?) because the other team got stuck with all the dorks: its massive imbalance and intimidation. A lot of this is that no, not all people have access to saws, brass, and the various tools one needs to do all the work (I'm a perfect example). On the other hand...

2) Skill is a big part of Nerf. If a certain gun isn't working for you, switch or borrow someone else's, or change your style. At SENO, I had a serious range deficiency; I was using an unmodded PC with stock darts against modded SM1500's, AT2k's and BnAs (besides many others) that could hit from 80 to 100+ feet. My PC? Um, 50, if I'm lucky. Even when I was close enough to engage, I usually emptied the clip to hit= massive reload time. Solution? Change of style, and working with others; I hung back and waited for a fault in my opponent. I stayed in the open to eliminate ambushes and more easily dodge shots. I let losers go first so I could cover them up close. I rushed more often. I used cover better. I moved more quickly. I even switched to my PVC modded LnL to help compensate in one fight. Its all how you play. Also...

3) In agreeance with others, modding isn't that hard to do, except barrel changes. People simply need to get off their asses and try it once. I took my NF out of box, which got about 40-50' and removed the air restrictors and a couple other things, and boosted it to at least 65'. Took me about 15 minutes, maybe. Finally...

4) As was stated earlier, I don't have any problem with people multi-barreling/breeching/etc. their guns in addition to other mods. This is mainly because its so easy to rush with an afformentioned PC and unload on them while they unload. Many of this would consider a PC cheap compared to a refined weapon like an Xbow, but when the Xbow is multibarreled or whatever, the kill suddenly isn't so cheap, because its primary advantage is at least partially nullified.

In conslusion, I don't think brassing or mods in general is a bad thing at all. Again, I have a problem with the appearence of them, and the possible problem with acceptance by rookies at wars, but other than that, I don't really care. So yep, my 2C.

P.S. - sorry for the novel, I wanted to fulfill the "why" request. Cool thread.
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#14 okto

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 04:06 AM

nicely said. but...you don't have a hacksaw?? i'm tempted to buy you one on general principle.

i agree particularly with your statement on PC tactics; certain guns require the employ of unique tactics to be effective, and concordantly, a certain tactic will want a certain gun. if your weapon is a PVC'd SM1500, grab someone with a brassed SS2 or maxshot to clear out some of the enemy before you get in range. if all you have is a nitefinder, you'll probably have to be sneaky. if you have an automatic weapon, you make an excellent flag defender for CTF or frontal assault against Xbows.

with a good mix of different guns, you can have a fairly well-balanced offense. for the sake of discussion. let's have an Xbow, a RF20, and an AT3k:
the loser (Xbow) gets first shot, as he has the longest range and greatest accuracy. his RoF tends to be low, so he needs to be defended by the assault rifles (AT) and the squad automatic weapon (RF20) in the event of a rush or flank ambush. then the higher RoF weapons can charge, flank, or ambush the opposing team, preferably paired or grouped for a mix of longer range/faster fire weapons.

of course there are a zillion more details that can be gone into, but this really isn't a tactics thread, so i'll spare you. the point is that all weapons can be mixed on the field simultaneously, provided of course that we don't have three people with Xbows and RF20s and the rest with nitefinders.

if all those who have decently large arsenals bring several weapons, one or more from each category (automatic, single shot long range, sidearm, unmodded, etc.), and determine which to use based on what other weapons show up, most of these problems can be avoided.

Edited by okto, 04 August 2004 - 04:09 AM.

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#15 Formerly Sane

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 02:11 PM

If one person does a mod and you choose not to, its not the other person's fault that their weapon is more superior, its your fault for not taking the oppportunity. Now if materials are limited and you cannot fully take advantage of all of your weapon's potential, then make up for it in your tactics and strategies.
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