12 replies to this topic

[shandsgator8]

So I did a little research about possible Stryfe motor replacements. Apparently there isn't a strong consensus like there is with the Rapidstrike. I did come across the recommendation of putting "cade" motors in the Stryfe.

 

Does anyone know which "cade" motors these are? Stockade or Barricade? Or are they the same?

 

Thanks.

Edited by shandsgator8, 07 December 2015 - 04:35 PM.

[The2ndBluesBro]

They mean barricade motors but there are better options now use falcon 130's (or 180's) or MTB rhinos (from containment crew). You may be able to buy either of them from people on nerfhaven. Containment crew does have them in stock, though. 

Edited by The2ndBluesBro, 07 December 2015 - 05:43 PM.

[shandsgator8]

They mean barriade motors but there are better options now use falcon 130's (or 180's) or mtb rhinos (from containment crew). You may be able to buy either of them from people on nerfhaven. Containment crew does have them in stock.  though. 

 

Thanks for the advice. Do you know how well MTB Rhinos work with voltage lower than 12V like a 2S lipo or 6-8 cell NiMH?

 

EDIT: Per they're not ideal with 2s setups, but I need to do more research.

Edited by shandsgator8, 07 December 2015 - 07:23 PM.

[The2ndBluesBro]

No I don't really work with flywheel blasters but they should be fine as long as the voltage is close to 12V. 

[jwasko]

In order to get maximum dart velocity (110 to 120FPS) off of flywheels, your motors need to be spinning over 25,000RPM. According to this motor database, Rhinos/Falcons spin 33,300RPM at 11.1 Volts.

 

At 2S Lipo or 6 cell NiMH (7.4Volts) that'd only be 22,200RPM

At 8 cell NiMH (9.6Volts) that'd be 28,800RPM.

 

You could probably run them on ~9.6Volts and do okay, but they will be better at the prescribed 11.1-12Volts. If you want to use 2s LiPo you might as well keep the stock motors rather than spend the money on Rhinos.

[shandsgator8]

Makes sense, thanks for the info.

[shandsgator8]

After doing more research, I still don't know which motor set up is best. Everyone keeps talking about FPS of darts leaving the blaster, but from seeing online videos of 3S Stryfes and Rapidstrikes, firing a Stryfe with stock motors and 4 Trustfires, and using a 6 cell NiMH eneloop battery pack in a Rapidstrike, it seems like trying to get maximum dart velocity sacrifices dart accuracy and precision. Some of the Koosh (Gen 3) darts or Nerf Elite darts shoot out of a 3S flywheel blaster like a Titan shooting a Nerf streamline, ie the dart moving so fast, its aerodynamics hinder its ability to fly straight.

 

Based on my observations, I feel there's a balance between FPS of the dart leaving the barrel and dart accuracy and precision. However, all anyone seems to care about is FPS. What am I missing here?

 

Also, does anyone know if the Stryfe and Rapidsrike use the same flywheel motors?

Edited by shandsgator8, 12 December 2015 - 04:40 PM.

[jwasko]

They use the same size motor, so you can replace either one with the same aftermarket motor. However, stock rapidstrike motors are slightly better than stock stryfe motors.

 

Koosh darts are more accurate than elite darts, so buying/using those will help.

 

Also, some inaccuracy can be because of slight differences in manufacturing of the motors and/or flywheels. If one motor is spinning slightly faster, or one flywheel is a bit off, that'll make your darts fly wacky.

 

If you want the best accuracy out of flywheels, then find two motors that spin at exactly the same speed, and find a pair of balanced flywheels. Stryfe flywheels are usually the best.

 

Also, shooting darts will strip foam off of them and cause a buildup on the flywheels. This will increase flywheell balance and grip, so accuracy and performance will improve over time get the best performance

 

Check out http://torukmakto4.blogspot.com/  He does a lot of nitpicky work to his "Tacmod" rapidstrikes to get the best performance and accuracy possible. Not everyone does bothers with all of it, but their flywheel blasters also aren't as good.

 

If you want even better accuracy...don't use a flywheel blaster.

Edited by jwasko, 12 December 2015 - 05:13 PM.

[shandsgator8]

Thanks for the response; much appreciated as always.

 

I've read much of toruk's blog and it's excellent. I know he's even advocated that motor replacements in blasters such as Rapidstrikes don't always give performance worthy of the time and effort (I know this is inherently subjective, but it's an interesting idea). Basically, I'm trying to figure out if doing a motor replacement in a Stryfe or Rapidstrike is worth it (from a performance, expandability, and durability standpoint) if I intend to only use 6-8 AA NiMH battery packs (7.2-9.6v nominal, but 8.4-11.2v "hot-off-the-charger" voltages).

 

Note that I am defining "performance" to factor in situations where darts move so fast, they fly all over the place. My hunch says using high current capable batteries with "hot" motors such as MTB Rhino's, blades, Falcons, Sharks, etc. with a 2s Lipo equivalent battery pack is the ideal balance between FPS and accuracy/precision of my Koosh Gen 3 darts. I feel the hotter motors running at lower volts with high current batteries will give good torque, fast spin-up times, small flywheel RPM drop off between shots and good durability (for the motors).

 

However, I could be wrong, and maybe just keeping the stock motors with a 2s Lipo equivalent battery pack will give me what I want.

Edited by shandsgator8, 12 December 2015 - 05:24 PM.

[jwasko]

However, I could be wrong, and maybe just keeping the stock motors with a 2s Lipo equivalent battery pack will give me what I want.

It may very well; at the very least they should be "competititve" against most Superstock opponents, and provide plenty of punch for HvZ.

 

One thing to watch for is durability: Stock stryfe and rapidstrike motors are both metal-brushed motors, so their durability is already lower than that of carbon-brushed motors (which are what most/all recommended replacement motors are).

 

I've been told that if you push the stock motors much over 7.2Volts, they die quite quickly. So I would stick with 2S LiPo or 6 NiMH...don't try 3S or 8 NiMH unless you switch to Rhinos or something. If you stick to 7-ish volts, stock motors will last you a while.

Edited by jwasko, 15 December 2015 - 08:51 AM.

[shandsgator8]

I have 2 brand new Stryfes and Rhino motors. I will experiment with a 6, 7, and 8 cell NiMH battery pack to figure out the best combination (ROF, FPS, accuracy, and precision) with my Koosh Gen 3 darts. I'll report back to NH with my findings.

[shandsgator8]

Reporting back on my basic testing on the followed modded OJ Stryfe (with Gen 3 Koosh darts)

 

- Rewired with low-resistance 20 AWG silver wire (it can handle 20+ amps)

- Swapped out the stock motors with MTB Rhinos

- Put in a high amp micro switch (10+ amps)

- Used either an 8 cell eneloop AA pack (in a Radio Shack style battery holder, so yes, not very efficient) or a hardwired SC 6 cell 3300mah battery pack. Both battery packs used Deans connectors.

 

Results:

 

The 8 cell AA eneloop pack resulted in much faster moving darts with more distance. However, these darts were VERY inconsistent. The darts were all over the place with fishtailing. The darts appeared as if they were not aerodynamically capable of handling the high FPS.

 

The 6 cell SC pack had slower moving darts with less range, but the darts were MUCH more consistent, although there were still some darts that went all over the place.

 

Either pack had no noticeable difference in spin up times or flywheel recovery between rapid shots.

 

TLDR: Lower volts (6 cell pack) on MTB Rhinos resulted in much more consistently placed darts. Higher volts (8 cell pack) on MTB Rhinos resulted in faster darts with more range, but darts that went all over the place and were not consistent.

Edited by shandsgator8, 24 December 2015 - 02:05 PM.

[apocalypticamerica]

These results are similar to what I've experienced.  I have the MTB Rhinos in my Stryfe with a 3s LiPo, and although the muzzle velocity appears quite high, it's accuracy has been pretty bad.  I unfortunately have not had the chance to try with the 3rd gen Koosh darts- I have a feeling that they might work at least a little better.

 

Of course, there is this to consider still...

 

 

If you want even better accuracy...don't use a flywheel blaster.