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#1 AuelSG

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 07:30 PM

Hey guys,

Will removing the resistors from the Stryfe make any differences?
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#2 OceanSkais

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 10:16 PM

Unless you upgrade the batteries, no
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#3 Lunas

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 03:54 PM

that is going to depend. If he uses it stock with regular batteries there is no reason for the thermistor it just adds a little bit of resistance to the circuit. The inductors also drop the voltage a bit too but raise the amperage.

But the bottom line is unless he does a full rewire with either lipo or IMR there will be no noticeable change. And really the biggest change will be with new motors too. There is a metal flywheel cage with upgraded flywheels out there that just looks sweet some neoprene washers on the mounting posts is all i would do in addition...
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#4 AuelSG

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 06:19 AM

Hey guys, so I have replaced the motors with Tamiya Hyper Dash 2 with the following specs:

Voltage(V) - 2.4-3.0
Torque (nM-m) - 1.5-2.0
RPM(r/min) - 12000-14300
Current (A) - 1.3-1.7

Motor is noisy as hell and there are burnt smells coming out of it. I am using regular Energizer batteries, so whenever I took a shot. The motor will slow down so I can't do any rapid fire with it. Anyway to improve the ROF? Should I invest in Trustfires?
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#5 xXD3V1LXx

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 06:28 AM

Hey guys, so I have replaced the motors with Tamiya Hyper Dash 2 with the following specs:

Voltage(V) - 2.4-3.0
Torque (nM-m) - 1.5-2.0
RPM(r/min) - 12000-14300
Current (A) - 1.3-1.7

Motor is noisy as hell and there are burnt smells coming out of it. I am using regular Energizer batteries, so whenever I took a shot. The motor will slow down so I can't do any rapid fire with it. Anyway to improve the ROF? Should I invest in Trustfires?

You are either burning out the motors or you have to increase voltage with either trust fires or find a schematic to make 2 nine volts to an 18 v
Edit- also remove the resister and really no voltage upgrade with tamiya hyper dash 2 motors is a waste sorry if it sounds mean but get the most out of your money dude

Edited by xXD3V1LXx, 14 October 2015 - 06:31 AM.

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#6 AuelSG

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 06:35 AM

You are either burning out the motors or you have to increase voltage with either trust fires or find a schematic to make 2 nine volts to an 18 v
Edit- also remove the resister and really no voltage upgrade with tamiya hyper dash 2 motors is a waste sorry if it sounds mean but get the most out of your money dude


I had 2 of them laying around as I do play with Mini 4WDs, so no losses here. What I've done was only replaced the motors and twisted the thermistor. What do you mean by no voltage upgrade?
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#7 The2ndBluesBro

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 01:54 PM

Hey guys, so I have replaced the motors with Tamiya Hyper Dash 2 with the following specs:

Voltage(V) - 2.4-3.0


Motor is noisy as hell , burnt smells coming out of it, using regular Energizer batteries,


The motors are only rated to 3 volts, if you are using the stryfe's stock tray then you are applying much more than that, about double if I am correct.
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#8 AuelSG

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 07:30 PM

So do you mean that the motors I've installed are weaker than the stock ones?
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#9 AuelSG

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 08:08 AM

Anyone?
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#10 jwasko

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 08:10 AM

I'm not sure if the motors are "weaker" or "stronger" but you're powering them waaaay wrong.

Tamiya motors require low voltage (~3 Volts) and high current.

You are providing too much voltage and way too little current by using AAs. A lack of current will reduce torque, and more torque is what you need to get the flywheels back up to speed quickly between shots.

You may be able to make the motors usable by switching to an a single IMR rechargeable battery.

However I think that using a 1S (3.7 volt) LiPo, 1S (3.3 Volt) LiFePO4, or 2S-3S (2.4-3.6 Volt) NiMH/NiCd battery pack might actually be what you need.

LiPos can be dangerous if mis-handled. LiFePO4 is safer. NiMH or NiCd is safest. You can order NiMH packs off of cheapbatterypacks.com. Here is an example of what you might want (at 3S). Again, you could do 2 cells (2S) instead of 3. You can change the type of plug and cell configuration if you'd like. Leave the wire at 14gauge, and I'd suggest staying with a sub-c ("SC") cell for better current.

Note: You'll need a charger for any of the discussed options.

Edited by jwasko, 15 October 2015 - 08:11 AM.

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#11 AuelSG

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 08:36 AM

I'm not sure if the motors are "weaker" or "stronger" but you're powering them waaaay wrong.

Tamiya motors require low voltage (~3 Volts) and high current.

You are providing too much voltage and way too little current by using AAs. A lack of current will reduce torque, and more torque is what you need to get the flywheels back up to speed quickly between shots.

You may be able to make the motors usable by switching to an a single IMR rechargeable battery.

However I think that using a 1S (3.7 volt) LiPo, 1S (3.3 Volt) LiFePO4, or 2S-3S (2.4-3.6 Volt) NiMH/NiCd battery pack might actually be what you need.

LiPos can be dangerous if mis-handled. LiFePO4 is safer. NiMH or NiCd is safest. You can order NiMH packs off of cheapbatterypacks.com. Here is an example of what you might want (at 3S). Again, you could do 2 cells (2S) instead of 3. You can change the type of plug and cell configuration if you'd like. Leave the wire at 14gauge, and I'd suggest staying with a sub-c ("SC") cell for better current.

Note: You'll need a charger for any of the discussed options.


Hey!

Thanks for the recommendations, but I'm still very confused with tall the short terms. Since I'm still very new to modding nerfs I would like to stick to AA batteries. Are you able to advise which AAs I should get with my build?
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#12 jwasko

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 08:52 AM

Hey!

Thanks for the recommendations, but I'm still very confused with tall the short terms. Since I'm still very new to modding nerfs I would like to stick to AA batteries. Are you able to advise which AAs I should get with my build?


If by AA batteries you mean like Energizer, Duracell, etc that you buy from the grocery store...none will work with your current motors. You'd be better off going back to stock motors.

If you want added performance while using AAs, about the only thing that might work a little better are RM2 motors. The only batteries you should use with these are four AA batteries.

2 notes on RM2s:
1. Even running them on four AA batteries, they are prone to breaking.
2. They give some performance gain over stock motors, but not a ton.

Edited by jwasko, 15 October 2015 - 08:52 AM.

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#13 xXD3V1LXx

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 06:04 PM

Hey dude you said you had them laying around I currently have a pretty interesting commission and might need motors similar to that if you have more powerful ones I might buy if cheap enough.
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#14 AuelSG

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 07:47 PM

If by AA batteries you mean like Energizer, Duracell, etc that you buy from the grocery store...none will work with your current motors. You'd be better off going back to stock motors.

If you want added performance while using AAs, about the only thing that might work a little better are RM2 motors. The only batteries you should use with these are four AA batteries.

2 notes on RM2s:
1. Even running them on four AA batteries, they are prone to breaking.
2. They give some performance gain over stock motors, but not a ton.


I might be using the wrong name, I meant cell battries. Could you reccomend some that are suitable for my motors?
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#15 jwasko

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 09:34 PM

Well, what kind of battery do you use for your Mini 4WDs?
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#16 Lunas

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 09:44 PM

Noise is normal for flywheels

The only things i did with my stryfe is a rewire going from 22 gauge to 18 gauge solid core i put a battery gauge using the jam door as a off on switch for it open the gauge is on closed gauge is off greased up the trigger mech removed all the locks. Then put 2 IMR in for 8.4v with a long dummy i made using wood glue paper and more solid core wire. i can use my AA sized dummy to do 3 imr or all 4...

The stock motors shoot happily on 2 IMR 3 they get a bit angry and noisier but hit a bit harder on 4 they scream and stink and will let the smoke out if held too long.

my tray is more or less stock

I use Efest IMR 14500 cells get the v2 they are good for about 10A of current if you do go for better motors that can draw more then go for the Lipo mod.

But my stryfe does around 80-90 FPS and my darts are semi accurate to 100 ft on 2 IMR i carry a spare 2 for if i need to swap but i have yet to do so. The batteries are like 13-20 bucks on amazon for 2-4 and a charger is 20.
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#17 AuelSG

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 09:02 AM

Now I've bought 2 Trustfire TR14500 1200mAH 3.7V and 2 dummy batteries. Tried on my blaster with the motors I've installed, now the rev is pretty high and the smell got worse.

So my configuration is:

Stock wires with twisted thermistors.

Tamiya Hyper Dash 2 x 2
Voltage(V) - 2.4-3.0
Torque (nM-m) - 1.5-2.0
RPM(r/min) - 12000-14300
Current (A) - 1.3-1.7

Trustfire TR14500 1200mAH 3.7V x 2
Dummy battery x 2

Is my configuration capable of making anything explode? I've read about pretty bad stuffs about Trustfires. And should I use a Energizer charger to charge the Trustfires? Here's what written on the back of the charger.

Input AC220V - 240V 50/60HZ BW
Output DC 2.8V=260 - 300mA (AAx2)
DC 2.8V=120 - 150mA (AAAx2)
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#18 jwasko

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 10:11 AM

Danger! Stop what you are doing now!
I'm not sure what you mean by an energizer charger...but no, you should only charge trustfires with a charger meant for trustfires or else they almost certainly will explode.


This is what your motors require:
Tamiya Hyper Dash 2 x 2
Voltage(V) - 2.4-3.0

You are now trying to power it with Trustfire TR14500 1200mAH 3.7V x 2 = 7.4V

You need to power these motors with somewhere between 2.4 and 3V...you can maybe push it as high as 3.7V, but nowhere near 7.4Volts!!! This is why your motors smell horrible...both 4 AA batteries and 2 Trustfires are about double the voltage you should be using.

Also the motors might draw too much current out of the trustfires and make them explode, depending on the trustfire.

Again, I ask: what do you use to power your mini 4WD (which, I'm assuming, uses similar tamiya motors).

I know what battery you should be using...but if you are even considering using an inappropriate charger for trusfires, I'm worried that I will lead you to injury. I would like to help you, though, so please answer: what battery do you use to power your mini 4WD, and what motor does it have?


Edit: Actually, upon a google search, I think Mini4WD just uses AA batteries. Which means you have no experience with LiPo packs or the safety requirements required to use them.

If I were you, I would put the stock motors back in and enjoy your blaster in it's stock form. Or, go the route I mentioned ealier and get yourself some RM2 motors. Either way, stick with 4 plain old AA batteries. Your blaster will work fine and you won't blow anything up/burn your parent's house down.

Edited by jwasko, 16 October 2015 - 10:39 AM.

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#19 AuelSG

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 02:02 PM

Actually the motor voltage (2.4-3.0) is for 1 motor. So with 2 my motor voltage should be 4.8 - 6.0

So my logic on changing to the spare Tamiya motors I had around is if it 1 single motor is able to run by 2 alkaline batteries, so 2 motors should be able to run by 4 alkaline batteries? As Mini 4WD motors are direct contact with batteries with no resistors or thermistors.

This is what I'm using now:

ENERGIZER E91
http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/E91.pdf

-

So with the configuration of 2 motors combine it should be:

Voltage(V) - 4.8-6.0
Torque (nM-m) - 3.0-4.0
RPM(r/min) - 24000-28600
Current (A) - 2.6-3.4

So in order to play safe, I'm thinking of getting Energizer rechargeable batteries.

ENERGIZER NH15-1500
http://data.energize...s/nh15-1500.pdf

ENERGIZER NH15-2300
http://data.energize...s/nh15-2300.pdf

Edited by AuelSG, 16 October 2015 - 02:04 PM.

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#20 jwasko

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 02:42 PM

Assuming you wired the motors up the same way as stock (I believe the term is "in parallel" but I can never remember), you are incorrect. The battery requirements will be something like:

For Tamiya Hyper Dash 2 x 2 in parallel:
Voltage(V) - 2.4-3.0
Torque (nM-m) - 1.5-2.0
RPM(r/min) - 12000-14300
Current (A) - 2.6-3.4 (this is a minimum)

So, basically, the required voltage will stay the same but the required current will double.

On the other hand, the stock battery tray is wired in such a way (here the term is "in series"...the opposite of "in parallel") so that the battery voltages are added but the current is not.

So, basically, putting two trustfires in the stock tray is putting 7.4V and 4 energizers is putting 4.8 to 6Volts...either way, it's way too much voltage.

Quite the opposite, you are not going to provide enough current (Amps or milliAmps) for the motors by using any of the batteries that you linked to. For instance, see the bar graph marked "Milliamp-Hours capcacity" on the E91 datasheet? The furthest right bar is 500milliamps, which is the same as 0.5Amps.

So your batteries (no matter how many you put in the stock battery tray) are providing at best 0.5 Amps. As I showed above, you need 2.6-3.4Amps minimum if you are running at roughly 3 Volts...but you have been trying to run at double that, so if I have my science right the motors have been asking for more like 5.2 to 6.8Amps (at 6 to 7 Volts). The difference between 0.5Amps and 5.2Amps is why it takes so long to spin up your flywheels!

Unfortunately, none of the batteries that you linked can provide Amps close to what is required.

Something like this is more what you need. You will also need a charger, and to put a matching connector in your stryfe.

Edited by jwasko, 16 October 2015 - 03:04 PM.

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#21 AuelSG

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 08:19 PM

I think I would stick with store bought ones as I totally have no experience in dealing with stuffs like these.

I saw these batteries as well.

ENERGIZER L91
http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/l91.pdf

Nominal Voltage: 1.5 Volts
Max Discharge: 3.0 Amps Continuous
(single battery only) 5.0 Amps Pulse (2 sec on / 8 sec off)
Max Rev Current: 2 uA
Lithium Content: Less than 1 gram
Typical IR: 60 to 210 milliohms (depending on method)

Is this suitable? I have a few dummy batteries as well.

Could you tell me if the motors I have used are not suitable for Nerfs or should I rewire?

Edited by AuelSG, 16 October 2015 - 08:24 PM.

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#22 xXD3V1LXx

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Posted 17 October 2015 - 07:16 AM

I think I would stick with store bought ones as I totally have no experience in dealing with stuffs like these.

I saw these batteries as well.

ENERGIZER L91
http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/l91.pdf

Nominal Voltage: 1.5 Volts
Max Discharge: 3.0 Amps Continuous
(single battery only) 5.0 Amps Pulse (2 sec on / 8 sec off)
Max Rev Current: 2 uA
Lithium Content: Less than 1 gram
Typical IR: 60 to 210 milliohms (depending on method)

Is this suitable? I have a few dummy batteries as well.

Could you tell me if the motors I have used are not suitable for Nerfs or should I rewire?

They are suitable but don't use aas if u r using those motors use rechargeable batteries like for rc planes (not like chargeable AAs)
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#23 jwasko

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Posted 17 October 2015 - 11:41 AM

Those look better than some of the other ones that you linked, but I'm still not sure that they will give you the power you want/need.

If you do buy L91s, use 2 L91s plus 2 dummy cells with the tamiya motors.

Overall, while I know most people recommend against trustfires (and I do, too), your best bet is probably to put the stock motors back in and use 2 trustfires plus 2 dummy cells.

Just make sure you use a trustfire charger with your trustfires.

Edit: Speaking of rewiring, replacing the stock wiring with thicker gauge wire will help spin-up time on tamiya motors, too, but you still need better batteries to go with it.

Edited by jwasko, 17 October 2015 - 12:27 PM.

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#24 xXD3V1LXx

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Posted 17 October 2015 - 12:51 PM

Edit: Speaking of rewiring, replacing the stock wiring with thicker gauge wire will help spin-up time on tamiya motors, too, but you still need better batteries to go with it.

Yea he is rright
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#25 Lunas

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Posted 17 October 2015 - 03:38 PM

First stop if your unwilling/unable to do it right don't do it at all.

Second the energizer charger is made for NiMH/NiCd 1.2v cells only you will either just ruin your 3.7v cells or make them live up to the fire part of the name.

Those L91 are not rechargeable if you remember the price you paid you will get 2-3 hours use out of them and then need to toss another pair in and repeat i dont know about where you live but those suckers are not cheap 10 bucks for 4 of them vs rechargeable...

The batteries you want are one of these Lipo 7.4 v if you go back to the motors the stryfe came with
if you stick with the hyper dash2
universal charger will charge any and all safely

If you do not want to mod the box to fit that battery in it you may use these stick with a good brand anything with fire in the name is a no no use 3 dummy for hyper dash or 2 or 1 dummy with stock motors.

Now onto the mistakes with the motors.

In parallel motors can suck more current they require the same voltage though the smell you are getting is your brushes burning. the hyper dash 2 motors like you yourself have posted are rated to 3v however they can suck 3-6A of current each so you need around 12A available minimally to be safe excess draw is going to cause heating of the cells and potential for discharge of fire. 15-20A would be preferred. To get the proper amps you have 2 options parallel packs (introduces balance issues and potential fire risks) or better cells. Now to continue the use of the hyper dash 2 you would need 1 3.7v battery even then it is going to over volt it a single LiFePSO4 would be closer at 3.3v but you already worked them at 8.4v 3.7 will be a vacation for them.

For the best performance you will want to go back to the old stock motors and toss 2 IMR in or the 7.4v lipo i linked.

There are hundreds of threads on many different sites including this one on why not to use batteries with fire in the name yet people still try doing so and then they ask why did my house burn down.

You can also go for a more complicated build they make dc-dc converter boards that handle decent amperage. Using one of those you can use whatever power supply you wish just dial it down to what the motors can handle.

Edited by Lunas, 17 October 2015 - 03:46 PM.

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