15 replies to this topic

[Snoop Doggy doge]

So this weekend I went to a war, and about half of the people there started getting salty, not calling hits, arguing about validity because they didn't feel it. One of them even elbowed me because I barrel tapped from behind. The host was a noob, and was actually one of the people not calling hits, how would you react? (I would leave, but dammit I wanted to play. Also to note, these were adults! I get it if they're kids but like what?)

Edited by Snoop Doggy doge, 27 April 2015 - 11:48 PM.

[The lord of fish]

So this weekend I went to a war, and about half of the people there started getting salty, not calling hits, arguing about validity because they didn't feel it. One of them even elbowed me because I barrel tapped from behind. The host was a noob, and was actually one of the people not calling hits, how would you react? (I would leave, but dammit I wanted to play. Also to note, these were adults! I get it if they're kids but like what?)

I don't know why barrel tapping is even a thing. Unless the host is specific and says no point blank shots, I'd just shoot them. If this is a stock or lightly modded war, then definitely don't barrel tap.

Remember you are playing with a toy that shoots foam darts, its just a game. If you take it too seriously, you're going to have a bad time. But ultimately, if you don't like their rules, host your own war.

[Aeromech]

How to plan and host a nerf war.

Typically, the shooter calls the hit, and if it's questionable, just take the hit. Last war, I got "hit" in my (poofy) hair and while technically not a hit, I took myself out because it's easier than arguing and makes the rest of the game go smoothly. It's a game so don't make a big deal out of it especially if you're going to be running around again in <5 minutes. Don't be the person to ruin the game for everybody else.

[Birch]

I play a lot of Ultimate Frisbee, which like Nerf relies on self refereeing. In Disc, when a player thinks that a foul has been called they say foul, and then the person who has allegedly committed the foul says "contest" or "no contest". When they say "contest" the play is redone, but if they say "no contest" it is a turn over. I think that something like this could be implemented into a nerf game, but with modifications to eliminate the possible quarrels that could arise. This is not a perfect solution or anything, but It works in disc, so you might as well try it in Nerf.

[Draconis]

Ultimately, this is about not being a dick. You may have your work cut out for you in NYC. I hear there is some fruit loop in that group that runs around the field with a cardboard box on his head. I wouldn't be surprised if he was one of your problem players.

Edited by Draconis, 28 April 2015 - 08:46 PM.

[TED]

Host your own fuckin' wars, son.

[KaneTheMediocre]

Host your own fuckin' wars, son.

TED Talks!

How to plan and host a nerf war.

Typically, the shooter calls the hit, and if it's questionable, just take the hit. Last war, I got "hit" in my (poofy) hair and while technically not a hit, I took myself out because it's easier than arguing and makes the rest of the game go smoothly. It's a game so don't make a big deal out of it especially if you're going to be running around again in <5 minutes. Don't be the person to ruin the game for everybody else.

This is a popular and well intentioned policy, but I really think it needs to be more two sided. Shooters can call false hits just as easily as shoot-ees can ignore real ones. When you think you shot someone, I don't think you should call the hit unless
A) You hit them on a piece of loose clothing or somewhere else where they wouldn't feel it, or
It's the 2nd or 3rd time that you're pretty damn sure you hit them

edit: fuck that emoticon, it's supposed to be a goddamn B and a parenthesis.

I've seen more than a few people just yell "HIT!!!!" every time they fire their blaster. I'm not sure they realize that they aren't actually hitting every time, as it's quite difficult to tell at 100', and the natural expectation is that if you aimed at them, the dart is going to fly straight and hit them. Furthermore, since aerodynamics are more the limiting factor than gravity, the sudden drop at the end of a dart's trajectory can look a lot like a dart bouncing off a target and falling to the ground. I was never outgoing enough myself that I would call these sort of hits, but in my earlier NIC days I believed that I was hitting people a lot more than I was getting credit for. Now I know from lots of experience that darts don't always behave the way you expect them to, and real human targets are a lot more complicated than the hitboxes in a videogame.

The other reason I don't like the shooter-calls approach is I've been to wars where all I hear is people yelling hit, and it's just irritating to me. This is definitely a personal preference thing, but nothing kills the casual fun atmosphere for me like people yelling HIT every time they hit someone. Obviously, people arguing about it is even worse.

On the flipside, if someone calls a bogus hit on you, I don't think you should argue it unless
A) You saw the dart hit something nearby that would give a convincing illusion of hitting you (in which case you should explain that), or
B)It's the 2nd or 3rd time that particular person has called obviously bogus hits on you.

As an aside, making a distinction in the rules between getting hit in poofy hair vs anywhere else is just asking for trouble. Sure, a real bullet wouldn't have hurt you, but that's equally true if a real bullet were to pass through hanging loose clothing. We're not here to simulate a real gunfight, and we couldn't if we tried.

All that being said, all of this still depend in large part on compliance--it's just nice to have a socially accepted margin of error on both sides of the debate. I do think that limited respawn gametypes exacerbate the situation, because the stakes are higher. I'm much happier to take a bogus hit if I know I'm just going to respawn in 30 seconds or so when I get back to the base, compared with sitting out and waiting for the cowards remaining players to finish.

Sorry for dragging this a bit off topic--I know you're more looking for solutions for dealing with difficult people, not ruleset tweaks. But I think they are a bit related. It's easy to put "Don't be a dick" in the rules for your war, but it's another thing to actually enforce it, which basically means asking dicks not be dicks (which is of limited effectiveness) or asking dicks to leave. Not only is that an awkward and difficult conversation to have, but if you only have 10 people show up to your war and 3 of them are dicks, it's a pretty tough call as to whether you're better with or without the dicks.

I really enjoy how many times I got to say "dick" in the above segment.

Edited by KaneTheMediocre, 29 April 2015 - 09:53 PM.

[Langley]

This is a popular and well intentioned policy, but I really think it needs to be more two sided. Shooters can call false hits just as easily as shoot-ees can ignore real ones....

I've seen more than a few people just yell "HIT!!!!" every time they fire their blaster. I'm not sure they realize that they aren't actually hitting every time, as it's quite difficult to tell at 100', and the natural expectation is that if you aimed at them, the dart is going to fly straight and hit them.

As a host, I consider it my responsibility to call people out on that BS. If someone calls their hits every time, I'll ask them to stop calling hits at all. I've never had a problem with anyone habitually doing this, it's always one or two new guys that either straighten up or leave. My policy has always been that you should take any hits that are called, instead of arguing or looking for the dart or whatever, just to keep the game moving. If someone isn't taking hits, or they're calling hits before they actually hit, I deal with it after the round is over when I can verify with multiple people that it's a problem.

As far as how to deal with the situation in NYC, the important thing is to have any kind of rule, any way of handling people blowing off hits or calling bad hits. You can try suggesting this to the host, or hosting your own wars. Those are really your only options.

It's not clear from your post what you mean when you say the host wasn't calling hits. I'm assuming you mean that he wasn't taking hits. Personally I prefer that people don't constantly call their hits, and only call hits if the person obviously didn't notice the hit.

As far as the guy elbowing you for a barrel tap, did he know what a barrel tap was? If nobody mentioned the barrel tap rule, and you just ran up to him and poked him with your gun, I wouldn't be shocked that he elbowed you for what he may have seen as unwanted contact.

I don't know what the context is for how these guys got started running wars, how they know each other etc. They're not obligated to run wars the way people on NH do, or to know anything about how wars are run here. You can try suggesting that they set some rules and structure, but honestly if some kid I just met showed up and told me how to run my war, I would find that pretty fucking annoying. If other people who show up are having the same issues, you should try starting your own event and inviting them.

I do think that limited respawn gametypes exacerbate the situation, because the stakes are higher. I'm much happier to take a bogus hit if I know I'm just going to respawn in 30 seconds or so when I get back to the base, compared with sitting out and waiting for the cowards remaining players to finish.

Never miss an opportunity to push your agenda, do you?

[KaneTheMediocre]

Never miss an opportunity to push your agenda, do you?

Hellz no! I have several agendas to choose from, I can always tie one in.

[Snoop Doggy doge]

Ultimately, this is about not being a dick. You may have your work cut out for you in NYC. I hear there is some fruit loop in that group that runs around the field with a cardboard box on his head. I wouldn't be surprised if he was one of your problem players.

um, thanks. I'm the guy with a box on his head. I took a majority of stuff that day since I outranged others, so I really didn't mind. It was unlimited respond, (Hosts idea) and barrel tap was added in by ironically, the guy who elbowed me. The barrel tap was part of the rules, because they wanted "meelee" and not everyone had a "knife" but I didn't mind. I showed up because theres a large amount of people (20) compared to usual anything I host with friends (10ish max) so I was at first stoked for it being close. The rules were like a slightly altered version of NH's usuals, but had some other weird stuff in (knife thing, weird medic system). I guess it may have been annoying, but I just suggested game modes (3/15 and freezetag) because they had really just push to someones spawn which didn't work. I may have missed a few shots, but I called usually if I saw a dart on the ground near there running path or if I saw it LITERALLY IN THEIR SHIRT/VEST. The lord of the fish, I really wasn't thinking like that, so thanks for reminding, I'll be more lax.

[Gears]

I think "Don't be a dick" is a shitty rule. I prefer "don't be a pussy."

BEAT HIS ASS #WWRGD

In all seriousness though, I thankfully can't recall a single instance back in PA/NJ where this became a constant issue. Now that I'm playing in Chicago, it's an even bigger blessing that even with the new players who have been popping their war cherries, I haven't had an issue with a single person yet.

Edited by Gears, 01 May 2015 - 11:43 AM.

[Draconis]

um, thanks. I'm the guy with a box on his head.

I know, Van.

I think "Don't be a dick" is a shitty rule. I prefer "don't be a pussy."

I have to watch out for my kid, otherwise I totally get this.

[C-A 99]

I've played with people who don't say anything when they see their shot make contact, then rage about it at the end of the round. This was in stock dart Nerf where you don't feel the hits at least 40% of the time.

Anyway, don't like the host, don't play their game. If some rules aren't cleared up, ASK.

[Snoop Doggy doge]

Lmao well fuck you too Jim. I usually keep shooting until I see something bounce or it's an obvious hit @C-A 99, and yea I probably won't go if those other guys say they're showing up. Gears I know that too, all NIC wars hosted had awesome people and nobody was a dick. I wish there were more wars set up year round.

[Astech]

I usually keep shooting until I see something bounce or it's an obvious hit

If you often find yourself in the unfortunate position of continually scoring hits, yet never getting recognition, there is a solution. Find the hardest, barely legal slugs and keep a clip of them spare in every round (a high powered weapon also helps). Then, whenever someone is ruining it for everyone else, switch to that clip and aim for the neck (or head, if you're that cruel). They then have a choice; either take 10 or so withering, bruising shots or just walk back to spawn. You'll probably find that after the first few instances they'll realize that their cheating isn't working out and either leave or start playing fair (or just avoid you from then on, which works out just as well from your perspective).

In the few (twice) times I've played paintball, there was always that one guy that never acknowledged hits. He bought 500 or so balls, and I had 100. Obviously the above tactic couldn't work, but a similar strategy did. I snuck up behind him (in the second to last round) and hit the unprotected back of his head from 5 meters away until he gave up. Different game, same effect.

I realize that this is extreme, and definitely bends rules. Still, for the price of keeping your failure slugs that are lopsided and/or have nasty bits, you can all but eliminate the problem. Or course, the simple solution is to get their name(s) and keep a list of all the people never to nerf with again.

[DX-Robert]

This thread is 2 months old, but I need to reply to above because that ^ is just terrible advice. You should NEVER intend to hurt people with the exposed metal rim of bad slugs, or comparable flaws in other darts. Failed and bad darts only belong in one place: a trash can.

The war host (or an enforcer at a larger event) should just talk to any problem players in between rounds, privately. Don't make a spectacle of it, just ask them if they've been taking hits, and if not, why not? Perhaps they have legitimate protests, perhaps they really didn't feel the hits. Never forget that shooters often call bogus hits based on what they think they saw happen.

So, maybe the player was trying to game some free lives after all. If they've been warned, politely and nicely, that the behavior is unacceptable, the vast majority of them will adjust accordingly. It's really rare to encounter a player who doesn't respond to this approach, in which case, a second, more pointed warning can be issued. Strike three is ejection from the war, which almost nobody wants to happen.

Personally, I really don't care if someone doesn't take the hit I clearly delivered on them. If they need 4, or 5, or even 6 lives just to stand a chance, then so be it. That's really pathetic and they'll know that they suck, deep down inside, which is good enough for me. Gotta keep those rounds moving, arguing hits wastes time. I usually take hits without the shooter needing to call them, but I often don't feel soft hits, especially off a jacket or jeans, so they need to be called. Hits like that happen way more often than most people think, you can be hit in all kinds of places and never feel or hear a thing. The more gear you have or the colder it is, the less you feel. If everyone just acknowledges that these things happen a lot, and is laid back about them, a war goes that much more smoothly.

Edited by Duxburian, 06 July 2015 - 12:33 AM.