19 replies to this topic

[Carakki]

I'm looking to maybe join my local university's HvZ game in a few months, and that means I'll need darts - lots of 'em. This has led me to the decidedly Chinese world of off-brand stock darts, with "Koosh" and "Voberry" being the big names. Here's what I know:

"Koosh" darts are sold on eBay by yutoys and beautifulwoman2012. They are generally considered to be cheap and effective, but often have quality control problems (thin/weak foam, heads not glued on well).

"Voberry" darts I have only seen mentioned here on NH in one place, but this blog notes that they have high-quality foam, if lower-than par accuracy thanks to the dreaded hole in the tip. The NH poster buys from this eBay seller (who has an amazing price for the quantity), while the blogger bought from Amazon, which is currently out of stock.

The most important question is: which dart/seller combination gives the best reliability and performance for the cost, and why?

[meishel]

I believe the darts are no longer on Amazon due to Hasbro pulling it's weight as a huge seller. The Voberrys are extremely similar to Elite darts. So much so, that my girlfriend still cannot tell the difference even though I've showed her 2-3 times. I think this caused Hasbro to say "Yo Amazon, those are counterfeit items, stop selling them, or we'll stop shipping you blasters!" That is clearly just speculation, but it seems likely.

I want to try out some of the Koosh darts soon. I'm getting my chrony in a few days, and I plan on doing motor, battery, and dart comparisons. I don't like the price jumps for smaller quantities of Koosh darts though. I don't want to order 200 of them and realize I hate the new foam.

When looking at your links, I noticed these new darts: http://www.ebay.com/...=item2a474d44d6 Whoa they look just like Voberry darts, but the hole appears to be sealed, and the tips match the foam! Super cool! I just ordered 200 koosh darts, and 200 of the new darts. We need to come up with a nickname for the new ones. Any suggestions?

[rockinon96]

How about we name these new darts, "Fauxberry" darts. to distinct themselves as faux voberry darts (which are actually cheap elite alternatives)

[meishel]

That listing has apparently been up since November. Odd. I troll ebay for new darts pretty regularly. I looked pretty thoroughly at least a month ago. I've never heard of these or seen them before. Someone on one of the FB groups is saying they're shorter than normal, and the foam is too thin. I guess we'll see since I ordered some.

[Draconis]

Oh cool, I like those pastel colors. They look fairly similar to the dart heads which came with those knock-off blasters the guy was giving out as samples last year. The holes were filled, and they vented out the back of the head.

[Love777]

I am in full support of the voberry over the koosh. Koosh aren't bad by any means but according to a chrono my blaster get a little better fps with the voberry and the foam seems to be a better quality so I have had less issues with compression in the clip that leads to jamming. Accuracy is equal from my experiences in HVZ / a little bit of nerf war. Voberry also has the advantage of being more versatile when it comes to using them in springs vs flywheel; blasters whereas I would only use koosh in a flywheel. Just my two cents

[Tobias]

The "Voberry" darts I have ordered several times. They have a rubberized plastic tip with no hole in it, making accuracy spot-on. The foam is quite dense and good quality, but the adhesives can lack sometimes. I cannot, however, compare these to "Koosh" darts as I have not bought any of those.

Hopes this helps,
~Toby

[CS- Tiff]

The "Voberry" darts I have ordered several times. They have a rubberized plastic tip with no hole in it, making accuracy spot-on. The foam is quite dense and good quality, but the adhesives can lack sometimes. I cannot, however, compare these to "Koosh" darts as I have not bought any of those.

Hopes this helps,
~Toby

Flywheelers: Kooshes

Springers: Voberrys

I have also ordered the voberry several times. The adhesive that holds the head to the foam is horrible making it fail with flywheels. The head is very hard making shots sting more. Accuracy is on par with elites however the performance is significantly worse. I get -10 fps at least in flywheel blasters but if you are using springers, I say go for it. I you are using flywheels, kooshes are superior.

Edited by CS- Tiff, 22 January 2015 - 09:04 PM.

[meishel]

Flywheelers: Kooshes

Springers: Voberrys

I have also ordered the voberry several times. The adhesive that holds the head to the foam is horrible making it fail with flywheels. The head is very hard making shots sting more. Accuracy is on par with elites however the performance is significantly worse. I get -10 fps at least in flywheel blasters but if you are using springers, I say go for it. I you are using flywheels, kooshes are superior.

Can you take a picture of one of your "Voberrys?" It sounds like you're talking about FVJs. I have 300+ Voberrys, and I've never had a tip come off. Also, the tips are slightly softer than Elite darts. I'm thinking you either got FVJs or you got some lemons.

Edit: Here's a picture of some of the different darts. Left to right: Voberry in package, Voberry dart used, FVJ dart (These come in different colors), and Elite dart.
http://http://i.imgur.com/FhTj9Lf.jpg

Edited by meishel, 22 January 2015 - 10:32 PM.

[CS- Tiff]

Oops, yes they are FVJ's. Well never get FVJ's because they SUCK.

[meishel]

Oops, yes they are FVJ's. Well never get FVJ's because they SUCK.

Yes. Yes they do. I bought 100 of them. I now use them whenever I need cheap foam for padding a plunger tube, or something like that.

[Love777]

I was about to say there is no reason you should be having that kind of issue with voberries for sure FVJ's. As far as koosh accuracy in flywheels I haven't been able to find a difference so I go with voberries since they are cheaper.

Do people have a method usually for measuring dart accuracy is a reliable way? <- This is meant to stay on topic as a comparison of koosh vs voberry

[ravetrooper]

New dart type alert!!! At least I've never seen these before:

http://www.ebay.com/...&_qi=RTM1963929

They appear to be a knock-off version of the elite suction cup darts! I lost the bid on the 50pk last night but I'm going to try and get this one and put a review all up in here. Unless someone has already discovered and bought these and found out they're terrible...?

Do people have a method usually for measuring dart accuracy is a reliable way? <- This is meant to stay on topic as a comparison of koosh vs voberry

One way to meaure accuracy is to take a single shot blaster (or any front-loader) put a tiny amount of lipstick on a few dart tips of dart type A and a differeent color on dart B, then fire the same number of shots from the same distance, aiming at the same spot on something you don't mind getting lipstick on (paper taget on a scrap of old drywall is good) then just measure the dart spreads in comparison to each other.

P.S. The reason for lipstick vs something like paint is that it will leave a good mark but still come off the dart.

Edited by ravetrooper, 29 January 2015 - 03:20 PM.

[Griever 2112]

Just placed an order for 200 koosh darts from beautifulwoman (asked for all yellow darts since they would seem the easiest to find) Once I get them, I'll let you all know the quality.

Edited by Griever 2112, 29 January 2015 - 03:21 PM.

[Griever 2112]

So I got in my order of darts finally.
The foam that is used is on par with the N-Strike Elite darts I have, no stiffer, but not flimsy. So far no issues with separating heads. I did get all yellow ones like I asked for. Shipping took just over a month. I would recommend the Koosh Darts.

Did a review on them too.
My Koosh Dart Review video.

[Phil]

why not create a soft foam dart that has grooves that replicate rifling, but also have the dart balanced perfect for flight?

you guys might also want to research how the DOD stabilizes weapon systems

IE: stabilizing fins, SABOT rounds, etc.

[Draconis]

The problem with adding fin or "ridge" stabilization to the dart heads is that darts are naturally drag stabilized already. If you add an additional drag force vector to the front, it will probably cause tumbling. It would certainly be worth a try, but may also be difficult to implement. Fins work great on rockets and missiles, but micro darts are a little too small. All of these methods would be time consuming, and just are not worth the effort.

[Phil]

The problem with adding fin or "ridge" stabilization to the dart heads is that darts are naturally drag stabilized already. If you add an additional drag force vector to the front, it will probably cause tumbling. It would certainly be worth a try, but may also be difficult to implement. Fins work great on rockets and missiles, but micro darts are a little too small. All of these methods would be time consuming, and just are not worth the effort.

well the problem with tumbling rounds is the actual weight of the round it self? for example, when you're loading and casting your own ammunition for 7.62x39... you can't just cast your round with say.. zinc, because that metal is just too light, so you would have a steel core, or copper core for the weight and then a zinc coating. the same concept for standard FMJ surplus rounds, steel core, cooper coating. so wouldn't we be able to apply that to this? you increase the FPS and distance traveled by putting a steel core in the round, supplemented with grooves?

i mean at this point you ruin the concept of nerf, nerf is just a child's toy essentially, and you're giving the range of a real combat rifle. if you really think about it, when i'm out at the range, or training with an WASR-10, or a SKS, my targets are only at 50 yards, the most i'll engage out to is 100 yards. @ 100 yards, the target is only a spec with iron sights, and even with my scope, you're not getting defining detail. but it kind of bothers me to see that people are trying to get more and more distance with their rounds on nerfhaven, but yet there's a underlining negative feelings towards milism, or whatever. adding distance to a nerf dart may seem non-milism, but you're trying to get the same performance out of something like my sks, or ak-47, when you should be just running and gunning... I mean when do you stop and say, it's too much? i've been told that at nerf apoc, minimum engagement ranges will be @ 80ft, but god knows how far some nerf blasters can shoot, especially home made with home made nerf darts. so if i'm being engaged at 100 yards in nerf, i might as well just stick to the real guns?

Edited by Phil, 12 June 2015 - 07:37 AM.

[Draconis]

well the problem with tumbling rounds is the actual weight of the round it self? for example, when you're loading and casting your own ammunition for 7.62x39... you can't just cast your round with say.. zinc, because that metal is just too light, so you would have a steel core, or copper core for the weight and then a zinc coating. the same concept for standard FMJ surplus rounds, steel core, cooper coating. so wouldn't we be able to apply that to this? you increase the FPS and distance traveled by putting a steel core in the round, supplemented with grooves?

Yeah, we are not going to do this. Also, increasing the mass lowers the muzzle velocity. Most of us are perfectly happy with the performance of Slugs or silicone domes.

i mean at this point you ruin the concept of nerf, nerf is just a child's toy essentially, and you're giving the range of a real combat rifle.

Not even close. Most blasters we play with are pushing somewhere between 50fps and 200fps, and the darts only weigh about 1g.

if you really think about it, when i'm out at the range, or training with an WASR-10, or a SKS, my targets are only at 50 yards, the most i'll engage out to is 100 yards. @ 100 yards, the target is only a spec with iron sights, and even with my scope, you're not getting defining detail.

I don't know where you are going with this, it does not seem to be related.

but it kind of bothers me to see that people are trying to get more and more distance with their rounds on nerfhaven, but yet there's a underlining negative feelings towards milism, or whatever. adding distance to a nerf dart may seem non-milism, but you're trying to get the same performance out of something like my sks, or ak-47, when you should be just running and gunning... I mean when do you stop and say, it's too much? i've been told that at nerf apoc, minimum engagement ranges will be @ 80ft, but god knows how far some nerf blasters can shoot, especially home made with home made nerf darts. so if i'm being engaged at 100 yards in nerf, i might as well just stick to the real guns?

Well, you're way off track here, and it illustrates how little you have dealt with dart ballistics. There is no possible way that this scenario will play out. Darts travel so slowly that you can dodge damn near anything at 80 feet. To hit someone at 100 feet is pure fucking luck. Whomever told you that was communicating via their posterior ventilation duct. Raising normal darts up to higher speeds requires less for for longer duration, which makes blasters uncomfortably bulky. Nobody wants to play with that. Applying large forces for short duration destroys darts. Stock darts explode. Homemade darts squib or shred.

[Phil]

Yeah, we are not going to do this. Also, increasing the mass lowers the muzzle velocity. Most of us are perfectly happy with the performance of Slugs or silicone domes.



Not even close. Most blasters we play with are pushing somewhere between 50fps and 200fps, and the darts only weigh about 1g.



I don't know where you are going with this, it does not seem to be related.



Well, you're way off track here, and it illustrates how little you have dealt with dart ballistics. There is no possible way that this scenario will play out. Darts travel so slowly that you can dodge damn near anything at 80 feet. To hit someone at 100 feet is pure fucking luck. Whomever told you that was communicating via their posterior ventilation duct. Raising normal darts up to higher speeds requires less for for longer duration, which makes blasters uncomfortably bulky. Nobody wants to play with that. Applying large forces for short duration destroys darts. Stock darts explode. Homemade darts squib or shred.

so it's just over worrying, then no problems