12 replies to this topic

[archangel24]

After a week, I finally got to finishing - or so I thought - my afterburner mod on my Elite Rayven.

Problem being is that for some reason, faux barrel attachments are having an adversely negative effect on the dart trajectory(i.e. darts not leaving the faux barrel after the afterburner about 20% of the time). This includes Longstrike barrels and a Retaliator barrel with thinwall PVC. I added some polycarb/pvc infront of the second motor cage en attempt to alleviate the problem but it didn't help much even though the motorcage is now centered and straight. The faux barrel that connects the two motor cages is lined up and centered.

TL;DR, Theoretically the mod was executed properly but darts don't always leave the faux barrel.

Edit:
To make it more and less erotic just as erotic but more informative on what I did

Edited by archangel24, 15 July 2014 - 01:57 PM.

[KaneTheMediocre]

'archangel24', on 15 Jul 2014 - 6:52 PM, said:

After a week, I finally got to finishing - or so I thought - my afterburner mod on my Elite Rayven.

Problem being is that for some reason, faux barrel attachments are having an adversely negative effect on the dart trajectory(i.e. darts not leaving the faux barrel after the afterburner about 20% of the time). This includes Longstrike barrels and a Retaliator barrel with thinwall PVC. I added some polycarb/pvc infront of the second motor cage en attempt to alleviate the problem but it didn't help much even though the motorcage is now centered and straight. The faux barrel that connects the two motor cages is lined up and centered.

TL;DR, Theoretically the mod was executed properly but darts don't always leave the faux barrel.

Edit:
To make it more and less erotic just as erotic but more informative on what I did

What is the ID of the tube between the stock flywheels and the afterburner?

[archangel24]

'KaneTheMediocre', on 15 Jul 2014 - 9:26 PM, said:

What is the ID of the tube between the stock flywheels and the afterburner?

Should be obvious as to what the material is, it's the stock faux barrel. As far as ID goes, I'm not sure what the exact ID is of Nerf stock faux barrels as I don't have a set of calipers.

[KaneTheMediocre]

'archangel24', on 15 Jul 2014 - 10:05 PM, said:

Should be obvious as to what the material is, it's the stock faux barrel. As far as ID goes, I'm not sure what the exact ID is of Nerf stock faux barrels as I don't have a set of calipers.

I'm aware that the tube is injection molded ABS plastic, so yes, the material is obvious. Perhaps we can narrow the size down a bit without calipers? Can you fit cpvc or other 5/8" material inside it? Can you fit 1/2" PVC pipe inside it?

Edited by KaneTheMediocre, 15 July 2014 - 05:29 PM.

[cheerios]

'KaneTheMediocre', on 15 Jul 2014 - 10:15 PM, said:

I'm aware that the tube is injection molded ABS plastic, so yes, the material is obvious. Perhaps we can narrow the size down a bit without calipers? Can you fit cpvc or other 5/8" material inside it? Can you fit 1/2" PVC pipe inside it?

It's ~17mm. My calipers are being a bit janky recently so that's as close as I can get.

Edited by cheerios, 15 July 2014 - 05:35 PM.

[TheWiredDJ]

My thoughts on this are simply speculation at this time as I have not constructed my own afterburner rayven setup, but I've had this opinion on this setup since seeing it first implemented about a year ago. The inherent fault in this design is the length of barrel between the front and rear flywheel sets. In an afterburner setup, the rear flywheels should be serving a purpose soley to accelerate the dart to the extent that it is entering the front flywheels at a faster speed than initially at rest. Since the barrel section (faux barrel in your case) is longer than 1 dart length +/- ~1/2 inch, you can run into the scenario where darts are not propelled forward in a perfectly straight fashion and will then lodge in the faux barrel section (due to not hitting the front flywheels in a manner consistent with possible feeding into the flywheel cage). Ideally for an afterburner setup, should the middle barrel section not be 1 dart length +/- ~1/2 inch, where the dart will enter the front flywheel set almost instantly after leaving the rear set, without leaving room for it to veer off-course in the center barrel section into a postion where the front flywheels cannot catch, feed and fire the dart? Granted, that ideal setup is not possible within the confines of a non-heavily modified rayven shell, but the theory in itself should be sound. Just my 2 cents on the issue.

[KaneTheMediocre]

'TheWiredDJ', on 16 Jul 2014 - 01:43 AM, said:

My thoughts on this are simply speculation at this time as I have not constructed my own afterburner rayven setup, but I've had this opinion on this setup since seeing it first implemented about a year ago. The inherent fault in this design is the length of barrel between the front and rear flywheel sets. In an afterburner setup, the rear flywheels should be serving a purpose soley to accelerate the dart to the extent that it is entering the front flywheels at a faster speed than initially at rest. Since the barrel section (faux barrel in your case) is longer than 1 dart length +/- ~1/2 inch, you can run into the scenario where darts are not propelled forward in a perfectly straight fashion and will then lodge in the faux barrel section (due to not hitting the front flywheels in a manner consistent with possible feeding into the flywheel cage).

I think you're right, although from the description of his problem doesn't seem to indicate it was getting stuck between the 2 sets of flywheels. That said, if it's not hitting the afterburner centered, it MIGHT increase the odds of exiting at a drastic angle that causes the dart to hit stuff some of that orange chud on the muzzle. Without having the blaster in front of me, it's tricky to precisely diagnose.

'cheerios', on 15 Jul 2014 - 10:32 PM, said:

It's ~17mm. My calipers are being a bit janky recently so that's as close as I can get.

Thanks.

I would suggest a narrower tube nested inside the faux-barrel, but that tube needs to be slippery and possibly have a flared entry. I'd use http://www.mcmaster....8628k57/=suwkab but I have to recognize that normal people aren't going to have that material lying around, and I don't have a hardware store alternative.

[archangel24]

'KaneTheMediocre', on 16 Jul 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

I would suggest a narrower tube nested inside the faux-barrel, but that tube needs to be slippery and possibly have a flared entry. I'd use http://www.mcmaster....8628k57/=suwkab but I have to recognize that normal people aren't going to have that material lying around, and I don't have a hardware store alternative.

Thanks, do you think PETG (if I were to find a segment loose enough) or just 19/32 BRS would be fine? Of course using E-tape or some other tape to nest and center.

EDIT: Tested it out with 19/32 and it worked just fine, even helped tremendously with stabilizing the faux barrel segment - resting the exposed brass against the stryfe motorcage ramp. Just that brass is a [redacted] to flare out, if you don't have tube flaring kit (or don't feel like digging it out of a spider infested workshop).
Thanks for the help Kane
Flare it so that its gaping like Ryan had fun with it all night wide enough to prevent darts from getting caught. Also make sure its not mincing up your darts.

Edited by archangel24, 16 July 2014 - 07:21 AM.

[archangel24]

'TheSilverhead', on 16 Jul 2014 - 7:58 PM, said:

Brass'd Stryfe
What about doing something like this? Have a brass barrel through both flywheel cages. It would enter the first set perfectly centered, and have less room to veer before entering the second set.

Thanks for the tip, if I can find more brass, I'll definately try that, though I'll probably use 19/32 if I can just to be safe and reduce contact/friction.

[deliriousMango]

Hopefully this image posts properly, I'm trying to post from my iPad. I've been working on my Rayven as well as doing some concept work for a custom mount to put some spin on the darts as well. I came up with this integration after deciding the hailfire was a worthless piece of junk, and it's solved the problem mentioned before about optimum afterburner motor separation being less than the length of the dart. It's also entirely self contained and removable, being attached simply with the barrel mount from a retaliator extension. The distance from the departure point of the stryfe motors and the feeding end of the hailfire is almost exactly one dart length.


Sorry I don't have any internal shots, I'll take it apart to rebarrel eventually if any of you want to see inside. It has 3 sets of motors (stock Rayven to stryfe to hailfire) and I just have it running on 12 LiFePo4 3.2v Ultralast solar batteries, which I've found to be more consistent and reliable than the ultra/trustfire type that are so popular among the NIC.

Edited by deliriousMango, 30 July 2014 - 06:25 PM.

[BlackStar]

'deliriousMango', on 30 Jul 2014 - 11:21 PM, said:

Hopefully this image posts properly, I'm trying to post from my iPad. I've been working on my Rayven as well as doing some concept work for a custom mount to put some spin on the darts as well. I came up with this integration after deciding the hailfire was a worthless piece of junk, and it's solved the problem mentioned before about optimum afterburner motor separation being less than the length of the dart. It's also entirely self contained and removable, being attached simply with the barrel mount from a retaliator extension. The distance from the departure point of the stryfe motors and the feeding end of the hailfire is almost exactly one dart length.


Sorry I don't have any internal shots, I'll take it apart to rebarrel eventually if any of you want to see inside. It has 3 sets of motors (stock Rayven to stryfe to hailfire) and I just have it running on 12 LiFePo4 3.2v Ultralast solar batteries, which I've found to be more consistent and reliable than the ultra/trustfire type that are so popular among the NIC.

That looks incredible. It must pack much more of a punch than a single flywheel set can achieve. Can you post ranges?

[deliriousMango]

'BlackStar', on 31 Jul 2014 - 03:29 AM, said:

That looks incredible. It must pack much more of a punch than a single flywheel set can achieve. Can you post ranges?

I'll take it for a spin tomorrow and put up some results. I may even go ahead and do my barrel mods as well if I have time.