15 replies to this topic

[xXhunter47Xx]

If not, why?
Is it the firing method that is too complicated, is it the discs are expensive or too hard to make, or just nobody decided that vortex is not good enough?

The design of a disc already makes it more stable than a dart, which translates to near straight firing and long ranges.
Have you made a vortex homemade?

I'm honestly baffled as to why I have not seen a vortex homemade yet. I'm just assuming that it's the torsion spring set up that is difficult and that it is difficult to acquire vortex discs.

Homemade vortex discs

Edited by xXhunter47Xx, 19 August 2013 - 06:23 PM.

[sodizzle3113]

Why would you make one? Have you seen homemade discs? I haven't. If they are out there, I cant imagine they would be cheap to make, or reliable. It's not that its too complicated, it's that it's not desired. Stefans fly fast, discs go straight but slow. You could dodge them all day.

[azrael]

Actually, if you search, there have been people making home made vortex discs on NerfHaven.

[HasreadCoC]

The area of disk-based homemades was something I had been thinking about and discussing in-depth with a member on NRev a while ago. Personally, I feel that disks add something new to NIC nerf, in that they can be longer-range AND painless (compared to darts), with the tradeoff (if you can call it that) being speed. I personally like the fact that disks are dodge-able, it adds a new layer to play.

First and foremost though, homemade disks must be made, and they must be made at about X<$0.10 in terms of materials cost if we want them to be a prolific ammo type. My thoughts were to cut rings of PVC, maybe 1/4"-1/2" thick, then to take pre-cut strips of self-adhesive craft foam sheet and stick them around the outer-edge of the PVC rings. After that, glue on non-self-adhesive craft foam circles (non-adhesive so they don't get crap stuck inside them when landing on grass) on the tops of the PVC rings with the foam strip going around it providing extra surface area for the glue, and also padding for impact (making a padded frisbee, basically).

Heck, I could probably whip up an example, if I felt so inclined. Two main problems though. First, for stability, a homemade launcher would have to introduce spin on the disk, and second, the cut size, diameter, and thickness of the PVC rings, and angles in general on the disks have to work out to be properly aerodynamic. Unless we can beat or at least tie nerf's max disk range, and performance in general, I doubt they'll catch on.

One we have a working disk, we just need to make a simple pump-action sled-type launcher, and probably a gravity-fed clear PVC tube as a magazine/hopper. The tricky part is just adding in the spin.

Honestly, if one or two of the homemades pioneers felt up to it, I don't doubt that it could be done, but with all the aerodynamics that need to be worked out, that's a lot of testing, and it would probably take a trail-blazer to get us started and work up an NIC standard/baseline to start with.

[Mully]

My thoughts were to cut rings of PVC, maybe 1/4"-1/2" thick, then to take pre-cut strips of self-adhesive craft foam sheet and stick them around the outer-edge of the PVC rings.

You could also just theoretically take standard pvc pipe insulator, and glue it on instead of having to mess around with craft foam, and then do what you said, with the bumper pad on top.
I think disks would be pretty sweet to have at an NIC war, they wouldn't necessarily be as competitive as standard homemade darts, but they'd be a ton of fun to use!

Edited by Mully, 19 August 2013 - 08:30 PM.

[Asamere]

One we have a working disk, we just need to make a simple pump-action sled-type launcher, and probably a gravity-fed clear PVC tube as a magazine/hopper. The tricky part is just adding in the spin.

I personally would find home made disc blasters fascinating, (I'm more a lurker on forums and still have little time to make things, but I love the ingenuity behind them all)However there are simple methods to make discs fly, such as flywheel blasters and what not. The real difficulty is crafting an easy and accessible ammunition type. However once that standard is met I'm sure the wondrous distances of disks will be improved by messing with mass, and method of launching. They won't ever be as fast as darts, but if you got more range, who's to say it wont work on surprise.

Speculation aside, the first task would be to make a bunch of viable discs first. Once introduced, I'm sure someone will be more then happy to take up the challenge of making them fly. Perhaps even make it a contest, in which some prize is plausible for success. Many a talented craftsmen lurk these forums... Perhaps you'll catch one of them into the scheme of things.

[xXhunter47Xx]

Maybe I'll have a plusbow or something and offer that as a prize...

Anyways I'm currently studying the cache and priming mech of vortex blasters (excluding the diatron, because it's different)

[Meaker VI]

I was super-excited about Vortex when it came out, and did quite a bit of experimenting in the area. I haven't had the time or desire to continue experimenting lately, but here is what I did do:

I forget which it is, but either 1 1/4", 1 1/2", or 1" PVC pipe is nearly a dead-ringer for the size of the discs as-is. If you're fine flinging plastic rings at each other, they might work in stock launchers; I think that I had a problem getting mine to fire, but it might have been that I wasn't depressing the disc-detector. Frankly, since the discs are slower and there isn't much to get stabbed by, I'm fine with them unpadded as long as they're finished well (deburred, sanded).

You could also just theoretically take standard pvc pipe insulator, and glue it on instead of having to mess around with craft foam, and then do what you said, with the bumper pad on top.

1/2" Pipe with 1/2" pipe foam is just slightly the wrong size to fit in a stock blaster. The PVC ring doesn't catch on the throwing arm inside the blaster, it just tears through the foam. That doesn't mean that this style of homemade discs are out of the question, but it does mean that we either need a different method or they're only useful for homemade launchers.

In every case, all the top padding is needed for is to activate the disc-detector lock. Rings fly just fine by themselves.

As for blasters, I made a test-rig to launch the rings, but didn't have the equipment here to really make it work. What I did is basically make a catapult with a track on top, no springs required.

[xXhunter47Xx]

Do you have pictures of said test rig?

[Meaker VI]

Do you have pictures of said test rig?

No, and even if I did they wouldn't say much more than the explanation. It was a very basic test rig whipped together for some theory-checking, I need to rebuild the thing from scratch.

The trouble, I think, is that vortex blasters are a completely different problem than dart-blasters. Where with dart blasters, we can mostly source parts to cut to size and build a working blaster from the hardware store; vortex blasters require more creativity. You can't buy a CPVC 'barrel' that is ready to go for vortex blasters, you need to build one out of sheet stock. You can't buy a ready-made fling arm (or perhaps you can, but nobody's looked yet since there's little interest), but you can find a plunger tube, pump, air tank, etc. Building it shouldn't be a problem though - it's a box with a fling-arm in it and rope twisted around the arm to provide power. Everything needs to be cut from 2x stock or plywood. The 'barrel' just needs to be an appropriately-sized box with a slot in it.

[Asamere]

In every case, all the top padding is needed for is to activate the disc-detector lock. Rings fly just fine by themselves.

Perhaps an answer is an entirely different method to fire these to get speed out of these as well as rotation.
I know that he uses different tech and isn't Nerf.
But the science of using one of these. It wouldn't have to be to be too powerful a motor. It could be relatively flat as well. A padded arm. However this is leading to speculation and so I'll stop there. What I'm trying to say is, once you have the ammo made, perhaps new methods to launching the projectile are in order. (On a side note, a Sling-a-tron that fires vortex disks may be a project I'll try sometime unless someone beats me to it)

[DartSlinger]

The design of a disc already makes it more stable than a dart, which translates to near straight firing and long ranges.

Actually not. Vortex discs are extremely prone to being severely thrown off course by crosswinds and up or down drafts. Even a light breath of air that moves your disc three inches can result in it being several feet off course when reaching the target. They also start to curve beyond about twenty feet. This is how people can fire them around corners. These characteristics make them undesirable for outdoor wars. Homemades are almost exclusively used for outdoor wars, and discs don't work very well outdoors, so why would someone build a homemade disc shooter? This and that most people probably view the Vortex line as a passing fad are probably the main reasons why people haven't explored homemade disc shooters.

[Langley]

So I think the original question in the OP has been answered. This thread is rapidly getting into 'idea thread' territory. IF anyone makes even the slightest amount of (documented) progress on creating homemade vortex discs, or a homemade disc shooter, feel free to post it as a new thread, but until that happens, keep the speculation and theorizing to yourselves.

[HasreadCoC]

Homemades are almost exclusively used for outdoor wars, and discs don't work very well outdoors, so why would someone build a homemade disc shooter? This and that most people probably view the Vortex line as a passing fad are probably the main reasons why people haven't explored homemade disc shooters.

This is where a homemade disk comes in. A homemade to fire stock disks wouldn't work well when disks cost around $0.30 each, around 6 times what a normal homemade dart does, plus the accuracy issues you noted.

That's why I'd rather see a cheaper, longer range disk be developed. I like the idea of using pipe insulation around the PVC rings, or maybe even using pool noodle foam if the middle is cut out of the slices.

All of this though, as far as I'm aware, still ignores the issue of how to put proper spin on the homemade disks, once made.


EDIT: Sorry Langley, I was typing this up as you posted. Could we possibly have a general group thread created to post designs, progress, and exchange problem solving ideas in? It gets overwhelming doing it alone.

Edited by HasreadCoC, 20 August 2013 - 03:27 PM.

[Langley]

Could we possibly have a general group thread created to post designs, progress, and exchange problem solving ideas in? It gets overwhelming doing it alone.

I'm not in any hurry to encourage people to post ideas and vague concepts in the hopes that someone more skilled will follow through. Anyone is welcome to post a thread asking for help if they've put a considerable amount of effort into their project and they've got lots of photos and/or data to show for it. Otherwise, they will have to put some time and effort into executing their idea, or post it on some other site. And I will just have to go on living my life, oblivious to all the really awesome things that surely must have come out of the NRev/Facebook concept committee.

[xXhunter47Xx]

Langley, please feel free to close this because I will be tempted to post more speculation in this thread if it stays open.
I have gotten a pre-lim design going on but I don't know how it will work out.



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