21 replies to this topic

[Blood Angel]

I've had this...thing for a while now, and debated many time whether or not to post it.

I've used in a total of about 4 games now (5th game coming up) and decided that if it is safe enough to use in multiple games with stock Elite streamline darts, then posting it should be fine.



So, what is it? It is a Foam Converted Arrow Gun or F-CAG for short. There were other names I was going to give it. With the Snap bow, AAbow, and other types of bows out there; the only thing that separates this is that it is a REAL bow. A real 60lb draw weight bow.

Why would I do such a thing? When I first got into nerf gaming and moding, range was all the hype. This thing can achieve ranges comparable if not vastly farther than singled Titans. Also, because of its optional hopper system it can shoot as fast as you can pull the string back. The range of this thing is only limited by its ammunition. The heavier the dart, the farther it will shoot.

So how far does it shoot? I don't actually know. Really really effing far. To give you an idea, it can shoot a stock elite streamline dart unmodified across 1.5 to 2 basketball courts PTG using my sealed breech barrel. Unfortunately, the stock dart will create a large spiral pattern and not be very accurate. The range and accuracy will actually depends on two things:
1) the dart used and 2) the barrel system used.

There are two main types of barrels that I use with this thing:
1) fully sealed breech barrel



2) hopper wye system


The hopper wye system barrel was made to be played with stock elite streamline darts cut in half. So, obviously the range is much farther with the fully sealed breech and super heavy darts. In fact, even with the extra space the hopper provides I still needed to add barrel porting and vents to bleed off the extra pressure behind the darts that cause the darts to fly wonky as it leaves the barrel.



The thing is that in the nerf community everyone measures range with the barrel parallel to the ground. With this thing, that isn't the case. There is so much pressure that upon exiting the barrel the dart actually rises a little before it falls. So my first range pin is actually slightly lower than parallel to ground. For those of you who know nothing of archery, there are pin sights that archers use to aim. If you look at my bow there is rubber tube attached to my bow string. That is a self adjusting peep sight. I look through that and then focus on my range pins in the front.

There is a bubble level to ensure my bow isn't tilted and multiple pins that represent different distances. What does mean? It means that my F-CAG bow can hit you accurately even when angled. And yes, I have done it in multiple games with much success. This homemade is not just a theory, it is a battle tested and well tuned foam slinger.

In short, this homemade is a real bow with the range of a singled titan, with firing speed as fast as you can pull back the bow string, and the accuracy of a rear plus front sight. There is no pumping, no guessing as to barrel aiming, and angled shots are a viable option.

[BiwinningPanda]

Nice design! I would definitely build one of these, but I have a few questions first: What is the name of the bow you used?
What did you have to do to the bow to attach the plunger system?
Have you used it out in public? If so, has it caused any trouble with law enforcement?
Thanks in advance.

[Craftsman]

That looks like a lot of fun... You think this could be done on a smaller scale, for an easier draw? I may have to make one of these!

[Asamere]

How hard do you think it would be to replicate this?

Other than that I am left to wonder. How have Stefans gone with this, Do they hit too hard? Would you reccomend a weaker bow for using them?

I think it looks very nice and kinda want one of my own now. Would love to hear more about this.

[Blood Angel]

That's a lot of questions.

The specific bow used is a "Diamond Infinity Edge." However, any bow can be use as long as it has a standard double pin mount (which most bows do have).

It attaches the same way most things attach to a limb mount, with two screws. The plunger is connected to the sting by a clip that is screwed in.


Most of this is standard for the airowgun which was made to shoot paintballs
http://www.airowgun.com/paint.php

I have used it in public, in games, which are played at a local elementary school next to a park. I have not had any problems with law enforcement yet. The barrels are tapped bright orange just in case.
http://bayareaburn.webs.com/photos

For someone my size (about 5'7") my draw length is 25", even still this thing is putting out extreme pressure. Making it smaller would probably be even better and more efficient.

I had thoughts of replicating this using PVC and tubing. It doesn't seem like it would be difficult. Big 5 sells a 21 lb bows for $60 http://www.big5sport...nd-bow-kit.html and 21 lbs seem like it would be more than plenty. The hard parts would be attaching the plunger system to the string and attaching the plunger system to the bow.

I tend not to use stefans because there is less consistency with their production, and because there is a safety concern. The airowgun will shoot stock elite unmodified streamline darts pretty hard already. A fishing weight with washer and felt tipped slug stefan to the temple will certainly knock someone out (no question). With 60lbs of draw at 25" of pull, the heavier the dart the better. A dart would have to weight ounces before you get to decreased ranges.

[andtheherois]

Looking through the pictures, I'm surprised they let you use that thing, considering it looks like everyone else is using factory blasters.

[Blood Angel]

Stock ammunition is kind of a rule where I play. So it is natural to use stock blasters. In the beginning, most of us were using Orange Mod Works stuff. Then Ultra fire batteries, and we have a few people with homemade snap bows, moded panthers, and +bows

The way the area is laid out, stock elite blasters are really the way to go. Lighter, faster rate of fire, and quick reload.

Long range blasters have their place, but it needs the support or other team players.

[481IceDragon]

How does this setup treat the bow? I would be concerned about it basically being like dryfiring the bow, which can cause some major facial rearrangements when your fiberglass and other plastics compound bow shatters in your face.. I've watched it happen. Does the setup you have apply enough resistance on the bow to be used safely?

This is a really cool Idea, and the way you describe it with the hopper setup makes it seem like it would do quite well in a war in an open area.

Edited by 481IceDragon, 30 March 2013 - 12:14 AM.

[makeitgo]

'481IceDragon', on 30 Mar 2013 - 05:11 AM, said:

How does this setup treat the bow? I would be concerned about it basically being like dryfiring the bow, which can cause some major facial rearrangements when your fiberglass and other plastics compound bow shatters in your face.. I've watched it happen. Does the setup you have apply enough resistance on the bow to be used safely?...

It's originally designed to shoot paintballs and perform in this manner. I don't believe it will shatter.

Blood Angel, nice conversion. You might want to add a little more toyish colors just in case. What is the ID of the main plunger tube?
I'm interested to see how it performs with Stefans. I'm surprised you haven't tried it yet.

[Tangerle]

My immediate reaction was "WOW! that looks sick!". That's awesome.

[TED]

You should just call it the Foam Arrow Gun.

[481IceDragon]

'TED', on 31 Mar 2013 - 12:32 AM, said:

You should just call it the Foam Arrow Gun.

I second this motion.

I'm not sure I'm quite understanding this..this bow is technically not a "real" bow as something you would use for hunting, it was intended for paintball? I thought this was something you Jerry-rigged onto your compound hunting bow to pwn n00bs, not a "factory" setup.

[snakerbot]

'481IceDragon', on 31 Mar 2013 - 04:46 AM, said:

I second this motion.

I'm not sure I'm quite understanding this..this bow is technically not a "real" bow as something you would use for hunting, it was intended for paintball? I thought this was something you Jerry-rigged onto your compound hunting bow to pwn n00bs, not a "factory" setup.

It's definitely a real compound bow. The Airow Gun he linked to is an attachment to make a compound bow shoot paintballs, which it looks like he modified to shoot darts instead.

[Blood Angel]

'481IceDragon', on 31 Mar 2013 - 04:46 AM, said:

I second this motion.

I'm not sure I'm quite understanding this..this bow is technically not a "real" bow as something you would use for hunting, it was intended for paintball? I thought this was something you Jerry-rigged onto your compound hunting bow to pwn n00bs, not a "factory" setup.

It is a real 60lb draw weight, 25 inch draw, dual cam, solid limb bow. I can definitely use "it" (The specific bow used is a "Diamond Infinity Edge" bow) for hunting. I am able to use that particular bow to shot a 300 score on a Vegas target sheet at 20 yards with at least 150X using carbon fiber Warrior brand target point arrows.

The Airow Gun system is intended for paintballs OR .22 cal pellets. The factory setup "Airow Gun" was "Jerry-rigged" or converted to shot foam products instead of paintballs.

'TED', on 31 Mar 2013 - 12:32 AM, said:

You should just call it the Foam Arrow Gun.

Pretty sure calling this thing the Foam Arrow Gun or "FAG" would not go over to well with a large group of people. Considering I play in San Francisco fairly often.

[shmmee]

I usually don't chime in - unless it's really cool.
I bow hunt (or at least i try 3 years and I have yet to be able to take an actual shot) but one of the bigger challenges is ranging your target. Deer never wander in at the preset pin set up (or so I'm told) they're always somewhere in between pins - and you never have time to reach for your range finder. That set up makes a great trainer for learning that skill.
I'm also glad you've opted for a factory established base. I could just imagine a homemade plunger rod coming loose, bursting through the pt and firing like an arrow from a 60 pound bow - while it's aimed at another human being. Scary stuff.

[Draconis]

I usually don't chime in, but when I do, it is usually because I see something ridiculous. Nothing about this "blaster" seems safe at all. Too much power, too much volume, too much "Yes mister officer, I'd really enjoy it if you would shoot me in the face and destroy our sport forever." You can bet your bippy that I wouldn't let you use it at one of my wars.

[Blood Angel]

'shmmee', on 09 Apr 2013 - 3:57 PM, said:

I usually don't chime in - unless it's really cool.
I bow hunt (or at least i try 3 years and I have yet to be able to take an actual shot) but one of the bigger challenges is ranging your target. Deer never wander in at the preset pin set up (or so I'm told) they're always somewhere in between pins - and you never have time to reach for your range finder. That set up makes a great trainer for learning that skill.
I'm also glad you've opted for a factory established base. I could just imagine a homemade plunger rod coming loose, bursting through the pt and firing like an arrow from a 60 pound bow - while it's aimed at another human being. Scary stuff.

Exactly. While I'm sure this setup can be homemade easily, there is something to be said for the factory specs. Although I would like to see someone make a successful homemade one with a cheap "Big 5" store bow. But to be anywhere near as effective as the factory spec, it would need a minimum or a rear peep sight and front pin.

If you notice the setup and how the air travels, you will have to hold the bow in position a little bit longer after the string is released. So as to give the air time to travel and push the dart out of the barrel. I find that this re-enforces good habits, as most archers drop their bows too soon after release (mostly to see their shots). Since I only have 3 pins, I find myself using the space between the top and middle pin most often. I tend to use body parts as a sort of "range markers" for the in-between pins. Example: Placing the top pin just above the head instead of center mass or the middle pin on the waist line instead of center mass.

'Draconis', on 18 Apr 2013 - 12:31 AM, said:

I usually don't chime in, but when I do, it is usually because I see something ridiculous. Nothing about this "blaster" seems safe at all. Too much power, too much volume, too much "Yes mister officer, I'd really enjoy it if you would shoot me in the face and destroy our sport forever." You can bet your bippy that I wouldn't let you use it at one of my wars.

No argument here. It is ridiculous. There is too much power, too much volume per square inch, too much over pressure, and it is a real bow (so it is subject to the same laws of archery and perhaps even paintball guns). But then again so are any Nerf blasters (**in the state of California**). To include custom paint jobs, NXT Generation bow, and NXT Generation crossbow



My point is that the alpha trooper above looks like a SCAR and the NXT Generation series all look and function like real bows and crossbows. And all blasters are subject to the same scrutiny (according to Section 12550( c ) of the Title 2 of Part 4 of the Penal Code regarding "imitation firearm").

I never really thought about what I was making until it was too late. I wanted something that could out-range singled Titans, and in that goal I have succeeded. A system that's range is only limited only by the munition used.

As for being safe, I do use other blasters (masterkey, pump retaliator, and pump longshot).

If I was running an event I would be cautious about this thing too. I mean, look at it. I was actually expecting more comments like the ones from this older topic: http://nerfhaven.com...tring bow&st=0 because frankly it is ridiculous. In a world where singled Titans, AA bows, 20kg spring snapbows, +bows, and other ridiculous homemades are around where do you draw the line? With washer tip slugs, fishing weight domes, and .50 cal sili tips how can you determine what is acceptable and what is not? Rhetorical questions. I merely wanted to post this to show how ridiculous the bar could go without the use of explosives. If this idea can be tamed, it would be one heck of a homemade.

[Blood Angel]

'481IceDragon', on 30 Mar 2013 - 05:11 AM, said:

How does this setup treat the bow? I would be concerned about it basically being like dryfiring the bow, which can cause some major facial rearrangements when your fiberglass and other plastics compound bow shatters in your face.. I've watched it happen. Does the setup you have apply enough resistance on the bow to be used safely?

This is a really cool Idea, and the way you describe it with the hopper setup makes it seem like it would do quite well in a war in an open area.

As long as the string is attached to the plunger tube, all of the energy will be transferred into the plunger head. The plunger head is a 1.5 inch face pushing air through that big black tube, which is much much more than the energy transfer into a normal arrow. The plunger tube itself is a steel composite which is already more massive than the carbon, light aluminum, or wooden arrows most archers use.

'makeitgo', on 30 Mar 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

It's originally designed to shoot paintballs and perform in this manner. I don't believe it will shatter.

Blood Angel, nice conversion. You might want to add a little more toyish colors just in case. What is the ID of the main plunger tube?
I'm interested to see how it performs with Stefans. I'm surprised you haven't tried it yet.

I thought about painting it bright green or elite series blue. The ID is about 1.5inches. I haven't tried stefans yet because I just don't have a need to make any. The games I go to requires stock ammunition only. Its safer and stefans would be unsafe with this thing.

[koree]

First of all, this is basically a paintball gun converted into a nerf blaster. This in itself is looked down upon due to the questionable legality of using such things in the venues we often play in. However, that can occasionally be ignored based on venue etc. What I think can NEVER be ignored is what this thing actually is. It's a REAL LETHAL WEAPON converted to shoot nerf darts. That is incredibly stupid.

Edited by koree, 20 April 2013 - 11:44 PM.

[Griever 2112]

I got to agree with Koree. If you took that thing and put it with an Aabow, I would think there would be less of a backlash. but the fact that the delivery system is a fully functioning compound bow, an actual weapon used for hunting (and by obvious connotation killing) of game, to me that is completely irresponsible and unacceptable. God help us if you got caught by a Cop using that thing.


Ideas are great, but sometimes com on sense is a little better. I'm sure I could convert a bolt action springer air soft rifle to shoot darts... doesn't mean its something I'm going to build.

[The lord of fish]

I disagree with the mentality that this is more dangerous than a singled titan. He's using a factory kit that he converted to shoot nerf darts. Sure, a converted paintball gun is stupidly dangerous, but he's running around with a bow, not anything gun shaped. Sure, he's using a real bow instead of a shitty pvc one, at least he doesn't have to worry about any pvc limbs shattering. The 60lb draw is unnecessary though, a 20lb draw would suffice, and you would net a fast rate of fire.
He's also playing in the SF area, I guarantee you the most he will get from a cop is just some questions, as long as he cooperates and isn't a dick, I doubt anything would happen. Common sense when dealing with law enforcement. Generally they are less lenient with anything gun shaped, especially if its colored like a real gun. If he slapped some hot neon on that bow with some fluffy shit and sparkles, he would get no problems.

Ultimately it is up to the host of the war regarding the legality of the blasters, I tend to go by the "You have to be able to shoot yourself in the face point blank without flinching" rule for anything questionable.

I think this is pretty cool, even though it goes against the "toyness" of nerfing.

[Zorns Lemma]

This thread was marginally useful at best and now its turned into a totally irrelevant discussion.