53 replies to this topic

[Blood Angel]

Just curious to see what people think.

From my own personal experience, the Vortex series is no joke on the field. The disks are fast, hard to see (for dodging),
and get great ranges. I've even seen disks curve around trees to get people out. With the Vortex blasters modding is as
simple as increasing voltage.

The N-strike streamline blasters are ammo heavy beasts with so many options. You can have 6, 12, 18, 24, 35 rd clips, or
you can just have an infinite belt fed Vulcan. Streamline darts are cheaper by volume and there is no shortage of mod out there.

Edited by Blood Angel, 05 July 2012 - 08:52 PM.

[Schwaggy]

The vortex line is cool but honestly I still prefer my clip fed blasters and other streamline blasters more. The disks, when outdoors, get thrown off direction by the tiniest breeze. Indoors, the disks bounce off everything and can sometimes be very tough to find. This, of course, is no good when comparing the cost of the two options.

[Buffdaddy]

EDIT: Ignore post; I apologize for backseat moderating.

Edited by Buffdaddy, 06 July 2012 - 09:47 AM.

[TagMaster247]

It comes down to two aspects: Personal preference and the situation. Whichever one you like is the one you should use. The situation can be defined as what type of situation you're in, like an indoor battle against stock blasters or an outdoor battle with modded blasters. If you are having trouble which blaster you'd like to throw in the bag to take to the war, take all of the ones you can't decide between/among. Try them ALL out. Experiment. Even if you just use that blaster for one round, you can generally get a good idea as to how well it will perform in that area of "combat".

Just my two cents.

P.s. There are no 36 dart drums or magazines. Only 35 dart drums. Also, the Praxis is currently one of my favorite blasters.

Edited by TagMaster247, 05 July 2012 - 07:38 PM.

[BiwinningPanda]

Don't ever under any circumstances post a ``which gun is best'' thread.

From the new users guide.
Edit:Oops...

Edited by BiwinningPanda, 06 July 2012 - 01:34 PM.

[Daniel Beaver]

It also says not to backseat moderate. I'll give you guys a chance to have a legitimate discussion about vortex blasters vs the modern dart shooters, but I'll close the thread the moment it devolves into a "which gun is the best". There is distressingly little content in this thread as is. Also, don't cop out and just say "Oh, they have their pluses and minuses, use what you like". Let's see some fucking flames flying.

As for the topic at hand:
I think the vortex blasters are clearly, unambiguously better than the N-Strike line in terms of raw performance. I had a couple of stock wars with about half and half Vortex and NStrike blasters, and it was frankly embarrassing how badly the dart shooters performed in comparison. Not only do the vortex discs shoot 50-75% farther, they also maintain their velocity throughout their flight (I actually tested this on my chrono awhile back if you want to search for my post). Though it is exceedingly difficult to hit people past 30ft or so, you can take potshots at significantly longer distances, which forces your opponents to react.

One major downside of the Vortex guns is the lack of access to decent sized clips. You basically need to buy a Nitron to get a 20 round clip for your Praxis, so the majority of people will be stuck using 10 round clips. Recons with 35 round drums have a hell of an ammo capacity advantage by comparison, but even those are rare. In any case, reloading magazines in the middle of a round is fucking lame and stupid, and counts against both in terms of fun factor; I actually started using the single shot proton a lot in the second war because I was so annoyed at having to reload my gun so goddamn often. I don't know how you "clippys" stand that shit, it is the anti-fun.

TBH, I still think the the Dart Tag Blaster / Hyperfire is a superior solution. It doesn't shoot as far as a Vortex blaster, but you can reload it super fast and maintain a long-term ROF much better than clip fed blasters. And naturally, the new Elite blasters sort of render this point moot, since they shoot about as far as vortex blasters.


A side note: the wind totally fucks all nerf darts, but vortex discs in particular. But hopefully you aren't playing outdoors with these things.

Edited by Daniel Beaver, 05 July 2012 - 10:38 PM.

[zx532]

It is a bit big, but I like using the Vigilon as a secondary. It has range, and rate of fire, and you can reload and still keep a disk ready to fire. (also wall bounce hits are just badass)

But as a primary I use darts, much more accurate (even the ones that tumble at least go in a straight line)

[Jeo]

Vortex can be fun, but like anything it has it's uses.

For example, even though the Nitron is objectively terrible, it's fun to fire off three or four discs in quick succession. They'll all float in a similar trajectory, but not identical, so you end up with this slow moving large mass of discs that become really hard to dodge. Sure you could probably achieve the same thing with one dart from a longshot, moving fast enough that they don't have a chance to dodge, but a mass of discs is more interesting.

[Draconis]

This is a noob cop-out of a poll. Seriously, do you work for Hasbro or something? What about the Buzzbee Ultimate series? What about the Lanard clear blasters? Even if we remain Hasbro-centric, Why only those two? What about Dart Tag? Why stop there? In my opinion, the Cyberstrike and Maxforce lines were far more creative than current blasters. The Vortex line is just too complicated and break too easily. And while the Elite line may fix some the more glaring problems with the N-Strike blasters, they aren't even as creative as the blasters in the Nerf Wii game from two years ago.

[Jeo]

Because the Buzzbee Ultimate series, the Lanard clear blasters, the Dart Tag range, etc, all still fire darts? Discs are different to darts.

I read the thread not so much as a Vortex vs specifically N-Strike, but rather a more general discussion of the pros and cons of discs vs darts.

[Schwaggy]

Personally, the majority of my wars are indoors. My house is fairly large but the floor plan makes for close quarter battles most of the time. A few areas require a somewhat longer range but this can simply be solved by sprinting for a second to get a bit closer. In my scenario, we primarily play with stock (a few are basic AR removal/slightly upgraded spring), simply because we have no need to shoot 100'. The N-Strike series blasters are the clear choice. Give me my AT and a Recon, one on my back, and 1. You are not going to beat my ROF unless using a Nitron (which sucks IMO due to the delay between trigger pull and firing) and 2. You will never out gun me because I have four 18 round drums on me...

With all of that being said, when we play outdoors ranges of ~50' are entirely possible. For something like this the Vortex series really shine, unless, as I stated earlier a breeze or anything of the sort picks up. Even in this outdoor battle, the pro's for N-strike I outlined earlier are still in full effect; Faster ROF and much more ammunition. We aren't playing the "hide behind the bunkers on either end of the yard and take hail marys at the opposition" game though so extra range, while nice to have, isn't going to make or break much if anything at all.

Game type, environment, and personal play style are what will really determine which series of blaster work for you.

Edited by Schwaggy, 06 July 2012 - 12:13 AM.

[proplus]

Honestly really if it wern't for dart shooters these forums and communities wouldn't exist.
while vortex has nice range blasters they're Practically useless for any application we recognized (homemades intigrations stefans.
so this question is rather illogical.

[Guitarzan]

I'm definitely a bigger fan of the N-strike series. Vortex has superior range, but that's cause they shoot miniature frisbees. The initial velocity of the N-strike blasters is what makes them more appealing to me, especially with the elite series being released. The vortex blasters just shoot so stinkin slow that enemies have time to evade and even laugh at how pathetically slow the frisbee is travelling. The modding potential is higher for the N-strike as well. The elite blasters actually have the potential for things like barrel replacements. As far as I know, the only known way to mod a vortex blaster is to either replace the torsion spring or move it to a new position so that it gets more compression. lame.

With indoor stock dart wars, my friends and I allow for ricochet hits from a vortex disc to be counted as a live hit. This does redeem the vortex series a bit and makes them pretty fun to use.

Edited by Guitarzan, 06 July 2012 - 01:52 AM.

[Jeo]

Practically useless for any application we recognized (homemades intigrations stefans.
so this question is rather illogical.

Because literally nothing exists outside of high powered wars.

[Griever 2112]

I've played around with the Proton, just too see what the Vortex series was like. I was impressed with the design and the ability for the discs to bounce off walls. I have a 10x10 office and I was able to get a 3 wall ricochet before it dropped. But for a NIC war setting, it would have decent ranges stock, but those things are a bigger pain to mod than the Dart Tag blasters, and all the work for the torsion spring relocation, to me is not worth the 10-15 feet and lose of more accuracy. Also a lot of wars are outdoors, the discs are green and so is the grass we play on. Disc recovery would be a nightmare. For indoor wars, if you were playing on a large scale like Gridcode, they would be perfect; range, distance, accuracy (to a point) if your good at physics great for the bounce hit (again provided accuracy) But for an outdoor NIC war, they have too many variables that would make them out gunned very easily.

[Daniel Beaver]

The initial velocity of the N-strike blasters is what makes them more appealing to me, especially with the elite series being released. The vortex blasters just shoot so stinkin slow that enemies have time to evade and even laugh at how pathetically slow the frisbee is travelling.

What if I told you that Vortex blasters have a higher initial velocity than N-strike blasters (60fps vs 45fps)? And moreover, that their velocity drops off slower than N-strike blasters? They seem slower, but are not.

Edited by Daniel Beaver, 06 July 2012 - 08:21 AM.

[Draconis]

Because the Buzzbee Ultimate series, the Lanard clear blasters, the Dart Tag range, etc, all still fire darts? Discs are different to darts.

I read the thread not so much as a Vortex vs specifically N-Strike, but rather a more general discussion of the pros and cons of discs vs darts.

The UMB fires darts? The Lanard Tri-Blaster fires darts? The Titan (ORIGINAL N-Strike, no less) fires darts? Perhaps we need to expand your horizons a little?

[TagMaster247]

I think he meant the Buzzbee Ultimate series, which included the Sn1pe Blast, UMB, etc.

[Meaker VI]

I love shooting my Vigilon around the house, but I'm terrified to take it outside; those little Frisbees are too expensive to justify buying a ton of them and loosing them. Which is what I think is killing the vortex lineup- there hasn't been a really good, cheap, method for producing homemade discs the same way there has been for darts. Sure there was a discussion on it, and I think it came up with a fairly obvious solution (Cut discs out of PVC with pipe insulation around it), but it hasn't caught on. Similarly, there is yet to be a vortex homemade of any kind, and I think that is because there aren't any readily-available solutions to firing discs like there are for darts.

Edited by Meaker VI, 06 July 2012 - 12:51 PM.

[Briguy52]

Vortex Line
In terms of overall Reliability, Power, Range, and Accuracy, I would say that the Vortex line wins out. Most indoor/ stock dart wars are more geared towards RoF than accuracy/ranges so the pump action/ slam fire blasters/ electric are generally somewhat dominant. However, unlike the Praxis for instance, the slam fire dart blasters (at least the Raider) eat darts for breakfast while my Praxis never jammed once, even in slam fire, before I traded it for a Long Shot. The main downside for the Vortex line indoors would be the necessity for surplus magazines/clips unless you're using the Vigilon or the Proton, which don't offer quite the firepower that the Praxis is capable of achieving.

Dart Tag Line
So for the 1st/2nd gen Dart Tag blasters (ie Red, Blue, Orange, Green before Swarmfires and the likes, and counting out the Dart Tag Nite Finders), I would say that they offered good RoF but with pretty horrible performance in other categories. For instance, the DTB or Hyperfire had a nice open 10 round turret but was an ergonomic disaster (at least to me). The top priming handle (similar to a Maverick or Recon's) could have been relocated to the foregrip which would have helped the whole balance factor a lot. Also, I found that after firing the taggers out a couple times, they would pop out of the turret (with the ARs in of course) and be a general pain in the but. Crossfires/ Strikefires were just revamped Scouts that were outclassed by the Proton and Nite Finder. The Furyfire, though pump action and pretty comfy to use, had absolutely crap ranges.

With the newer Dart Tag blasters, we got another Scout remake, two more slam fire dart eaters, and the Swarmfire. The Speedswarm is just the dumbed down version of the Swarmfire and is not worth getting. If you want a reliable, high RoF, indoor blaster, with a turret, I would definitely go for the Swarmfire. With the necessary battery upgrades, it can achieve a good RoF. The Quick 16 and Speedload 6 just suck in general. Blue trigger or not, they only use taggers, jam like a band, and have crappy ranges. Yes, they can reload on the fly but there's no point in reloading if you're just going to jam the dart. Since the Snapfire has not been "officially released", I'm not going to include it, but it seems very promising for indoors/ stock wars.

N-Strike
The clip system line is actually quite promising once modified, but that's the main catch. A stock Long Shot just sucks. A stock Raider just sucks. Most blasters require either aftermarket kits (ie OMW), key modifications, or even an Elite counterpart (*cough* Raider *cough*) to achieve reliable ranges. The Nite Finder is obviously a beast once it's modified, and is so simple even I can do it. However, unless you're in a massive indoor stadium, you'll be out-performed by someone Raider spamming. I really think that we're leaving out the electric blasters. The simplest battery replacement with a couple of Trustfires and a dummy battery you can make with spare wire can drastically buff the Rayven. I just added another battery box to the side and with about 5 minutes of solder work can get a high RoF blaster, that uses clips without jamming issues, and gets a lot more muzzle velocity than an AR removed and power-stocked Raider. Of course, accuracy is limited, but if you're playing indoors with stock darts, that is not an issue. The high RoF airblasters with bladders (ie RF20, Magstrike, Powerclip, Wildfire, etc.) are pretty good but require some serious pumping. Vulcan/ Stampede require some electrical work (unless you're just looking to buff the RoF) and I ended up killing my Stampede gear box while doing so.

Others
Rocket/Missile type blasters are a heck of a ton of fun of course, especially when there's cardboard boxes and Titans and people hiding behind said boxes involved. Yes, you need to pump them up, but the satisfaction of a direct Titan hit is only matched by getting someone with a stomp rocket. Also, the ballistic ball blasters are quite fun, especially if you're Bobololo and happen to have multiple Pulsators on hand. But still, the vastly underrated Buzz Saw is pretty cool as well. Yes, basically everyone in the house can hear exactly where you are, but it is pretty amusing to dump out 4 ballistic balls at someone in rapid fire. The BBB is pretty cool as well, especially because you can just shove a marker barrel in there and shoot both arrows and darts. I haven't exactly had much experience with other brand arrow/missile launchers other than the BBBB and the UMB/BBUMB but they don't really perform as nicely as the Titan. (On a side note, my TRU has still been stocking the Unity Power System sets for the last 8 years since they were released. I don't even know if any of the other retailers had stocked the UPS originally but they obviously don't now).

[Guitarzan]

What if I told you that Vortex blasters have a higher initial velocity than N-strike blasters (60fps vs 45fps)? And moreover, that their velocity drops off slower than N-strike blasters? They seem slower, but are not.

I don't mean this in any personal way against you but I would ask to see proof. I definitely believe the vortex discs maintain their initial velocity for the duration of flight though.

[Jeo]

The UMB fires darts? The Lanard Tri-Blaster fires darts? The Titan (ORIGINAL N-Strike, no less) fires darts? Perhaps we need to expand your horizons a little?

Ok, so specifically cherry pick an assortment of blasters from each series that don't fire darts just to derail the thread. Mad skills.

Of the 5 Ultimate series blasters I'm aware of, 3 fire darts (eat shit blast, rapid blast and tek 10), 1 fires missiles (missile blast, and 1 fires both (beserker).
Lanard clear series? Tri-blaster fires balls, the triple shot, shell shock and rotator all fires dart.
You hadn't brought up N-Strike until now, but what the hell. When people talk about the N-Strike range, I can guarantee you that they think of it as a dart based range. Sure there is the Titan and BBB that have both been released under the N-Strike name that don't fire darts, but I can think of 24 others that do (without including repaints).


Perhaps you need to expand your horizons a little?

[Seprest]

What if I told you that Vortex blasters have a higher initial velocity than N-strike blasters (60fps vs 45fps)? And moreover, that their velocity drops off slower than N-strike blasters? They seem slower, but are not.

Daniel, are you sure? I could swear we tested this at the last HvZ game I was at, as we had "that guy" with the disc blasters. I think we did side by side comparison with his stuff and a Longstrike as to what would hit a wall 20ft away first. Maybe the N-strike blaster was modded but I think we controlled for mods. This is indeed an interesting thing, and will be to the delight of disc blaster users if it is true; many believe the reverse to be true!

Edited by Seprest, 06 July 2012 - 10:19 PM.

[Zook]

I've had a lot of experience running casual indoor games with N-Strike vs Vortex and the balance has always been interesting. Players tend to adapt to whatever strengths or weaknesses they start to catch onto mid-game, so there weren't really any continuous trends that I could follow. From trying to out-range opponents with disks to trying to overpower opponents with a flurry of darts, each side tried to take advantage of the obvious differences in each system.

We held our first N-Strike vs Vortex game shortly after Vortex was launched. It was 5 on 5 indoor games. You can see more information on how that initial game went down to get an idea of what it was like. N-Strike vs Vortex Game

[BK201]

When my friends and I have played with stock blasters the vortex series takes and advantage during certain situations, such as any long distances, and scenarios when storming the other "side" is illegal or impossible. The rules we play by death by a shot to the head 2 to the body or 3 to the limbs, no combinations, make it so the consistency of the vortex blaster's shots stand out, since its easier to headshot someone. However when one group can storm the other generally the clip systems ability to just launch a massive amount of darts allows them to crush the competition. I've noticed that the disks seem to mysteriously disappear from seemingly clean locations(all furniture is completely covered in sheets when battles occur to make finding ammo easy) even in a car with the windows closed on the way home from buying the Vigilon we lost 2 disks.