20 replies to this topic

[JohhnyTopside]

I was milling around the JSPB site this morning and found that 3DBBQ (or whoever runs the site) had posted a section on Nerf "fighting skills". Thinking I would learn the ways of the 3DBBQ nerf ninja, I clicked it.
Here is the link.
Most of the page I couldn't understand due to Google Translate not being the best, but a certain point caught my eye.

Accelerate the projectile:
Small pistol series can take advantage of the projectile firing punches, you can increase the range of 25%

If I read it right, it seems he makes a punching motion while firing smaller guns to give them a small range boost.(Kinda like "Wanted"?) Does anyone do this or has anyone tried it? I will be testing it once the epoxy on my NF is dry, but this seems pretty cool. I'll post my findings later.

[Jilliop]

I was milling around the JSPB site this morning and found that 3DBBQ (or whoever runs the site) had posted a section on Nerf "fighting skills". Thinking I would learn the ways of the 3DBBQ nerf ninja, I clicked it.
Here is the link.
Most of the page I couldn't understand due to Google Translate not being the best, but a certain point caught my eye.

If I read it right, it seems he makes a punching motion while firing smaller guns to give them a small range boost.(Kinda like "Wanted"?) Does anyone do this or has anyone tried it? I will be testing it once the epoxy on my NF is dry, but this seems pretty cool. I'll post my findings later.

Me and my friends call these "thrust shots". Sexual, but it gets the point across. In any case, from my experience they do make darts go a good deal farther, but you really have to punch as you pull the trigger. This also makes them wildly inaccurate. If you can master it though, it seems like you could use it to a huge advantage.

[Daniel Beaver]

The velocity at which you can throw a punch is somewhere between 10-30mph for a regular person (the sources I checked don't exactly agree). 20mph is about 30fps, which is fairly significant. A springer pistol with a 60ft range shoots at about 100fps, so you're adding about 30% more velocity to the dart.

Not that it matters, because you can't hit jack shit if you're flailing around like that. You don't succeed in nerf by out-ranging your opponent - you succeed by actually hitting your target. Sacrificing accuracy for range is almost always counter-productive.

Edited by Daniel Beaver, 03 July 2012 - 10:52 AM.

[Draconis]

I think that it is rare for any of us to actually succeed at nerfing.

[Daniel Beaver]

If you guys find it fun, then by all means flail and thrust away. But don't mistake it for an effective tactic.

[Buffdaddy]

Obviously, our newest homemade must include both a moving plunger and a moving PT to take advantage of this phenomenon

[makeitgo]

Obviously, our newest homemade must include both a moving plunger and a moving PT to take advantage of this phenomenon

Curtousey of Orange; WhipTail

[Buffdaddy]

Curtousey of Orange; WhipTail

Correction: a USEFUL adaptation.

[JohhnyTopside]

I got the numbers in!
First I tested my modded NF named Charles, then my new stock Jolt, and finally my (badly) modded Maverick. (The numbers aren't in any real order. I wrote them kinda randomly on the paper :3.) All tests were done with the same 3 stock streamlines.


Charles
control == ~45 ft, ~46 ft, ~43 ft
punching == ~54 ft, ~57 ft, ~53 ft (Wow!)
-----------------------------------
Jolt*
control == ~25 ft, ~26 ft, ~25 ft
punching == ~46 ft, ~51 ft, ~48 ft (WOW!!1!one!)
-----------------------------------
Maverick
control == ~34 ft, ~35 ft, ~34 ft
punching == ~25 ft, ~24 ft, ~24 ft (wow.)
-----------------------------------
So overall it does increase range but it decreases accuracy. My theory as to why the Maverick's range sucks while using the punching technique is that the barrel rotates when you pull the trigger, and punching may cause the dart to hit the side of the front "barrel" thing, spinning them out of control.

Overall, you guys were right, and Daniel Beaver is right in that you don't really need this technique in a real Nerf war, but you look kinda bad ass like the people in Wanted....
On another note... Makeitgo, what the hell is that? I think I want one 0_o
*The Jolt is awesome and if you don't have one, get one. If you have one, get another!

[Seprest]

I tried this in my backyard after I saw the UBCon video.  You can definitely get better ranges, and not all the much to the detriment of your accuracy.  You would probably only do this for a blaster with limited range, such as a lightly modified Nerf blaster, and only to hit things further away.  The accuracy of normal streamlines at 50ft+ even in my blasters that can hit 80ft was not so different than the accuracy of normal streamlines punch-shot.  Let's not be so anal about accuracy, most blasters being used today are wildly inaccurate past medium (30ft) range.  If you can practice thrusting so that the barrel remains traveling in the intended vector, then the bunch method is well worth the effort to master.

I'm talking about stock or lightly modified blasters that don't see ranges of over 40-50ft, what most Nerf users have (not the people who are making homemades or singling blasters)

Edited by Seprest, 03 July 2012 - 09:52 PM.

[Blood Angel]

My buddies and I use this technique quite often. I personally call it a "dart push" or "dart pushing"

The motion of punching, thrusting, or pushing the blaster straight out forward during the trigger
pull is fairly effective and can be very useful. There are times this technique can change the game.
Sometimes it turns an inaccurate stock blaster into a more accurate ranged blaster. The down fall,
I would say, is that it decreases firepower. Taking the time to punch the blaster out, takes away
from the speed of quickly priming the blaster for a second shot.

Nerf blasters themselves are not all that accurate when stock and firing streamlines (that may or
may not have been stepped on). The cleaar loss is in stability (moving from multiple points of contact
to a single hand); however, the increase in velocity CAN increase range, accuracy, and consistency.
Which is why believe, "Small pistol series can take advantage of the projectile firing punches..."
I don't think the bigger heavier raider, longshot, or longstrike will work as well. Also, one must
have the correct amount of room to do said technique. It is rare that this technique can be done behind
cover effectively.


To recap:

Pros-
Increased Velocity
Increased Range
Increased Accuracy
Increased Consistency

Cons- Decreased
Decreased Firing Rate
Decreased Weapon Stability
Increased Exposure to Enemy Fire
Needs Room to Execute

There are definitely times to use it and times where it is a waste of time and darts. Sometimes there are
lucky ranged hits, and in numbers it causes a reaction from the enemy. I would not use this move if you are
using stefans, high power modded blasters, or a larger/heavier blaster.

If it has already been posted as "punch firing", I guess I will have to start calling it what it really is.

Edited by Blood Angel, 03 July 2012 - 07:47 PM.

[Zorns Lemma]

Charles
control == ~45 ft, ~46 ft, ~43 ft
punching == ~54 ft, ~57 ft, ~53 ft (Wow!)
-----------------------------------
Jolt*
control == ~25 ft, ~26 ft, ~25 ft
punching == ~46 ft, ~51 ft, ~48 ft (WOW!!1!one!)
-----------------------------------
Maverick
control == ~34 ft, ~35 ft, ~34 ft
punching == ~25 ft, ~24 ft, ~24 ft (wow.)

Only the measured difference for the Jolt is significant at even the 5% confidence interval using a t-test with 4 degrees of freedom. I probably shouldn't pool variance since dart punching adds more factors but I was lazy.

[Buffdaddy]

I tried this in my backyard after I saw the UBCon video. You can definitely get better ranges, and not all the much to the detriment of your accuracy. You would probably only do this for a blaster with limited range, such as a lightly modified Nerf blaster, and only to hit things further away. The accuracy of normal streamlines at 50ft+ even in my blasters that can hit 80ft was not so different than the accuracy of normal streamlines punch-shot. Let's not be so anal about accuracy, most blasters being used today are wildly inaccurate past medium (30ft) range. If you can practice thrusting so that the barrel remains traveling in the intended vector, then the bunch method is well worth the effort to master.

I hope you're only talking about stock blaster in this case; many of us have highly accurate modified or homemade blasters past medium range.

Only the measured difference for the Jolt is significant at even the 5% confidence interval using a t-test with 4 degrees of freedom. I probably shouldn't pool variance since dart punching adds more factors but I was lazy.

What is this black magic? Logic? DIS IZ AMERICUH!

[EocDragon]

This absolutely works. Punching is one of the black art wizard techniques we use during the awfuls round to get more range out of the crappy blasters. If you want to get maximum range though, you need to run and leap forward while simulataniously punching at a 45 degree angle, pulling the trigger at the end of your punch. If you do it right, you can both quadruple your range and throw out your arm at the same time.

[Jeo]

Biggest problem I see comparing ranges is that there is practically no way to ensure that the blasters are flat when you're punching. If you've got even a slight angle on it, comparing it against a level shot is useless.

[Daniel Beaver]

Punching is one of the black art wizard techniques we use during the awfuls round to get more range out of the crappy blasters.

This is the only situation I could ever see this technique provide any benefit. Since it imparts a fixed 30fps of velocity, you could probably double the range of some completely terribly blasters. And they're inaccurate as fuck anyhow, so it's not like you have much to lose.


I guess I shouldn't discourage you guys from doing this sort of stupid shit, since it makes it that much easier to dodge your crazy inaccurate-ass darts when I nerf against you.

Edited by Daniel Beaver, 04 July 2012 - 09:57 AM.

[EocDragon]

It's hard to tell how serious your being, so I feel I should clarify.

The awfuls round is something we play in the SE, completely for fun. We cap ranges at 15'and we try not to take it too seriously.

That being said, everyone has learned to punch their blasters in order to be more effective. We don't do it for range, although the extra range is nice. We punch in order to get a higher dart velocity. As you can imagine, dodging a dart from a Tek 3 isn't terribly difficult even from 5' away, so doubling our dart velocity makes it much easier to get a hit.

On the other hand, I'm something of the resident pistol champion at our wars, and I never punch in pistol rounds. Even when I played HvZ, it was something that people rarely ever did. I think that while it has potential, the entire thing is just too complicated to provide any real benefit outside specific niche situations.

[Daniel Beaver]

We don't do it for range, although the extra range is nice. We punch in order to get a higher dart velocity.

Fair enough. High dart velocities are useful for landing shots, since it gives your opponents less time to react and dodge.

But, again, the only time this is even remotely useful is for extremely weak/awful blasters. I face-palm a little bit when I hear about people doing it with their regular primaries.

Edited by Daniel Beaver, 04 July 2012 - 09:04 PM.

[jwasko]

Excuse us for not having homemades with 10 inches of draw in a in a 2" ID plunger tube.

This hobby was built on semi-sucky primaries and questionable techniques, and I'll be damned if I stop now.

[KaneTheMediocre]

Fair enough. High dart velocities are useful for landing shots, since it gives your opponents less time to react and dodge.

But, again, the only time this is even remotely useful is for extremely weak/awful blasters. I face-palm a little bit when I hear about people doing it with their regular primaries.

Do remember that for some people, stock nerf guns ARE primaries. I can at least quadruple the max (angled) range of my maverick by dart-punching. Of course accuracy suffers, but you have to weigh that against your chances of ever getting in range. Dart punching allows nerfers using mavericks to finally outrange nerfers using pool noodles.

[Langley]

Do remember that for some people, stock nerf guns ARE primaries. I can at least quadruple the max (angled) range of my maverick by dart-punching. Of course accuracy suffers, but you have to weigh that against your chances of ever getting in range. Dart punching allows nerfers using mavericks to finally outrange nerfers using pool noodles.

Is this a joke? Regardless, I think we're done here.