Jump to content


Photo

Effective Removable Suppressor


14 replies to this topic

#1 iamthatcat

iamthatcat

    Member

  • Members
  • 77 posts
  • Location:South Philly
  • State:Pennsylvania
  • Country:United States

Posted 05 February 2012 - 08:21 PM

Eraser & Freezy had asked me about some suppressors I have been trotting out, and I have a design I'd like to share. It's removable, effective and adaptable. It uses a spent caulk tube for the main body. The plunger from inside the caulk tube is used as the endcap. The ports in the barrel can be fiddly and will require some patience, and perhaps some trial and error. The method I show uses simple tools and has a high success rate.

Here's the tools we'll use. Pretty standard except for that odd shaped, dark dremel bit. It's a very fine abrasive polishing bit that is similar to a rough pencil eraser. The weird pigtail looking piece of wire is wrapped around a 30watt soldering iron and is used to locate and start the barrel ports. The drill bit is 1/8".

Posted Image

Here's our materials. An empty caulk tube (or quickcrete for yellow!), some cottony material (I used a ripped up aquarium filter), some fbr blanks (I used pool noodle material) and a few rubber bands.

Posted Image

Fill the caulk tube with hot water. Clean the inside surface with a toothbrush to remove the caulk residue and free the plunger in the end of the tube. After it sits a few minutes, empty the water & push on the plunger (through the nozzle hole) with a blunt instrument till it falls out. Clean out the remaining caulk. Cut the nozzle off the tube. Add a starter hole to the middle of the plunger with the small burr-style dremel bit. Enlarge the hole there and at the nozzle end with your drum sander bits until they fit tightly over your barrel like so:

Posted Image

Now we'll port the barrel. Make sure that the first hole will wind up inside the caulk tube when it is fitted on the barrel. I like having the muzzle stick out a bit past the suppressor so I can really push the barrel into the coupler.

Here's the soldering iron with my weird, makeshift tool attached. Let the iron heat up for a few minutes. If the wire slips off the iron, let it heat up a minute before you try to make another hole. It should take about 10 seconds to burn each hole.

Posted Image

Here's where I placed the first port. The mark shows the inside edge of the suppressor. The hole should wind up a ways back from this to improve airflow.

Posted Image

I then marked a spot directly across from this hole with a mechanical pencil.

Posted Image

Now we can easily drill though both holes. Here I show the process repeated. This "cross" of four 1/8" holes will allow us to eyeball the rest, making construction smoother. The rest of the holes will be kept smaller.

Posted Image

Continue burning holes in the barrel in 2 lines, for a total of 16 holes. Start the second line of holes behind your original to ensure that the ports stay inside the main body.

Posted Image

Now we'll bring the ports to their final shape and smooth the interior of the barrel. I will start by running the burr dremel bit along the inside edges of the holes at an angle as pictured. I use my thumb as a brake on the collet of my janky dremel and go at a low speed to avoid scratching the interior of the barrel.

Posted Image

Now to concentrate on smoothing out the inside of the barrel port area. You can see that I have worked on the first line of holes. I will use my Stanley knife to carefully remove the debris that I can. I will go over any stubborn areas with the burr bit again. After that there are usually a few small bits of flash left. I'll use that red conical polishing bit, by hand, to remove that. The dark rubber abrasive bit is used at the very end to hone up the whole area (again by hand). It is all important that this area be completely free of any burrs or flash. If there is any effect to accuracy at all to your blaster the answer will likely be to check this area.

Posted Image

I chamfered the outside of the ports and sanded the whole area.

Posted Image

I added 4 holes to the endcap like so:

Posted Image

We can assemble it now. Push the endcap on all the way. Wrap the cottony material around the barrel and secure it with rubber bands.

Posted Image

Insert the barrel into the main body. Stuff some blanks in the space left. I used 8.

Posted Image

Push the endcap into the main body and feed the barrel through, stopping when it's flush like so:

Posted Image

Done! Shown on my BBB, since it was nearby. This is for Spring and Air powered blasters.

Posted Image

I've tweaked this design 4 or 5 times and this iteration is particularly effective. Some sophistication can be added. A 2 stage system can be implemented by adding another plunger (with perforations) in the middle of the main body. 2 caulk tubes can be linked to provide more volume. Some experimentation with the damping materials can likely yield benefits. Variables like volume, location & diameter of ports, length of the barrel between the port area and the muzzle, etc., can be played with. There are some improvements that can be done to make the suppressor easier to move from blaster to blaster and be more secure. If I manage to stay out of Guantanamo I will update this thread.

This device attempts to dampen the sound of any "pop" accompanying a dart being fired. It re-reoutes some of the air that escapes the muzzle along with the dart upon firing. The space allocated to capture the incoming air uses baffling and pressure to change the sound profile of the "muzzle report" of the blaster. It is surprisingly effective. It effectively silences the report of many blasters it's fitted to. The noise floor is lowered to the point that you will have to go in and silence the internals of your blaster thoroughly. Accuracy is unaffected if it's built carefully. Legality is a non-issue in the U.S.. Outside the U.S.? Dunno.


Testing & Basic Tuning :

1) If you seal the muzzle with your finger and blow through the breech end of the barrel there should be an easy, unrestricted flow out the ports. If there is sputtering or any resistance, and your ports are all clean and evenly shaped, make the holes larger.

2) The 4 small holes in the endcap serve a purpose. There needs to be steady airflow, but with some noticeable resistance here. Assemble the main body and endcap without the barrel. Use your finger to seal up the hole the barrel would fit through and blow through the muzzle end of the main body.

3) The packing (aquarium filter material and blanks) inside the main body needs to have some "bite" on the air flowing through it. Again we can test it by just blowing through it, checking the resistance and adjusting as necessary.

Here's some mechanical silencing methods I have had success with:

They are: carefully laid out draw extensions, self stick linoleum floor tiles as damping material, gel(silicone?) shoe insert material incorporated into the plunger padding, elastic sports wrap around the outside, neoprene and foam wraps, and quickcrete around the plunger tube (as bedding material, think tinfoil for method).

One method I have tried for gel & or rubber plunger padding is to sew & glue a slice between 2 layers of craft foam and cut it down with a stanley knife to shape. It helps to thin down the craft foam & or the plunger itself (when possible) to keep the thickness down. Craft foam compresses too much anyway. I have tried using a smaller disc of rubber cell phone cover material in the center of many setups to create a more conical shape. I haven't been able to get rubber or silicone stuff to glue up well, hence the odd methods.


Opinion:

There's some discussion as to whether this is worthwhile on a springer. I apply a simple mantra to these things. If I can do 20 things that will each give me a 1% advantage I will do those 20 things. This is one thing that you can do to help. This may not work on all blasters, in all situations, but it can be useful.


Responses:


@Z64052187 This is for air and spring. I do get enough "Pop" out of some of my springers to concern me. A similar design cut about 40% of the noise off my BBUMB. This may do better.

I built this for late night plinking and testing. I live in an apartment complex and my neighbors are... neighbors. "Because it's cool as fuck" came into play as well!!


@Curly about the soldering iron. You're right about the warping but expediency and just the speed of making the holes came into play for me. It's also possible to adjust the position of the hole while it's being made which you can't do with a drill bit.

@Beaver. The barrel vents into the "Can" portion of the suppressor. The ports vent the muzzle blast into the larger diameter open area of the caulk tube.

@Zorn's Lemma - Purely subjectively. It seems about half as loud in a small room. I attempted tests with the db meter app on my phone but the sound of the dart hitting the pillow was too loud. I can try some outside tests. Video is something I am still building upto.

@Aeromech Thanks! I've used a something similar with a hopper. The real place to be worried about losing range here is the barrel length after the ports. The dart is done accelerating by the time it hits the ports if the barrel is sized properly. That dead barrel length after the ports helps the device work though. More to your point, I think the power loss here is negligible. I don't know that the jacket would be considered deadspace. As far as this one being less effective with a clip, as long as there's a noise to be quieted, you're good.

@Z64052187 & Zorn's Lemma, I just don't have the resources to properly get accurate data for SPLs. The anechoic chamber alone (of sufficient size) would run millions of dollars. Oddly, the contested 40% figure is likely very conservative. My BBUMB (not a springer) was completely off limits after about 10:30 pm. Quite a loud crack. Somewhere near a decent pellet rifle. The dart hitting a pillow was louder than the report after I built something similar (crappier) to this for it. I'll re-iterate on the springers though. You have to silence the internals. I tried a slice of dr scholls type gel material on a NF spring perch a while back. Cost me some range but it was nice.

Edited by iamthatcat, 08 February 2012 - 11:26 AM.

  • 0

#2 Z64052187

Z64052187

    Member

  • Members
  • 22 posts
  • Location:Lafayette, IN
  • State:Indiana
  • Country:United States

Posted 05 February 2012 - 08:50 PM

This is...interesting. First off, you're correct on the legality of it, but not only because it's removable. It's not intended to suppress a real firearm, and would not do so effectively, which is what maintains its legality. If it were capable of suppressing a real firearm, then detachability would not save you.

Now, for a couple of questions:

I'm assuming this only works with tank-powered blasters, not spring-powered. I make this assumption because the darts make no discernable sound leaving the barrels of my blasters (I avoid tank-powered like the plague). The noise is, obviously, produced by the internals themselves.

So, TL:DR, this only works with tank-powered blasters, correct? Also, is that even a tank-powered blaster? I probably sound like an idiot if it's not, because it doesn't look like you pump it up. EDIT: Now I definitely feel like an idiot, because the crossbows, or crossbow-based blasters y'all make, aren't pumped. So I'm stumped.

And two, why do you need a suppressor for any dart blasters that are safe to fire at others? If the answer is "Because I could" or "Because it's cool as fuck", then please, take no offense to this question. I'm just curious if it provides any actual benefit.

By the way, this is cool as fuck.

Edited by Z64052187, 05 February 2012 - 09:14 PM.

  • 0

#3 Curly

Curly

    Member

  • Members
  • 201 posts
  • State:Ontario
  • Country:Canada

Posted 05 February 2012 - 09:24 PM

I can understand that springers wouldn't be helped much because much of their sound comes from the plunger head smashing into the front bushing. Lower pressure airguns like UMBs make a low-pitched sound so it's easier to silence. Since you've only ported the last inch or so of the barrel, the large suppression chamber is a bit overkill, but neat.

You're probably going to receive a handful of internet dick punches for making a silencer, but that's how it goes sometimes. NIC wars might not be any easier with a suppressor, but HVZ at night might disperse the sound enough to hide 'dem bushwookies a tad longer.

PS:Burning holes in CPVC and PVC is bad, mkay. Drilling often warps the inside of the barrel(which probably lead you to burning in the first place) but I might try using your burr bit or something like it.

EDIT:I forgot to mention that 2" vacuum tubing sold at hardware stores would be a cheap alternative to caulk tubes. It's too thin for a PT or pump grip, but light enough to coat a full barrel in. Using pipe insulation with a bunch of holes in it might help too.

Edited by Curly, 05 February 2012 - 09:28 PM.

  • 0

#4 Langley

Langley

    LGLF - Since 2002

  • Administrators
  • 2,988 posts

Posted 05 February 2012 - 09:40 PM

'dem bushwookies


Racist.
  • 0

You can poop in my toilet anytime champ.

2016 Nerf War Schedule
Bless you, my son. Now recite 3 New Members Guides and 5 Code of Conducts for your sins.


#5 Daniel Beaver

Daniel Beaver

    HQRSE CQCK

  • Moderators
  • 2,066 posts
  • NerfHaven Subscription Supporter
  • Location:Minneapolis
  • State:Minnesota
  • Country:United States

Posted 05 February 2012 - 09:46 PM

I haven't tried this particular design, but I did have the opportunity to play around with one at the last Apoc. I am a little confused about this design: are the vents actually part of the barrel, or is the suppressor portion wider than the barrel?

And two, why do you need a suppressor for any dart blasters that are safe to fire at others? If the answer is "Because I could" or "Because it's cool as fuck", then please, take no offense to this question. I'm just curious if it provides any actual benefit.

"Because I could" or "Because it's cool as fuck" are part of the reason, but silencing your guns actually helps more than you might think. That audible pop when a blaster fires tells people I am shooting at you, which gives them extra time to react. I can't tell you how many times I've pegged someone with a blowgun simply because they didn't realize I was shooting at them.

I'm assuming this only works with tank-powered blasters, not spring-powered. I make this assumption because the darts make no discernable sound leaving the barrels of my blasters (I avoid tank-powered like the plague). The noise is, obviously, produced by the internals themselves.

Suppressors will work best on airguns, but they can be effective on spring-powered blasters. You just need to work on silencing the main body of the blaster (e.g, stuffing it with FBR), since a lot of the noise comes from the plunger head hitting the front of the plunger tube. On a side note: PACs work very well with suppressors, since the strings stop the plunger head short of impacting the coupler.
  • 0

#6 Curly

Curly

    Member

  • Members
  • 201 posts
  • State:Ontario
  • Country:Canada

Posted 05 February 2012 - 10:00 PM

Racist.

How inappropriate of me. My apologies to MuttonChops.

I haven't tried this particular design, but I did have the opportunity to play around with one at the last Apoc. I am a little confused about this design: are the vents actually part of the barrel, or is the suppressor portion wider than the barrel?

The barrel is ported, otherwise the air can escape around the dart and still go forward. The suppressor portion just covers the holes, forcing the excess air backwards.
  • 0

#7 Zorns Lemma

Zorns Lemma

    Sir Scrt

  • Moderators
  • 1,277 posts
  • Location:Dulles International Airport
  • State:Virginia
  • Country:United States

Posted 06 February 2012 - 12:26 AM

A similar design cut about 40% of the noise off my BBUMB. This may do better.


I would like to see how you collected the data to make this statement.

JLego has one but with more ports and threaded fittings. It works enough to reduce sound from a SM750 to the trigger noise, but has almost no qualitative (much less quantitative) effect on a +bow.
  • 0
"In short, the same knowledge that underlies the ability to produce correct judgement is also the knowledge that underlies the ability to recognize correct judgement. To lack the former is to be deficient in the latter."
Kruger and Dunning (1999)

#8 Daniel Beaver

Daniel Beaver

    HQRSE CQCK

  • Moderators
  • 2,066 posts
  • NerfHaven Subscription Supporter
  • Location:Minneapolis
  • State:Minnesota
  • Country:United States

Posted 06 February 2012 - 09:02 AM

iamthatcat: thanks for the response. It works a bit differently that the one I tried, but the principle is the same.

JLego has one but with more ports and threaded fittings. It works enough to reduce sound from a SM750 to the trigger noise, but has almost no qualitative (much less quantitative) effect on a +bow.

Jlego's was the one I used - it was super nice. The +bow is definitely a "worst case" example, since all the rattling spring noises are nearly open to the elements. I would be willing to bet that some sort of string stop would go a long way towards silencing a +bowl.

This is for air and spring. I do get enough "Pop" out of some of my springers to concern me. A similar design cut about 40% of the noise off my BBUMB. This may do better.

I would like to see how you collected the data to make this statement.

Zorn, why you gotta be such a stickler with your "data" and your "science" and your "truth and reality"?

Edited by Daniel Beaver, 06 February 2012 - 09:02 AM.

  • 0

#9 Langley

Langley

    LGLF - Since 2002

  • Administrators
  • 2,988 posts

Posted 06 February 2012 - 09:07 AM

Zorn, why you gotta be such a stickler with your "data" and your "science" and your "truth and reality"?


Hey, one time I based my assumptions on anecdotal evidence, and it turned out I was totally right!
  • 0

You can poop in my toilet anytime champ.

2016 Nerf War Schedule
Bless you, my son. Now recite 3 New Members Guides and 5 Code of Conducts for your sins.


#10 Aeromech

Aeromech

    Member

  • Moderators
  • 434 posts
  • NerfHaven Supporter
  • Location:Long Island
  • State:New York
  • Country:United States
  • Aeromech on Youtube

Posted 06 February 2012 - 03:08 PM

Incredible design. Suppressors in general are fascinating, and the redirection of the airflow works well from what you are describing. I do have a question for you.

What affect would this attachment have when used in tandem with an RSCB or hopper system? Both of these systems have a greater amount of deadspace as ammunition is depleted, would the deadspace created in the jacket of the suppressor further reduce range? Also, would this suppressor be less effective with one of these clip attachments because of that increased deadspace and unshielded hopper/RSCB ammo tubes?

@iamthatcat thanks for the fast response. Definitely trying this once i get some freetime.

Edited by Aeromech, 07 February 2012 - 02:17 AM.

  • 0
Watch my shitty videos

This is so ghetto but so awesome.


#11 Z64052187

Z64052187

    Member

  • Members
  • 22 posts
  • Location:Lafayette, IN
  • State:Indiana
  • Country:United States

Posted 06 February 2012 - 03:45 PM

I haven't tried this particular design, but I did have the opportunity to play around with one at the last Apoc. I am a little confused about this design: are the vents actually part of the barrel, or is the suppressor portion wider than the barrel?


"Because I could" or "Because it's cool as fuck" are part of the reason, but silencing your guns actually helps more than you might think. That audible pop when a blaster fires tells people I am shooting at you, which gives them extra time to react. I can't tell you how many times I've pegged someone with a blowgun simply because they didn't realize I was shooting at them.


Suppressors will work best on airguns, but they can be effective on spring-powered blasters. You just need to work on silencing the main body of the blaster (e.g, stuffing it with FBR), since a lot of the noise comes from the plunger head hitting the front of the plunger tube. On a side note: PACs work very well with suppressors, since the strings stop the plunger head short of impacting the coupler.



I think you misunderstood why I asked that question. I asked because, as far as I've ever been able to tell, they heard you firing because your internals were loud, not the darts exiting the barrel. I just don't see how enough air will be leaving the barrel while pushing that dart to make a suppressor a necessity (or even effective) on a spring-operated blaster. I'll have to agree with Zorn, I would want to see the data for spring-powered blasters.

Edited by Z64052187, 06 February 2012 - 03:46 PM.

  • 0

#12 Daniel Beaver

Daniel Beaver

    HQRSE CQCK

  • Moderators
  • 2,066 posts
  • NerfHaven Subscription Supporter
  • Location:Minneapolis
  • State:Minnesota
  • Country:United States

Posted 06 February 2012 - 05:42 PM

On airguns, most of the sound you hear actually comes from the "pop" of the pressure wave that comes out of the barrel. With springers, it is a mix of the "pop" and the sound of the plunger head crashing into the back of the coupler. Your key doubt:

I just don't see how enough air will be leaving the barrel while pushing that dart to make a suppressor a necessity (or even effective) on a spring-operated blaster.

Springers and airguns are operating on the same mechanic: a pressure gradient pushing the dart out of the barrel. If a blaster with a tight 12" barrel shoots a dart 100ft, you can bet that the conditions at the tip of the barrel when the dart exits will be fairly similar across the board. We tend to associate airguns with the "pop", and not springers, because 1) Airguns are generally much more powerful than springers 2) Springers generate a bunch of extra noise besides the "pop". So while springers can be silenced, you would need to go beyond just slapping a suppressor on it.

In any case... I don't think there is a lot of reason to bring hard-core quantitative analysis into this. It's pretty easy to tell if your gun is quieter.

Edited by Daniel Beaver, 06 February 2012 - 05:43 PM.

  • 0

#13 iamthatcat

iamthatcat

    Member

  • Members
  • 77 posts
  • Location:South Philly
  • State:Pennsylvania
  • Country:United States

Posted 08 February 2012 - 12:04 AM

Hell, if we want to get all sciency I'll bring psychoacoustics into it, and back up Beavers statements as well. That's one of the main aims of a suppressor. Not just to make it hush-hush movie-style quiet. You want to change the profile of the sound as much as you want to dampen it. Folks can't tell quite where you are although they know you are close. They tend to back up. It's not for standing behind a tree or something like that. Along with silencing the internals (springers and air sometimes) your shots blend in with background noise better.

Beaver mentions string stops and I will bring up: carefully laid out draw extensions, self stick linoleum floor tiles as damping material, gel(silicone?) shoe insert material incorporated into the plunger padding, elastic sports wrap around the outside, neoprene and foam wraps, and quickcrete around the plunger tube (as bedding material, think tinfoil for method) as mechanical methods of dealing with sound.

One method I have tried for gel & or rubber plunger padding is to sew & glue a slice between 2 layers of craft foam and cut it down with a stanley knife to shape. It helps to thin down the craft foam & or the plunger itself (when possible) to keep the thickness down. Craft foam compresses too much anyway. I have tried using a smaller disc of rubber cell phone cover material in the center of many setups to create a more conical shape. I haven't been able to get rubber or silicone stuff to glue up well, hence the odd methods.

I realized that I do have a way to test for perceived sound reduction. I'll place my phone with a dbmeter out a distance, up off the ground and test, outdoors. I have dbmeter pro but if someone can suggest a better app I'll try to use that. I do have a janky video camera I could use. If you have some suggestions on blasters to try you can pm me. I don't have a metric ton of stuff though.

Edited by iamthatcat, 08 February 2012 - 12:15 AM.

  • 0

#14 Z64052187

Z64052187

    Member

  • Members
  • 22 posts
  • Location:Lafayette, IN
  • State:Indiana
  • Country:United States

Posted 08 February 2012 - 10:35 PM

Hell, if we want to get all sciency I'll bring psychoacoustics into it, and back up Beavers statements as well. That's one of the main aims of a suppressor. Not just to make it hush-hush movie-style quiet. You want to change the profile of the sound as much as you want to dampen it. Folks can't tell quite where you are although they know you are close. They tend to back up. It's not for standing behind a tree or something like that. Along with silencing the internals (springers and air sometimes) your shots blend in with background noise better.

Beaver mentions string stops and I will bring up: carefully laid out draw extensions, self stick linoleum floor tiles as damping material, gel(silicone?) shoe insert material incorporated into the plunger padding, elastic sports wrap around the outside, neoprene and foam wraps, and quickcrete around the plunger tube (as bedding material, think tinfoil for method) as mechanical methods of dealing with sound.

One method I have tried for gel & or rubber plunger padding is to sew & glue a slice between 2 layers of craft foam and cut it down with a stanley knife to shape. It helps to thin down the craft foam & or the plunger itself (when possible) to keep the thickness down. Craft foam compresses too much anyway. I have tried using a smaller disc of rubber cell phone cover material in the center of many setups to create a more conical shape. I haven't been able to get rubber or silicone stuff to glue up well, hence the odd methods.

I realized that I do have a way to test for perceived sound reduction. I'll place my phone with a dbmeter out a distance, up off the ground and test, outdoors. I have dbmeter pro but if someone can suggest a better app I'll try to use that. I do have a janky video camera I could use. If you have some suggestions on blasters to try you can pm me. I don't have a metric ton of stuff though.



I'm well aware of how suppressors work.

The misunderstanding was when I thought we were talking about stock springers, which doesn't make one goddamn lick of sense.
  • 0

#15 Langley

Langley

    LGLF - Since 2002

  • Administrators
  • 2,988 posts

Posted 08 February 2012 - 11:15 PM

Alright guys, calm down. We're talking about putting suppressors on nerf guns. Oh, wait....no we're not.
  • 0

You can poop in my toilet anytime champ.

2016 Nerf War Schedule
Bless you, my son. Now recite 3 New Members Guides and 5 Code of Conducts for your sins.



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users