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Homemade Ren Fair Firearms

A new and hopefully ambitious project

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#1 dgchessman2

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 08:17 PM

Alright... A few things before I begin:

Yes, I know that old muzzle-loaders don't exactly fit in well with the typical Nerf styles. And these are ~NOT~ meant for Nerf wars! The goal of this project is two-fold: To eventually build replica black-powder firearms with fully functioning mechanisms that shoot Nerf darts... and additionally, to build less-than-replica weapons using foam and latex/plastidip to build fantasy and melee-friendly weapons.

NOTE: A few restrictions on this project~!!
1) Cannot ignite anything
2) Cannot resemble a modern firearm, including mechanisms
3) Needs to muzzle-load! Yes kids, that means shoving something down the barrel to compress the spring inside before loading the ammo.
4) As a replacement for requirement 3, I'm open to creative firing/loading.... but it can't break 'The Mood'. Some of these will be made specifically for SCA fencing
5) The mandatory ROF is about 2 per minute, regardless of how fast you can ACTUALLY reload it. The more realistic the reload (I mean... you've got nothing but time, right? Why not make it look nice too?) the better. That is a participation-requirement. Each barrel can fire once in 30 seconds.

Best that I understand the project, it can be broken down into two parts:

Small arms, and Big Guns

All of the small arms would be based on the same springs, pipe sizes, diameters, etc. Be it a single-barrel derringer or a 30-barrel pepperbox, it would all use the same modular bit. The only difference would be the mechanisms, number of barrels, and of course the nice shiny exterior.

On the large guns, things would get more flexible. But most (if not all) of the general requirements would need to be followed.


This is the project! For those who have deep and applicable knowledge of how to make the basic firing mechanics happen, these will eventually be sold. And I make sure to tack on a small 'commission' for each weapon sold that goes directly to the individuals who made the gun happen (One for the designer, one for the project manager, one for the actual builder (on top of their wage)).

You can reach me here (though I don't log on nearly as often as I should), or send me a business email at forapricearms@gmail.com

Thanks ahead of time for your ideas and consideration. Hopefully by this time next year we can have a whole line of beautiful homemade guns.


~ Kaz the Mercenary


>_>.... Oh. Right. A few other things!

I'm not just expecting other people to do my work for me! *laughs* I have every intention of doing this project one way or another! However, I have a high respect for people who have far more knowledge about these sorts of hand-made systems than I do. I want to see a melding of technology, technique, and style.

Additionally, I have quite a few tools/people at my disposal. Including, but not limited to, mold-making and casting (for casting metal parts like triggers, hammers, trigger-guards, etc), woodworking, laser cutting and engraving, and potentially a home-made CnC machine (still being assembled and tested... please be patient!)

This is me reaching out as a business owner, inventor, and Project-oriented person to people who probably know a lot more about the spring/pipe proportions, general dimensions, and technical side of this sort of project.

I'm definitely prepared to pull my weight on my side of things as well.

Edited by dgchessman2, 20 September 2011 - 08:34 PM.

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"The great proof of madness is the disproportion of one's designs to one's means." ~ N.B.

#2 Zorns Lemma

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 08:58 PM

I may not speak for every single member here, but I can safely take from my interactions with the most contemporary relevant contributors, that you are in the wrong place.

We are a community of hobbyists who first and foremost, enjoy the sport of shooting foam in a fairly competitive manner, and secondly enjoy the creation and development of technologies which improve upon the sport.

For the most part, it appears you desire to over-spec a blaster that is vastly inferior to what is currently in homemade development for replica and reenactment purposes and then market it in a professional way. This is pretty much in direct contradiction with the sport and hobby respectively.

Kindly GTFO.

Edited by Zorn's Lemma, 20 September 2011 - 08:59 PM.

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"In short, the same knowledge that underlies the ability to produce correct judgement is also the knowledge that underlies the ability to recognize correct judgement. To lack the former is to be deficient in the latter."
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#3 Ice Nine

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 09:11 PM

At first, I was going to edit down your post into sentences that mock you using your own words, like

I


muzzle-load


black


wood


but I think it would be just quicker to laugh at you. Hahahahahaha!


Zorn got out all the serious stuff I wanted to say, so I won't repeat it. Instead. I'll laugh at you some more. Hahahahaha!

Edited by Ice Nine, 20 September 2011 - 09:13 PM.

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Unholy Three: DUPLUM SCRTA, DUPLUM PROBLEMA (2009)

But Zeke guns tend to be like proofs by contradiction

Theoretically solid but actually non-constructive

Rnbw Cln


#4 dgchessman2

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 09:14 PM

I think you are severely mistakening my purpose here, though it's very kind of you to assume that.

If you have questions, I'd be happy to answer them. THAT definitely wasn't a question, but instead a string of assumptions.

I've already seen scattered bits of technology on here that mirror what I've already done with this project thus far; multi-barrel weapons, experimental pocket one-shots, etc.

Literally the ONLY difference would be the method of reloading, and the outer shell that is snapped around the outside. The insides are, best I can tell, almost identical, if not identical.

I was simply attempting to seek out somebody who had a bit more experience with the workings on those inside bits, rather than having to piece all of it together myself. None of this is a money-making venture; my business is simply an organized commissions system. And it's entire purpose is to build more weapons... not make cash.

If this somehow flies in the face of what this forum is about... than I apologize. O_O I see people offering to sell/buy guns fairly often, as well as exchanges of ideas both familiar and radical.

At the end of the day, I leave it up to any individual to contribute ideas or not. If you aren't interested... I appreciate you at least taking the time to read and consider the project.
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"The great proof of madness is the disproportion of one's designs to one's means." ~ N.B.

#5 Nerfomania

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 09:19 PM

Weapons

You just lost all of your credibility here. Your planning seems sound. I would much rather see blaster parts REPLICATED rather than whole "new" designs made. If you don't get how most blasters work go read the + bow writeup...........Super easy I promise.
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#6 dgchessman2

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 09:24 PM

I definitely understand how most blasters work. I guess I avoided the word 'replication' because of the differences in the design. Sorry if that spread any confusion.

Firing mechanisms aren't complicated, and I'm definitely not suggesting to reinvent the wheel. I'm sure there are bits and pieces that can be cobbled together from various designs to fit the requirements of what the Fairs put on these sorts of items.... All I was hoping to find was somebody to help navigate that twisting maze.

I can't just take Nerf parts and throw them into a wooden handle and call it a 'flintlock'. Any more than you could walk out with a bare PVC homemade and call it an 'M-16'. I had assumed there would need to be at least slight adjustments in the design.

Maybe replicate would have been a better word. Though I wasn't trying to suggest direct replication.
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"The great proof of madness is the disproportion of one's designs to one's means." ~ N.B.

#7 Zorns Lemma

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 09:30 PM

If this somehow flies in the face of what this forum is about... than I apologize.


these are ~NOT~ meant for Nerf wars!


------

Because it was easy, and I was bored, here is a quick mock up of a method to achieve muzzle loading whereby you prime the blaster with some pushrod.

Posted Image

Everything behind this can be taken from a rainbow or snap. GLHF on your endeavors elsewhere.

Edited by Zorn's Lemma, 20 September 2011 - 09:41 PM.

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"In short, the same knowledge that underlies the ability to produce correct judgement is also the knowledge that underlies the ability to recognize correct judgement. To lack the former is to be deficient in the latter."
Kruger and Dunning (1999)

#8 dgchessman2

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 09:41 PM

I went out of my way to post in the section labeled "Homemades", and not the section labeled "Nerf Wars"... Even went out of my way to state right up at the top that it wasn't intended as a Nerf War accessory.

Was there a more appropriate place to discuss making a homemade Nerf gun?

I had heard good things about this site, and always been impressed with its how-to postings and descriptive specs.... but this seems a little hostile for something where the only major difference is a foam-molded outer covering, and a little paint. O_o

And again.... I can't stress this enough.... I UNDERSTAND THE BASIC MECHANICS OF BUILDING THESE. I've been building and selling them for about 3 years now. It is not, however, my primary focus. It's more of a part-time hobby. And I had hoped to find a bit more clarification from somebody who did this sort of building more often than I do.

I'll happily delete my post and go back to silently browsing if it's THAT big of a deal to even ask. O_o

Edited by dgchessman2, 20 September 2011 - 09:44 PM.

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"The great proof of madness is the disproportion of one's designs to one's means." ~ N.B.

#9 Ice Nine

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 09:52 PM

... but this seems a little hostile for something where the only major difference is a foam-molded outer covering, and a little paint. (There was an emoticon here, but I'm allergic to flaming weeaboism, so I removed it.)


It seems you have stumbled onto the heart of the issue. If, as your website shows, you already do the paint and foam-molded outer coverings, why don't you use the immense multitude of different writeups to make a gun yourself? A.) That's their (the writeups) purpose, and B.) if you claim you understand how it all works, but you need someone else to build it all for you, then every bad thing everyone has ever said about you is true.

However, I must applaud you on your willingness to put a picture of a dude on your website that has obvious problems with basic bodily functions, such as moving forward. That's something I can get behind (Get it? That's a gay joke, for everyone keeping score.).

Posted Image


As a final note, I respect anyone who has the sheer testicular immensity to post a picture like the picture you have as your profile picture on NH. So props.

(The edit was to change image host. I'm not so cruel as to run out your bandwidth.)

Edited by Ice Nine, 20 September 2011 - 10:05 PM.

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Unholy Three: DUPLUM SCRTA, DUPLUM PROBLEMA (2009)

But Zeke guns tend to be like proofs by contradiction

Theoretically solid but actually non-constructive

Rnbw Cln


#10 Zorns Lemma

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 09:55 PM

I went out of my way to post in the section labeled "Homemades", and not the section labeled "Nerf Wars"... Even went out of my way to state right up at the top that it wasn't intended as a Nerf War accessory.


I sometimes misread "Nerfhaven" as "LARPwithNerfblastersHaven" as well.

If you were able to develop a foam casting method to encase cheap PVC internals into an aesthetically pleasing form at a cheap price then there is something to contribute. But otherwise to this particular aspect of hobby as your original design is heavily flawed by the specifications of
1) intentionally slow to reload
2) realism to firearms


Your OP and subsequent post imply understanding of a pneumatic spring piston and sought for design inspiration in a loading and priming system. I have provided you with probably the simplest method of the latter. It is up to you to construct the former as well as synthesize the two and come back with an actual functional implementation.

Until then I see no reason why you should not be greeted with hostility. We don't like switching out our broadband for 56kbps modems either.

Edited by Zorn's Lemma, 20 September 2011 - 10:02 PM.

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"In short, the same knowledge that underlies the ability to produce correct judgement is also the knowledge that underlies the ability to recognize correct judgement. To lack the former is to be deficient in the latter."
Kruger and Dunning (1999)

#11 dgchessman2

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 10:07 PM

You know.... it DOES seem a bit backwards to have somebody offer to contribute, flame them without bothering to ask questions, then concede that 'Hey... MAYBE you contribute... if you ask really nicely, and I'm feeling magnanimous'.

As I would say to any Trolls, Elitists, Snobs, and other exclusive-wannabes.... please just move right along instead of throwing your two cents into a self-admitted Odd Project. If you have no interest, I completely understand and respect that; all I ask is for that same respect in return.


As the public forum section seems to be all discouragement and nay-saying.... I'm going to simply bow out of this part of the conversation.

For any additionally interested people, please feel free to contact me directly, either by the provided email, or as a message on here.


I don't wish to take up anyone's valuable internet time with my 'obviously useless' ideas.


And.... assuming I don't get this same sort of heavy-handed, nonsensical reception when the project is done, I'd be happy to post a how-to on the crossover. This project is really just about finding a way to crossover two already existing methods of building.

It's just details and proportions.


It saddens me to see it ever got made into anything more complicated than that.

Edited by dgchessman2, 20 September 2011 - 10:14 PM.

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"The great proof of madness is the disproportion of one's designs to one's means." ~ N.B.

#12 Y-Brik

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 10:14 PM

build replica black-powder firearms with fully functioning mechanisms that shoot Nerf darts...

This is where you lost us. It seems you are not another 12-year old who wants a 1337 snypor like he saw in COD, but combustion in a nerf gun...never happens. Look at the recent thread about propane power to understand how squeamish we are about these things.

tl;dr- You're wrong. But you don't seem to be a moron. Lurk and see who we are, try to contribute to that.
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As I said I have not not alot of testes yet but I will be once I finish the mod.

Why I am boycotting Hasbro

#13 evilbunnyo

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 10:16 PM

I'm still concerned on the fact that you want some amazing nerfer to build you a replica "weapon" and put time and labor in it and then give you the plans. You then are gonna go run off and sell them to people quite possibly as your "own" idea and maybe send the nerf some money just to laugh in their face.

Zorn pretty much stated everything else wrong with this post and idea.
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#14 Edible Autopsy

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 10:21 PM

This is where you lost us. It seems you are not another 12-year old who wants a 1337 snypor like he saw in COD, but combustion in a nerf gun...never happens. Look at the recent thread about propane power to understand how squeamish we are about these things.

tl;dr- You're wrong. But you don't seem to be a moron. Lurk and see who we are, try to contribute to that.


If you'd have read the requirements, it states that said homemade should NOT be combustion based, only resemble the aesthetics.
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#15 dgchessman2

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 10:21 PM

"I'm still concerned on the fact that you want some amazing nerfer to build you a replica "weapon" and put time and labor in it and then give you the plans. You then are gonna go run off and sell them to people quite possibly as your "own" idea and maybe send the nerf some money just to laugh in their face."

I'm not asking anyone to design anything for me. I was asking for assistance, and offering to work WITH somebody that had more knowledge than I do about the subject. I even went out of my way to point out that I would be doing the lion's share of the work. The offer of money was an added bonus, a sort of thank you. Like getting the percentage of every book that gets sold.

Most of what I'm struggling with is simply materials. Everything I've done up to this point was lathed, CnC'd, or otherwise custom-made. Not assembled from parts.... hand-crafted. I need to tone that sort of thinking down a bit and go instead with more proven methods that others have tested and tried.

Not reinventing the wheel, yes?

As for combustion..... Just no *laughs* Not safe, not a good idea.

The idea is for it to LOOK and MOVE like a real black-powder weapon.... not for it to wound people like a black-powder weapon *laughs*

Honestly... that would probably be easier AND cheaper... to just powder lead shot at people.

For example: My design from last year was a wooden derringer-handle that was routed to snap around the outside of the internal parts. Outside was lacquered.. and we have even talked about engraving designs into the wood itself.

I still love this idea, but I need to work out the internals better. The handle is dependent on the insides....

Gotta focus on the insides first. The shiny stuff is the easy/fun part.

Edited by dgchessman2, 20 September 2011 - 10:33 PM.

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"The great proof of madness is the disproportion of one's designs to one's means." ~ N.B.

#16 evilbunnyo

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 10:32 PM

You want to know why zorn and ice9 flamed you and why most people look down on nerfers? Because there's a select few that go around trying to make BLASTERS look and function like real "weapons" and some even just flat out call them "weapons".

Regardless of what you want to do your first post was so confusing and tiresome that your message didn't get across. You stated that you would "tack on" a commision for nerfers that helped you. That means you were gonna go off and sell them yourself which was my first point. If you wanted to help build more BLASTERS you would release plans to build them to everyone.
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#17 dgchessman2

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 10:50 PM

*laughs* I'm happy to release plans.... but the setup costs and equipment would but them far, far outside of most people's reach.

If you happen to have a machinist or machine shop at your disposal (plus a bit of free time!) it shouldn't cost much at all to replicate.


At the end of the day here's the sad, sad truth of it all: I'm sorry for whoever those people are that you are used to dealing with. I'm sure they're horrible people. I wish they were dead too. Maybe if they WERE, people would ask questions first instead of assuming that I'm a raging asshole. I didn't say anything in that first post that I didn't mean, though I'm additionally sorry that my choice of verbage seems to have triggered some sort of latent Nerf supremacist tendencies on here.

I have a project that will probably expand into a much larger project.

If I was an asshole.... I wouldn't MENTION that I was selling the product. I'd just take people's ideas and run.

However, I don't do small projects. I would need to work WITH somebody fairly closely for several weeks to get all the kinds worked out, and each additional design based on the same platform would need another bit of correspondence. I don't know about you, but MY time is valuable. If I'm going to take somebody ELSE'S time, I like to at least offer them a little SOMETHING for making my life a little easier.

I wish it worked in reverse, but sadly, it doesn't; offer something to those people out there who delight in making a simply project idea MORE difficult to complete. Hell, I even said "No Combustion!" in the very very first post. *sighs*

Next time I'll make sure to mention wanting to REPLICATE a BLASTER into a fancy BODY so that it looks like something DIFFERENT..... and avoid trigger-words like weapon, design, build, responsibility, pay, respect, kindness, etc.

Edited by dgchessman2, 20 September 2011 - 10:51 PM.

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"The great proof of madness is the disproportion of one's designs to one's means." ~ N.B.

#18 Gears

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 10:59 PM

Dude. What the fuck is wrong with you. You came to the wrong site. Deal with it and find something for tuned to your interests.

No one gives two fucks about dressing up in costumes and shooting each other here. Jesus. Fuck, just reading you delusions made /my/ asshole rage a little bit.
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#19 dgchessman2

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 11:05 PM

I think I came to exactly the right place! I've got plenty of nice, friendly, helpful people that I'm already talking with.

It just takes a special kind of somebody to not have an angry knee-jerk reaction to what I posted, and start cursing, flaming, and generally being an ass.


It was actually a pretty calm and reasonable offer for a collaboration. If that holds no interest for you, I completely understand.


But don't mistaken your anger or reactions with a lack of interest in the general forum. Your friends and fellow community board members may apologize for you being an ass....

...but you're still being an ass.
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"The great proof of madness is the disproportion of one's designs to one's means." ~ N.B.

#20 Gears

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 11:08 PM

I've got plenty of nice, friendly, helpful people that I'm already talking with.

Can I have their names so I can make fun of them too?!
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WoW is destroying my life.

-Groove out.
 

 
LAWN GNOME LIBERATION FRONT
 

#21 Ice Nine

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 11:35 PM

At the end of the day here's the sad, sad truth of it all: I'm sorry for whoever those people are that you are used to dealing with. I'm sure they're horrible people. I wish they were dead too. Maybe if they WERE, people would ask questions first instead of assuming that I'm a raging asshole. I didn't say anything in that first post that I didn't mean, though I'm additionally sorry that my choice of verbage seems to have triggered some sort of latent Nerf supremacist tendencies on here.


Awww! That's so cute, faggy Ren Faire builder. I love you too.

Do people really take anything I say seriously at this point? It seems like they do. It also seems like people think I care what they think of me. You're a dude, on the internet, who will probably never be in the same hundred mile radius of my person. I've peed on dudes that I care more about how they think of me than you, the general internet public.

The fact is that only three people in this thread are not taking things seriously, and everyone else is taking it too seriously.

Edited by Ice Nine, 21 September 2011 - 12:03 AM.

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Unholy Three: DUPLUM SCRTA, DUPLUM PROBLEMA (2009)

But Zeke guns tend to be like proofs by contradiction

Theoretically solid but actually non-constructive

Rnbw Cln


#22 Edible Autopsy

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 11:42 PM

Dude, I don't see how you guys are making fun of this guy. Every person on this forum plays with toy blasters for god sakes.
He's got a plan to create a foam flinging device, regardless of how it looks, it's still a foam flinging device, and that's the whole point of the Haven. Everyone comes at it with a different approach and just because yours is different than his doesn't give you the right to be a prick.

Gears and Ice Nine, you're both pretty damn good modders, and I respect you as modders, but as people, you're disrespectful douche bags. 'Nuff said.

Edited by Edible Autopsy, 20 September 2011 - 11:48 PM.

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#23 dgchessman2

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 12:07 AM

You guys have some awesome Moderation on these forums.

Edited by dgchessman2, 21 September 2011 - 12:07 AM.

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"The great proof of madness is the disproportion of one's designs to one's means." ~ N.B.

#24 Demon Lord

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 03:51 AM

This brings people of all sorts who enjoy the idea of nerfing. That being said, ignore the jerks above; they are just trolling.
If you're looking for an easy way to stimulate historical firearms, a rod-less design might be the best way to go as the lack of anything to physically grab would lend itself well to a ramrod priming style. Write-ups are all over the site and in the homemade directory. I'm willing to help, just shoot me a PM.
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QUOTE(VACC @ Mar 7 2011, 09:03 AM) View Post

Don't worry so much about what other people will allow. Throw your own wars and kick your friends' asses until they all want one.

#25 LT DAN ICE CREAM

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 08:02 AM

You guys have some awesome Moderation on these forums.


I'm actually surprised that the moderators haven't jumped in to tear you a new one or to shut down this thread and/or your account.
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