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#1 Ryan201821

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Posted 06 September 2011 - 04:13 PM

The goal of this project was to explore larger plunger tubes hoping to be able to use less draw, shortening up the total length, and getting more volume, while maintaining the current performance out of 1 1/4" PVC-sized springers. So, I built this.

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I used a Rainbow catch, up-sized to a 2" PVC OD.

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My plunger rod is 5/8" OD PVC rod, with a piece of 1 3/8" x 5/8" polyethylene tubing, to attach the U-cup. The tubing isn't actually the correct specifications, on average about +0.15" on the outside and -0.15" on the inside. I drilled out the inside diameter with a 5/8/" bit so it would fit over my plunger rod. Since no actual tubing fits over the polyethylene, I just had to tape out some spacers to keep the U-cup in. A flap valve was installed in the top to prevent jams and vacuum feeding. I had to drill a hole through the center of the plunger rod for the air to escape behind the plunger head.

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The pump action mechanism is closest to what SgNerf did with his blaster. There is a slot in the back half of the blaster, and another in the plunger rod. A bolt goes through both sides of the pump tube, which pushes back on the plunger rod. The slots allow you to return the pump grip to the front position after it's primed.

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The pump tube is constructed of 2.5" PVC. It fits very nicely over 2" and is the closest sliding fit of any two sizes of PVC there is. The thing in the front is a cut down reducing tee that reduces from 2.5" down to 1 1/4" on the bottom. I'd honestly like this a bit smaller, but that's the smallest reduced tee they had. One nice thing about making Sgnerf's sytle pump action, you don't need to keep the back of the pump tube closed, like you would in a normal RBP. This means construction order is a lot more lenient because you don't have to put the pump grip on before the handle is attached.

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All in all, I'm pretty pleased, although there are reason people don't use 2" as a PT. I ended up using 4" of draw, compared to 5.75" I'm using in the RBP Rev2s, so it's only about 5" shorter than a standard RBP. The thing also weighs a million pounds. You could seriously ruin someone with this. The priming action is pretty smooth, although there is some friction when the pump grip is all the way returned forward, most likely because my slots aren't perfectly straight. I'm going to have to experiment with barrels since the plunger rod is pretty heavy and moves much slower compared to a 1 1/4" PT springer. I will also most likely put a stronger spring in there to make up for the added plunger weight.

I know someone will ask, but ranges are bit hard to determine now. It's really windy outside and I know I don't have the proper barrel on this thing. Just from initial testing, ranges will most likely be similar to a 1 1/4" PT blaster with ~5.5" of draw.

Comments, questions? I'm sure I missed some stuff, but I wanted to get some discussion on this and larger PTs in general.

Edited by Ryan201821, 06 September 2011 - 04:16 PM.

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#2 RedShot

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Posted 06 September 2011 - 05:02 PM

Very nice looking! I might make one for a winter project!
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#3 Ozymandias

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Posted 06 September 2011 - 05:25 PM

Just to clarify, what is the item number of the U-Cup?

Also, where do you buy your PVC?
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#4 Edible Autopsy

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Posted 06 September 2011 - 06:34 PM

Also, where do you buy your PVC?

This. I've never even heard of 2.5" pvc
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#5 Curly

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Posted 06 September 2011 - 08:11 PM

Very nice. Moving to wider plunger tubes is long overdue as 1.25" PVC is quite scrawny. I prefer 1.5" PVC as 2" PVC makes a very good pump tube. 2" fittings also take a big jump in cost here, while 1.5" ones are about as cheap as 1.25".

I see you're still using slots on the plunger rod. I find them to be a pain to make. You can instead run a bolt through the plunger rod at the end and have it come out of the gun body. Rather than being connected to the bolt, the pump grip can simply push the bolt back and return to the rest position. It's hard to visualize, but once you understand then making it becomes easier than plunger rod slots in my opinion. A sheath on the plunger tube would be needed though, on account of facerape.

If you're having trouble understanding the above design I can make a 2D CAD sketch.
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#6 Ice Nine

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Posted 06 September 2011 - 08:56 PM

If you're having trouble understanding the above design I can make a 2D CAD sketch.


Could you please make a 2D CAD sketch of it? I am having trouble following the part where you said to just put a bolt in it and have the priming handle push that bolt back. It's an extremely confusing concept and we can't all be as smart as you, Curly, who suggested that a fat plunger tube is preferable to a thin one in cases of similar draw lengths.

Edited by Ice Nine, 06 September 2011 - 09:13 PM.

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#7 Ryan201821

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 01:37 AM

Just to clarify, what is the item number of the U-Cup?

Also, where do you buy your PVC?

9691K62

This stuff appears to be from Menard's. I acutally had to redo the plunger tube when I thought it was complete because the piece I used (presumably bought from HD) was super ruinous on the inside and not uniform at all. The Menard's stuff is really smooth as you can see in the picture. McMaster also has really smooth PVC but it's more expensive and in most cases you'll have to pay for it to be shipped.

This. I've never even heard of 2.5" pvc

48925K99

Very nice. Moving to wider plunger tubes is long overdue as 1.25" PVC is quite scrawny. I prefer 1.5" PVC as 2" PVC makes a very good pump tube. 2" fittings also take a big jump in cost here, while 1.5" ones are about as cheap as 1.25".

I see you're still using slots on the plunger rod. I find them to be a pain to make. You can instead run a bolt through the plunger rod at the end and have it come out of the gun body. Rather than being connected to the bolt, the pump grip can simply push the bolt back and return to the rest position. It's hard to visualize, but once you understand then making it becomes easier than plunger rod slots in my opinion. A sheath on the plunger tube would be needed though, on account of facerape.

If you're having trouble understanding the above design I can make a 2D CAD sketch.

I'm assuming you're talking about exactly how the Rainbowpump Rev1 functions?

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Yeah, I did that. It's okay. You still have to cut slots for the bolt (or rod) in the back of the blaster to align the catch notch and serve as a place to attach the sheath. Cutting slots are pretty easy to do on a scrollsaw, which is one tool I never build without. And if I were to build a bunch of these, I'd definitely mill the slots.

There's another problem with that which I apparently didn't emphasize this enough. The blaster is fucking ridiculously heavy, and the plunger rod is heavy as well. Adding more weight to the plunger rod is bad, and adding a sheath which would have to be 3" PVC, would make this thing bigger than it already is.
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#8 Ozymandias

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 01:48 AM

Excellent, thank you.
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#9 Ryan201821

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 02:59 AM

Excellent, thank you.

No problem.

Also to any interesting in playing around with 2" and Rainbow catch, here are the templates.

Edited by Ryan201821, 07 September 2011 - 02:59 AM.

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#10 Curly

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 06:40 AM

I didn't derp...I just...herped.

The weight problem is one I can solve without making a fool of myself. In the plumbing section look for black ABS pipes and fittings. They are incredibly light, while still being sturdy. They are the same sizes as PVC and it's fittings, though be weary as the ID may change. It also machines much nicer than any form of PVC. If you intend to use it as your plunger tube I would be very selective of which pipe you use, as their inner texture varies.

They are used for waste water, like under your sink. The price point is amazing too, they're much cheaper than PVC and sold in lengths of 3' at some stores. 3' is plenty for one blaster, and you don't need to cut it to take it home. You now are faced with the decision of weight or sexy clear, your choice. Polycarb on Mcmaster is always an option, but if you are somebody without it ABS is still great.
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#11 HasreadCoC

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 09:09 AM

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First off, I must say that I LOVE the foregrip style pump action, I think pretty much all pump action blasters should use something similar. The next thing is that the non-clear PVC makes my eyes cry.....I'm guessing this is just the test version, but would future versions be clear? Finally, the more and more I see people revising this stuff (and certainly making improvements) the more I think bull-pup designs like Kane's and taer's are the way to go, just because they relocate the entire position of the barrel, which effectively makes the blaster a full foot+ shorter, compared to trying to get it an extra 2" shorter. I'm certainly not some NH big-shot, so my opinion may not carry much weight, but I'd say you might want to put your awesome talent into revising, improving, and streamlining upon the various bull-pup designs.

Just my 2, anyway, still a very cool design with features I'd like to see carried over to other projects.
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#12 KatanasPWN

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 09:09 AM

Any worries about the plunger rod snapping with all those slots in it?
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#13 Curly

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 02:58 PM

First off, I must say that I LOVE the foregrip style pump action, I think pretty much all pump action blasters should use something similar. The next thing is that the non-clear PVC makes my eyes cry.....I'm guessing this is just the test version, but would future versions be clear? Finally, the more and more I see people revising this stuff (and certainly making improvements) the more I think bull-pup designs like Kane's and taer's are the way to go, just because they relocate the entire position of the barrel, which effectively makes the blaster a full foot+ shorter, compared to trying to get it an extra 2" shorter. I'm certainly not some NH big-shot, so my opinion may not carry much weight, but I'd say you might want to put your awesome talent into revising, improving, and streamlining upon the various bull-pup designs.

Just my 2¢, anyway, still a very cool design with features I'd like to see carried over to other projects.

He didn't just lose 2" of length. The 2" Variant has 50% more volume than the REV1, and the shortened draw increases ROF. The drawback is that 2" Variant costs more and is heavier. The reason that people aren't immediately jumping on bullpup designs is that they don't have direct airflow, and don't often allow for easy stock attachment. Most people want stocks and ergonomic priming motion, so they use traditional systems. If you don't need either of those, BullPump all the way.

Edited by Curly, 07 September 2011 - 03:46 PM.

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#14 taerKitty

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 03:22 PM

Bullpup? How is this a bullpup?
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#15 Curly

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 03:28 PM

Bullpup? How is this a bullpup?

I don't think anybody said that. COC was saying Ryan should look into Bullpups, and I was hatin' by mentioning Bullpups aren't without their flaws too.
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#16 Zorns Lemma

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 03:38 PM

He didn't just lose 2" of length. The REV2 has 50% more volume than the REV1, and the shortened draw increases ROF. The drawback is that REV2 costs more and is heavier. The reason that people aren't immediately jumping on bullpup designs is that they don't have direct airflow, and don't often allow for easy stock attachment. Most people want stocks and ergonomic priming motion, so they use traditional systems. If you don't need either of those, BullPump all the way.


Last time I read the OP this wasn't the rev2 rainbowpump.
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#17 Curly

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 03:45 PM

Last time I read the OP this wasn't the rev2 rainbowpump.

Thanks, noted.
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#18 Ryan201821

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 03:49 PM

I didn't derp...I just...herped.

The weight problem is one I can solve without making a fool of myself. In the plumbing section look for black ABS pipes and fittings. They are incredibly light, while still being sturdy. They are the same sizes as PVC and it's fittings, though be weary as the ID may change. It also machines much nicer than any form of PVC. If you intend to use it as your plunger tube I would be very selective of which pipe you use, as their inner texture varies.

They are used for waste water, like under your sink. The price point is amazing too, they're much cheaper than PVC and sold in lengths of 3' at some stores. 3' is plenty for one blaster, and you don't need to cut it to take it home. You now are faced with the decision of weight or sexy clear, your choice. Polycarb on Mcmaster is always an option, but if you are somebody without it ABS is still great.

There was a bit of discussion about ABS pipe about a year ago, before you joined the forums. ABS pipe has pretty thin walls, which have a layer of foam inside of layers of ABS. This is why it's so lightweight. As far as a building material, the verdict is still out. ABS is pretty flexible, something you don't really want your PT to be. PVC is also way easier to machine in my opinion, and less likely to fail in cold weather (something I deal with 4 months out of the year). The ID on those pipes don't look very smooth either. I probably won't try building any blasters out of this, but go ahead and prove me that it's something worth using.

Clear is not happening, as I'll explain below. Polycarbonate in those sizes is also likely extremely expensive, and would make the cost of these things stupid.

First off, I must say that I LOVE the foregrip style pump action, I think pretty much all pump action blasters should use something similar. The next thing is that the non-clear PVC makes my eyes cry.....I'm guessing this is just the test version, but would future versions be clear? Finally, the more and more I see people revising this stuff (and certainly making improvements) the more I think bull-pup designs like Kane's and taer's are the way to go, just because they relocate the entire position of the barrel, which effectively makes the blaster a full foot+ shorter, compared to trying to get it an extra 2" shorter. I'm certainly not some NH big-shot, so my opinion may not carry much weight, but I'd say you might want to put your awesome talent into revising, improving, and streamlining upon the various bull-pup designs.

Just my 2¢, anyway, still a very cool design with features I'd like to see carried over to other projects.

The vertical grip is really just a personal preference on what the user likes. The reason I did a vertical grip in this design was to shorten up the total length. I usually go with a generous 6" of pump tube for my foregrip, but with the vertical grip, I'm able to reduce that to only 4". I personally like using a full tube better. Another reason I had to use the foregrip is because 2.5" PVC is pretty hard to get your hands around.

I doubt I'll make anymore of these. The cons outweigh the benefits on this blaster. Making this is clear would also cost a fortune, and no one would be willing to buy these if I had to sell them for sustainability more than the standard RBPs.

I do definitely agree with you bullpup's are something people should be looking into. I don't know anything about taer's at all, but I know Kane had some issues with the design he was using. The string used for his "plunger rod" would stretch incredibly so you'd have to actually draw the blaster 7", just to get it to effectively have 5.5" of draw. Having the barrel inline with the blaster, and not sticking out a foot out the front is really nice though. I'm sure Kane and I will do more experimenting in this line of blasters.

This blaster is also probably 5-6" shorter than traditional pump action blasters, not 2". It may not seem like it but this is pretty big difference.

Any worries about the plunger rod snapping with all those slots in it?

Not at all. The plunger rod doesn't actually hit anything when firing. There is a string stop that prevents the slots from crashing into the bolt when at rest. This would probably be the most likely cause of a break. The plunger rod is 5/8" PVC which is pretty sturdy while still having a 3/16" slot cut out. It should hold.

He didn't just lose 2" of length. The REV2 SRBP has 50% more volume than the REV1, and the shortened draw increases ROF. The drawback is that REV2 SRBP costs more and is heavier. The reason that people aren't immediately jumping on bullpup designs is that they don't have direct airflow, and don't often allow for easy stock attachment. Most people want stocks and ergonomic priming motion, so they use traditional systems. If you don't need either of those, BullPump all the way.


No, no no. The Rev2 is something that is entirely different from this blaster. I'll just insert SuperRainbowpump in where it should be.

EDIT: Another thing about the ABS I completely forgot. It's black. I'm making nerf blaster, not mil-sim toys.

Edited by Ryan201821, 07 September 2011 - 04:00 PM.

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#19 Curly

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 04:13 PM

I agree on all counts, except the machinability. Since I only have a Dremel, Miter saw and a scrollsaw(which I am clueless on how to use) PVC is a bit more of a hassle to machine, though with your tool arsenal you can use any material. ABS is indeed black, but vinyl dye and normal plastic spray paints adhere to it well enough. For those not a fan of paint I can see why white is better. ABS's inner texture can actually be quite smooth, but you need to fish through the piles of pipe to find a good one. My 1.5" PVC is rough, but the 2" is smooth as anything. Too bad I'm using the former as a PT.

I am making a pump-action SNAP from ABS, but for the reason above I may need to switch to PVC. The body will still be ABS, and it will not use a pump slide so I can open it easier.
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#20 Edible Autopsy

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 05:26 PM

Where do you buy 2.5" pvc?
Online only type thing?
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#21 Ryan201821

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 05:31 PM

Where do your buy 2.5" pvc?
Online only type thing?

You missed the part where I already told you this.

This. I've never even heard of 2.5" pvc

48925K99

I haven't seen it anywhere else.
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#22 KaneTheMediocre

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 06:31 PM

As far as size goes, y'all should remember that this actually has an inch more draw than it needs to match the volume of a 6" draw in a 1 1/4" PVC blaster, so if shrinking pump-action blasters is your goal, there's definitely room for it with this design.

Personally, I think this blaster lacks the most important feature of the rainbowpump--contained priming linkage. The outer sheath that covers the back of the priming tube would, as Ryan noted, need to be made of 3" PVC which would add tremendously to the weight of the blaster.

Although the priming tube only moves with direct human influence, I still feel it's a significant safety hazard. I used to treat these sort of things as a user problem, because without any stored energy it seems more or less akin to hitting yourself. Early HAMPs were made with this attitude, and although I pinched myself once in a blue moon, I never had or witnessed a significant injury until Louic3 slammed his thumb in the cart-megaHAMP. Nothing was broken, but it looked pretty nasty, and since then I've been more critical of blasters with any exposed moving parts, regardless of whether they move with stored energy. This is nowhere near as hazardous to the user as the cart MegaHAMP was (It's less so now, since we added an early stop), but I still think it's a problem

I think that ABS pipe might be a good solution to the weight problem regarding the 3" sheath, but if we're lucky we might just find a cardboard tube that fits right--I haven't checked the classic mcmaster shipping tubes, but it seems close. In any case, Ryan's not building another one, so he's not going to order more material for it, which pretty much rules out the ABS pipe.

As for bullpups, they aren't as much an alternative to a larger PT as a good pairing. With a 1 1/4" PT, the barrel generally ends up being too long to fire at a consistent range, unless you do some wonky things with your design that create more labor or other problems. I set aside the bullpump project to work on darts, with the intent to use 2" PVC for the next version. Unfortunately string priming isn't really an option for 2" PVC, because McMaster doesn't make useable springs with an OD close to 2". Without the string, I have no idea how you'd reverse the direction of the priming motion, so you'd be stuck with push-action. And that's the other reason I haven't done anything else with the bullpump since then.
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#23 Bchamp22795

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 10:24 PM

I've been thinking about 2.5" PVC for awhile...my planned source was here
its great because its cheap, sunlight resistant, and gets free shipping to any "Do it Best" store or associate stores. I also get my 1.5" thinwall PVC and 1/2" sch80 PVC conduit from here too (the bell on the conduit makes making optimal barrels much easier too)

hope this helps some people
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#24 Daniel Beaver

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 05:30 PM

I think that ABS pipe might be a good solution to the weight problem regarding the 3" sheath


It could work there, but I wouldn't use ABS pipe for any structural components (like the plunger tube). A couple people in Minnesota used ABS in HAMPs and PumpSNAPs which shattered with normal usage.
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#25 koree

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 07:11 PM

don't often allow for easy stock attachment.



No.

Posted Image

Just plug up one side of the T and you have a very solid stock. And TaerKitty has mentioned that his snap-41a's plunger tube works like a stock.

Edited by koree, 08 September 2011 - 07:16 PM.

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