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WiP Thread: Homemade BPV Blaster

For the 2011 Homemades Contest

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#1 taerKitty

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 04:11 PM

Mod/Admin - please feel free to nuke if this is against the CoC. I'm hoping it'll be seen in the same light as the start of the dart head threads, where I'm tossing out ideas and we build on it as a group.

Now, having said this, this is probably going to end up in Ryan's contest, so feel free to hold off on contributing to this thread if you feel it's a potential conflict of interest.

And, having said -that-, I already have a pretty good idea of how things are going to be implemented, so it's not like I need help here. This is more to give us something to talk about.

Finally, if you like the idea, feel free to use it - I am not a big believer in 'intellectual property' in this hobby. What I'm doing is not a new valve, it's just possibly a new way to make it.

Assuming it works, that is. And with that...

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This isn't a formal build writeup; after all, this is still just a WiP. The general idea is to build a homemade backpressure valve, which has been done many times, including Buff's. This isn't new technology, just perhaps new materials and implementation.

The tl;dr form is simple: I'm going to use a rubber stopper as the piston head, loosely nested brass as the piston, and 1-1/4" PVC chunks for the tank.

Here's what it will look like (with a few hoses TBD):

Posted Image


Nothing special. I picked 1-1/4" because I had some from a failed SNAP build earlier. It could be 1" or 1-1/2".

Here's the face of it:

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It's a 1/2" to 1-1/4" bushing, but I can't find ones that nest inside the 1-1/4" pipe, so this will go in the coupler you see above. There's a steel fender washer epoxied to the back of the bushing for strength, a rubber fender washer for seal, and a ring of e-putty to (hopefully) keep the air from trying to leak through any gaps in the bushing-to-steel-washer bond.

You can see the steel washer and epoxy from the front:

Posted Image


===

The piston is where the 'magic' is. I'll be honest - until just a few days ago, I didn't bother to try to 'get' BPVs. They just felt like they were too complicated and prone to failed NerfSmithing rolls for me to try.

Of course, everyone knows someone who finally understands a technology and tries to implement it with their own technology w/o first understanding the existing body of knowledge.

Today, I shall be that idiot.

===

Posted Image


It's a 1/2" 000 rubber stopper crammed into a tube of 7/16" brass, with some epoxy to hopefully hold it in place. The way I see it, there won't be a lot of stress on this piece - on the intake, air will go up against it and around it, so it won't be under pressure. On the discharge, it will be pushed further back into the piston, so it won't be going anyplace.

There's a busted bicycle spoke screwed into a hole I made in the front of the stopper. The hole doesn't go all the way through - just deep enough for the threaded portion of the bike spoke. The smooth part is about 1" long. It will hopefully keep the piston face in alignment with the valve opening.

===

Here's the back of the piston.

Posted Image


The inner tube is 11/32" brass, force-fitted into a stub of 3/8" OD x 1/4" ID tubing. This will serve as an anchoring point for the rest of the pneumatics, but that's all TBD because I still need to drill out the PVC endcap.

Those are 2 AR springs from a Mav. One has been deliberately horked so they won't slide into the 7/16" tube.

===

That's it for now. The brass hasn't been cut yet because I don't have good measurements for inside of the tank. Again, need to hole out the endcap first.

I'll go into the pneumatics and frame as I build them - no point in saying what I'm going to do and then change my mind.
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#2 shmmee

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 08:31 PM

I've done a lot of experimentation with hornet tanks - (which are also back pressure style), and would donate knowledge gained from my failures for the benefit of the community. First off, here's some internal/ exploded pics.

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You have a piston, an input stem (that the piston slides back and forth on), and...

Posted Image

...another stem (of a smaller diameter (that's important) on the barrel side of the tank. These were taken as part of my:

easy hornet tank expansion post. I started by expanding the volume of the tank (which worked) and tried to expand the output of the tank - it didn't. I got it to seal, but when the blast button was pressed, and the system vented, everything vented back out through the input stem. I have two theories why. The barrel side stem was removed, expanded, and replaced with a flat rubber washer (epoxied into place)

1) The piston now sat flush against the sealing surface, instead of being raised above the surface of the stem, so pressures couldn't get under it, and push it out of the way.

2) Originally the output stem was a smaller diameter than the input stem. When pressure on both sides of the valve is equalized the piston is forced in which ever direction the potential for change is most radical - normally shifting away from the barrel side stem and venting pressure to the barrel. Because output potential was now greater than input potential, the piston remained locked forward, and vented out the back.

Again those are both theories.

The biggest lesson I learned it that it may be easier to buy a big salvo and have 4 large capacity tanks with half the effort and cost. Good luck on your homemade tank though.

Edited by shmmee, 03 June 2011 - 08:42 PM.

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#3 taerKitty

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 01:15 AM

Sounds like I'll be super-gluing a smaller washer atop my larger one. Oh, well, live and learn. Also, I guess I'll shove some hose in the intake pipe, too. Thanks!
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#4 Buffdaddy

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 08:07 AM

The piston is where the 'magic' is. I'll be honest - until just a few days ago, I didn't bother to try to 'get' BPVs. They just felt like they were too complicated and prone to failed NerfSmithing rolls for me to try.

Of course, everyone knows someone who finally understands a technology and tries to implement it with their own technology w/o first understanding the existing body of knowledge.

Today, I shall be that idiot.


EXACTLY HOW I FELT! My first one definitely completely sealed on the barrel side, so it didn't fire at all. You live, you learn.

I'm excited to see how the more nerfy designs for BPV turn out; I know of at least one in Canada, your work, and some others. Mine works, but given the fact that it's large, has to be a blaster of its own. You guys, meanwhile, have the potential for your own blaster, or if you make it small enough, use for integrations. I still have a couple ideas in this area, but have yet to make them work successfully.

I'm going to change the outlook of my thread to spud-oriented/inspired designs, out of respect to this one.
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#5 taerKitty

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 12:43 PM

Please don't - mine is no bikini model either - it's a 1-1/4" coupler in diameter, or appx the size of 1-1/2" PVC. And that's just the chamber. I still haven't worked out the pneumatics like you have. As for spudgunning it, a spudgun can also be used to launch ballz or Cerberus-like shotgun rounds.
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#6 TantumBull

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Posted 05 June 2011 - 11:18 PM

When I airflow modded my BS valve a long time ago, I originally thought the mod just didn't work. I was wrong, the hornet blast button just didn't provide enough flow anymore. After upgrading to a toggle valve with much better flow, it worked perfectly. Man, I should really update that thread/write-up so people know it is actually useful and works.
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#7 arfink

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 11:42 PM

Having done a number of experiments with building small nerf-sized BP tanks I'll give you a couple of tips:

Keep the output hole a good deal smaller than the piston head, it makes sealing it so much easier. Also keep in mind that the bigger your output hole the more quickly you need to vent the area behind the piston, AKA the pilot. Also make sure the volume of the pilot is smaller than the firing volume by a good margin. Otherwise you'll just make it harder to vent the pilot fast enough to make the valve "pop" correctly.

It recently occurred to me that a very good and easy to build pilot valve would be a 3DBBQ style valve: http://nerfhaven.com...showtopic=21240

So instead of using that valve as the primary firing valve it would instead vent the pilot. And since it makes a pretty killer regular firing valve I'd bet it'd make a good pilot valve too.
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#8 shardbearer

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 04:40 AM

It recently occurred to me that a very good and easy to build pilot valve would be a 3DBBQ style valve: http://nerfhaven.com...showtopic=21240

So instead of using that valve as the primary firing valve it would instead vent the pilot. And since it makes a pretty killer regular firing valve I'd bet it'd make a good pilot valve too.


This is an amazing idea, designing a blaster around this right now... And with that high flow of a pilot you could get away with non airtight pistons. This could even be used in spudguns!
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#9 arfink

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 06:31 PM

This is an amazing idea, designing a blaster around this right now... And with that high flow of a pilot you could get away with non airtight pistons. This could even be used in spudguns!


Can you say ball cannon? Can you say tri-barreled revolving ball cannon of doom? Cuz that's what I'm thinking of.
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