40 replies to this topic

[durka durka]

The new blasters are essentially shooting mini frizbees. Compared to the foam disks, darts are about as aerodynamic as cannonballs. It's obvious the improved ranges are a result of aerodynamics rather than anything going on inside the blaster itself.

If these blasters are going to be of any use, the disks will have to be modified, or a homemade solution will have to be discovered. Any modification to the disks will have to add weight which will cause them to fall somewhat faster, therefore losing their main benefit.

[Curly]

The new blasters are essentially shooting mini frizbees. Compared to the foam disks, darts are about as aerodynamic as cannonballs. It's obvious the improved ranges are a result of aerodynamics rather than anything going on inside the blaster itself.

If these blasters are going to be of any use, the disks will have to be modified, or a homemade solution will have to be discovered. Any modification to the disks will have to add weight which will cause them to fall somewhat faster, therefore losing their main benefit.

More or less, I can see homemade blasters firing these with relative ease however, as they only need a "flick" to launch.

[BOSS9]

I think there is potential for homemades with the discs. One type of launcher could just be a slingshot-powered sled (which a disc would fit into) sliding on rails, with a catch as simple as a clothespin trigger. The main difficulty I see is that this might be difficult to build out of nesting-pipe construction, which nearly all our homemades are currently built out of. Working with totally different materials (I was thinking various aluminum sheets/u-channels/strips etc.) would be a major turn-off to many potential builders. However, it could be built with similar construction techniques to +bows and other polycarb homemades, with some extra types of parts. When I happen to get my hands on the discs, I will definitely try to make a home-made launcher. I don't really buy guns from stores (too expensive).

[moosa]

The new blasters are essentially shooting mini frizbees. Compared to the foam disks, darts are about as aerodynamic as cannonballs. It's obvious the improved ranges are a result of aerodynamics rather than anything going on inside the blaster itself.

If these blasters are going to be of any use, the disks will have to be modified, or a homemade solution will have to be discovered. Any modification to the disks will have to add weight which will cause them to fall somewhat faster, therefore losing their main benefit.

They didn't just replace darts with discs. The internals are completely different. These blasters have exactly zero of the issues associated with air pressure blasters.

Adding weight to the discs should be very easy; first we'll have to get more power out of the blasters themselves. I look forward to people destroying their complex internals with super beefy torsion springs.

[shandsgator8]

The new blasters are essentially shooting mini frizbees. Compared to the foam disks, darts are about as aerodynamic as cannonballs. It's obvious the improved ranges are a result of aerodynamics rather than anything going on inside the blaster itself.

If these blasters are going to be of any use, the disks will have to be modified, or a homemade solution will have to be discovered. Any modification to the disks will have to add weight which will cause them to fall somewhat faster, therefore losing their main benefit.

Not necessarily, unless somehow the change in rotation of the disk creates aerodynamic forces which resulting in negative lift somehow. Just because something is heavier, that does not mean it will fall faster. A heavier disk might result in a slower moving disk, though.

Edited by shandsgator8, 31 August 2011 - 05:16 PM.

[Meaker VI]

They didn't just replace darts with discs. The internals are completely different. These blasters have exactly zero of the issues associated with air pressure blasters.

Adding weight to the discs should be very easy; first we'll have to get more power out of the blasters themselves. I look forward to people destroying their complex internals with super beefy torsion springs.

I think it should be easy to get more power out of the blaster - the throwing arm already looks pretty beefy with lots of room for gluing reinforcement to it/filling in the holes with epoxy, and there's always the option of making a replacement of that part (which looks like it'd be straight-forward enough). Adding compression/tension/torsion springs to the arm shouldn't be too difficult.

Loads of options for making home made systems here- a properly set Dado-blade in a table saw could make barrels like nobody's business and adjusting the barrel-dart fit would be a cinch. Anything with an angle would work, I imagine cardboard could even suffice - it's not like the barrel is holding air pressure or the impact of a plunger or anything.

[HasreadCoC]

Ok, time for me to predict the future, based on the past.

The past: Stock dart blasters firing semi expensive ammo - we mod the blasters - we begin making primitive homemade ammo - we build homemades - ammo goes far and hurts - new safe ammo is created.

The future: Stock Vortex blasters firing very expensive disks - we add new springs, without too much advancement - begin making primitive but working disks - build homemade disk launchers - finally say "screw it" and make homemades that shoot actual mini frisbees bought in bulk online - people complain and we make "slug disks"

Then Nerf releases vortex mini football launchers to troll us, and we all live happily ever after, the end.

[wardrive]

Ok, time for me to predict the future, based on the past.

The past: Stock dart blasters firing semi expensive ammo - we mod the blasters - we begin making primitive homemade ammo - we build homemades - ammo goes far and hurts - new safe ammo is created.

The future: Stock Vortex blasters firing very expensive disks - we add new springs, without too much advancement - begin making primitive but working disks - build homemade disk launchers - finally say "screw it" and make homemades that shoot actual mini frisbees bought in bulk online - people complain and we make "slug disks"

Then Nerf releases vortex mini football launchers to troll us, and we all live happily ever after, the end.

Mini Frisbees, particularly ones with names like wham-o wright look painful. I really don't see darts being pushed out by discs (I haven't seen too much of their performance though, except hasbro's propaganda). Example: The Nerf Recon, on NH a lot of people extrapolated that the Recon was a longshot in pistol form based on a photo of the Recon, by doing size comparisons of the CS-5 magazine to the rest of the blaster. As we all know now, the Longshot was the odd one out of the bunch in that in that it could hit 85-100 when given modest modifications.

Discs will have a place in wars, but I predict that they'll be relegated to a secondary/integrated blaster status- something a nerfer can use to shoot back discs that come their way. Most nerfers I've seen carry a spring blaster and an Air blaster, in spite of predictions that one system would eventually wipe out the other. We had N-Strike, a series that lasted a decade and brought us blasters that we incredibly advanced compared to so many blasters of the 90's. Discs will be more complex yet, in that a disc and be pushed and shoved around in ways that a dart cannot. N-Strike was also almost entire comprised of springers (Since both the Magstrike and the RF-20 were added to N-Strike as a marketing move) and yet, go to any war and air blasters are still here..

Edited by wardrive, 06 September 2011 - 08:12 AM.

[Meaker VI]

... I really don't see darts being pushed out by discs (I haven't seen too much of their performance though, except hasbro's propaganda). Example: The Nerf Recon, on NH a lot of people extrapolated that the Recon was a longshot in pistol form based on a photo of the Recon, by doing size comparisons of the CS-5 magazine to the rest of the blaster...

I have seen what appear to be the internals of these new vortex guns (it's always possible they are faked, but the source is reliable and easily found if you search), and I can tell you that they are 100% different from any current blaster, and dissimilar to most disk blasters from any age. Yet the system they use is dirt simple - it's just the disk itself that's special.

Discs will have a place in wars, but I predict that they'll be relegated to a secondary/integrated blaster status- something a nerfer can use to shoot back discs that come their way. Most nerfers I've seen carry a spring blaster and an Air blaster...

This is actually very possibly true despite all the good aspects of the disk blasters - the problem they face is availability of ammunition. While darts are very standard and can be fired by either air or spring/plunger blasters (they all use compressed air as propulsion currently - pre-compressed or spring-compressed. The new blasters use a spring arm to fling the disks, and I don't know if flinging darts rather than disks is worthwhile or not), and can be made in large quantities for low cost - disks are currently only available from Nerf (or will be soon), and likely will take more work to replicate. This will determine the success of the series in a war- whether we can replicate the disks for a low enough cost to make it worthwhile.

[PVC Arsenal 17]

So far I'm very disappointed in the performance of the Vortex blasters. I don't see a transition being made anytime soon.

[Meaker VI]

So far I'm very disappointed in the performance of the Vortex blasters. I don't see a transition being made anytime soon.

I think you got a bad batch- I had to return one of the vigilon's I picked up because the loading door wouldn't open. After that, both fired ~15 paces with another 2-4 paces, which adds up to something like 51-57'. I imagine the bouncing absorbed some of the range, and angling the shot would be feasible to still hit a target. One of them has some minor jamming issues, hopefully I'll open them up soonish and see if I can fix the issue, but it's not a big deal if I don't because I think it's partly operator error.

I'm mostly worried that suitable replacement ammunition will not be easily constructed, and that might put a damper on the line- though there really isn't as much room for improvement in these disks where there was in the darts so maybe it won't matter at all.

[moosa]

Well I have my Praxis here and I just did the spring reposition mod.


My brief experience shows that these discs are flying extremely inconsistently. They never just go straight, but some shots fly better than others. They basically all fly to the left to some degree, and often after banking left for a while they'll start to swerve to the right mid-flight... weird. I haven't been able to tell yet if the inconsistency is related to the construction of the discs themselves, but there's certainly no visible differences from one disc to the next.
They definitely do fly farther than stock darts though.

Please make it known how your experiences with these compare to mine.

Edit: forgot to mention that there was no noticeable wind, although it was a cold and foggy morning. Even the shots I took inside down the hallway, although it's only 20-25 feet you can clearly see most of the shots banking to the left as they fly out of the blaster. As you'd expect, the rare one that went straighter would also fly better.

Edited by moosa, 11 September 2011 - 05:32 PM.

[238232]

Concur with moosa. Ranges aren't bad, but they're flying weirder. Suspect it might be due to a lack of spin, I recall a video somewhere indicating that in windy conditions the torsion spring blasters (with less spin) had worse trajectories than the Nitron, which as a flywheel system gave the discs more spin.

[Meaker VI]

Concur with moosa. Ranges aren't bad, but they're flying weirder. Suspect it might be due to a lack of spin, I recall a video somewhere indicating that in windy conditions the torsion spring blasters (with less spin) had worse trajectories than the Nitron, which as a flywheel system gave the discs more spin.

I've been hearing the Nitron has worse accuraccy/range because of the flywheels... Haven't tested it myself though, and I doubt I will since it's so expensive.

My Vigilon doesn't seem to be too inaccurate - compared to a regular dart gun it's doing great. I'm also shooting it inside, so no wind. I did notice that if you have it tilted right or left at all, the disk will veer right or left - just like if you're throwing a Frisbee with bank on it (which does mean you can try to shoot around corners).

I haven't looked inside a Praxis personally, but the pictures make it look like similar internals to the Vigilon (it's got the extra holes for torsion spring adjustment); and that has a little wheel that induces spin on the discs on their way out of the launcher (Think an airsoft 'hopup' system).

[moosa]

So it could just be my blaster/discs that aren't shooting well. That's good to know. I hope most of them shoot better.

I made certain to hold the blaster level, and the discs would still come out leaning to the left.

[Egor]

So far I have only been able to try out the Vigilon and so far I am impressed. The disc blasters in my opinion are so far superior in terms of stock performance, ease of operation (especially when compared to those awkward reverse plunger clip loaders) and looks.

The ammo is enormously expensive though and as always nerf are stingy with it. My 'Viggy' came with five of the things and every time I shoot it I desperately try to retrieve them all and havent lost any so far. I wouldnt dare shoot these outside. On top of that replacement ammo is 10 discs for the same price the 36 dart packs are.

On top of that there is the question of whether nerfers need sixty feet range, I have only ever fought in a typical English two up two down house. Saying that my Lanard Speedloader, Nitefinder and my Maverick were the only ones capable of shooting anything more than two metres away without angling it.

I think these are a step forward, but my main weapon will remain either my modded maverick or my speedloader, I may keep 'Viggy' on my belt in place of my nitefinder.

Edited by Egor, 21 September 2011 - 03:33 PM.