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The Arscb/aic

Worlds simplest homemade automatic

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#1 Dyxlesic

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 07:35 PM

This writup uses simple english, and is extremely easy to build. I wrote it so that even the noobiest of noobs can understand and build this

Test videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4Sg5khc_Hc&feature=related


Introduction (how it came to life): So after i made my first RSCB clip, i wondered: How else could i use this concept?
I hooked up a pump directly into the back of it, and started pumping. Every pump or 2, a dart shot out. It fed and fired on its own, but the airflow was too slow. I hooked a titan up to the back, resulting in 3 darts launched, with a huge velocity drop after each dart (first dart went out really fast, second one kinda weak, third one just fell out and the fourth one didn't escape the barrel). I then hooked it up to a magstrike and the results just blew me away. They shot out one after another, at a ROF faster than a magstrike. The darts didn't spread out like a shotgun, and the range was good too. This is a guide how to make your RSCB work as both an RSCB and a SMG, and how to add a compact SMG onto any hi-volume airtank nerf gun, using its air tank and any magstrike/rf20 type valve.
ARSCB stands for Aden's RSCB (or automatic RSCB, if you don't think i'm that important :P)
AIC stands for Aden's inline clip (or automatic inline clip)

How it works:
a constant air stream is pushed from the back of the clip. all of the darts are pushed forward until the first one is lodged into the beveled cpvc, creating a seal. air pressure is built in the copper pipe, until the pressure overcomes the friction of the dart in the barrel, and the dart is launched. the seal is broken when the dart is fired, and the escaping air pressure from behind moving forward pushes the next dart into the barrel. This process repeats about 10 times per second, and it NEVER JAMS!


Instructions
First you need your supplies:
Posted Image
Materials:
-1/2" cpvc
-1/2" copper
-1/4" Irrigation tubing connector (you can get these at any hardware store in packs of 5 for less than $.50) or any other plastic tubing connector
-1/2" cpvc coupler (for an AIC) OR 1/2" cpvc T and 1/2" cpvc L (For an ARSCB)
-1/2" cpvc coupler (can also be replaced with a 1/2" cpvc L)
-air tank with slow release valve to connect it to

Tools:
hot glue gun
pipe cutters
dremel

Step 1: Cutting the pipe

Posted Image
The copper pipe will serve as your magazine. The longer the copper, the more darts you can hold. Increasing the size it will also increase dead space reducing efficiency, but not too much.


Posted Image
This will be your barrel. This is a little tricky. Make it too short, and the dart will not get much range. Make it too long, and the second dart will load and seal before the first one leaves the barrel. if this happens, then each dart will be pushed by the dart behind it, as opposed to the air pressure, which will lead to horrible ranges, and scattering darts.

Posted Image
cut this about 1/2 an inch long. this will be part of your back adapter

Step 2: Bevel your barrel

Take a dremel, and widen the inside diameter (ID) of the tip of your cpvc barrel. have it start about 1/2" in, and make the ID on the end as wide as you can. Make it smooth, so it will feed better and not tear up darts.

Posted Image
The before and after beveling. (the wider one is the beveled one)

Step 3: Make your pipe adapter

take whatever tubing connecter you chose, and hot glue it inside the 1/2" long piece of 1/2" cpvc you cut earlier. the tubing connector's holes should poke out on each end, so air can flow through it, but the rest should be sealed. here is a picture of what it should look like:

Posted Image

now take this cork and plug it into a 1/2" CPVC coupler or elbow
Posted Image

Step 4: Put it all together
Posted Image
before
Posted Image
after

make sure the beveled end of the barrel is put in the coupler. you can glue it all together if you want, but DO NOT GLUE THE BARREL INTO THE COUPLER, or else you can't reload it.

This also works as both an RSCB and an ARSCB, as shown here. This one works with my Longshot+titan
Posted Image

Step 5: Customize
put it on a gun, hook it up by itself, integrate into a current rscb-ed gun you have, or find some other way to use it.

Video links at the top
Tell me what you think or questions you have. Hope you guys like it
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#2 Brutal 770

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 07:45 PM

This is cool, and I am glad you were able to make your own take on the rscb clip, but how is this different from a inline clip besides the fact that you put a nipple in the back of it? But it is good to know that inline clip type things work well with pistons. (Inline clips are basically primitive rscbs that do not consist of a feeding from a downward motion, instead they feed by the air from the gun pushing the dart in the barrel.) Good job though.
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#3 NerfGeek416

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 07:46 PM

Is this a propulsion system or just a clip? If it is just a clip, the hopper works much better.
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#4 Brutal 770

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 07:49 PM

It is a clip, and from my experience things like this work really well for low powered guns like nightfinders while hoppers won't, unless you make a BritHop type thing.
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#5 Dyxlesic

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 07:58 PM

It is a clip, and from my experience things like this work really well for low powered guns like nightfinders while hoppers won't, unless you make a BritHop type thing.

No. you are completely wrong. When a constant stream of air (such as from a magstrike bladder from a magstrike trigger) sent down the hose into the niple, the darts are rechaimbered and fired in full auto at a rate of about 10 per second. it does not work with springers, it is designed to work with guns with large air tanks, such as the titan.


The way it works:
1: connect a hose from your air tank to a slow release valve like a MS or RF20
2: connect a hose from the that into the nipple on the back of the ARSCB
3: fill up the tank and load the ARSCB
4: pull the trigger on the valve, and watch as your darts are shot out in full auto

I left the air tank, pump, and button valve out because everybody knows how to do those, and it will work with almost any kind of them
This isnt ment to be a stand-alone gun. It is a compact sidearm to easily attach to any Hi-capacity air tank nerf gun, like a magstrike, a BBBB, or a titan

Edited by Dyxlesic, 02 February 2011 - 08:09 PM.

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#6 Brutal 770

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 08:08 PM

Dude I am not saying the application you made it for doesn't work for it, I used to use an inline clip on my nightfinder, it had a five inch cpvc barrel on it, it worked really well, and they way you said your reply you are stating that spring guns do not have enough air output to feed the dart into the barrel and out. If that were true then hopper clips would not work with guns, because part of why they work with high powered guns (something along the line of a plusbow) so well is because it has enough air output to force the dart in to the barrel. Your statement is false, live with the fact that what you just made has other applications than just pistons. Also magstrikes do not send out a constant air stream, it is a piston, basically you can think of it as an automatic springer that is actuated by air. That is why it has a bladder to give it the pressure for the piston to prime and then return by spring.

Edited by Brutal_770, 02 February 2011 - 08:12 PM.

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#7 the mod man

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 08:19 PM

Also magstrikes do not send out a constant air stream, it is a piston, basically you can think of it as an automatic springer that is actuated by air. That is why it has a bladder to give it the pressure for the piston to prime and then return by spring.


You may be right but I believe he is hooking it not to the piston, but to the trigger valve of the magstrike. But still, I'm not quite sure how this differentiates from an inline clip.
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#8 Dyxlesic

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 08:20 PM

Dude I am not saying the application you made it for doesn't work for it, I used to use an inline clip on my nightfinder, it had a five inch cpvc barrel on it, it worked really well, and they way you said your reply you are stating that spring guns do not have enough air output to feed the dart into the barrel and out. If that were true then hopper clips would not work with guns, because part of why they work with high powered guns (something along the line of a plusbow) so well is because it has enough air output to force the dart in to the barrel. Your statement is false, live with the fact that what you just made has other applications than just pistons.

The point of this is not to be another inline clip for pistols. The point is i found a way to make a compact fully automatic nerf gun that can eaisily be integrated on alot of nerf guns, and i wanted to share it with the community. If you want to use it on a pistol, be my guest. Glad i could help you. But this was not made for pistols, and will not fire full auto from a pistol. that is my point. It will not work to ITS INTENDED USE on a pistol, a springer, or any lo-air volume air gun like an at2k
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#9 Brutal 770

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 08:32 PM

For Christ's sake I am trying to compliment you on your discovery, do you realize that you disagreed with my claim that this would work on a springer, but now you change your opinion. I did not contradict you on anything except for you accusation that this is not capable for work on a springer, I am not saying that it's optimal use is not with pistons, I am just saying that it would work with springers, maybe not full auto, it doesn't take an omniscient king to figure that out, I am just trying to say that it will work on springers. Good job, and bite my ass.

Now may we end this internet fight and move on to actual discussion of the accomplishment you just made.

Edited by Brutal_770, 02 February 2011 - 08:34 PM.

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#10 cheerios

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 08:40 PM

Isn't this just an inline clip? :P
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#11 Daniel Beaver

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 08:41 PM

Neat. Probably works a bit better than the stock magstrike system. I wonder if there is a way to implement some sort of quick-change for the clip? In any case, seems like it would be a lot faster to load that a magstrike-style clip. Not to mention lighter, less bulky, etc.


Worlds simplest homemade automatic

Automatic blowguns are substantially less complex, and offers similar performance. They are, however, much bulkier than the Arscb/aic.



Isn't this just an inline clip?

Fundamentally, yes. But standard inline clips will just shotgun when you fire them, quite different from the behavior of this blaster.

Edited by Daniel Beaver, 02 February 2011 - 08:44 PM.

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#12 Dyxlesic

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 08:44 PM

Also magstrikes do not send out a constant air stream, it is a piston, basically you can think of it as an automatic springer that is actuated by air. That is why it has a bladder to give it the pressure for the piston to prime and then return by spring.


You may be right but I believe he is hooking it not to the piston, but to the trigger valve of the magstrike. But still, I'm not quite sure how this differentiates from an inline clip.

(sorry for the double post)
you are right on both times. The air comes from the button valve, not the piston. There isnt much difference between this and a normal inline clip/rscb. But the key difference is how its used. instead of using a cap, i made an adapter to attach to tubing. instead of beeing used on low-capacity guns to fire one at a time, im using it on high capacity guns to fire full auto. My first post had a gun with this integrated. almost all of my replies asked about how the ARSCB worked, and asked for a writeup. ive never seen anyone use a rscb/inline like this, so i thought i should share it.

Daniel:
Those are pretty cool. Making this one swappable is easy:
Glue the front coupler the the brass
put 2 dots of hot glue on the inside of the back of the brass, so the darts cant fall out
use 3/4"cpvc to make a guide/support tube for it to slide into.

Edited by Dyxlesic, 02 February 2011 - 09:15 PM.

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#13 Brutal 770

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 09:39 PM

You know you just gave me the solution to the spring rscb feeding problem I have been having with my magstrike, time to put in a shitload of integrations. :P
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#14 Dyxlesic

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 10:03 PM

there has been alot of confusion on how this can be used, what the difference is between mine and a normal one, and why anyone would want to use it, so here is an example:
Posted Image
(scheduled to be repainted blue, don't worry)
when i have a full titan tank, i can pull my keyring, and watch one dart fly out at speeds way faster than it should. Then i can pump it up, tilt it down, and shoot one dart again. But also, if i wanted to, i could pull the front trigger, and fire out 10 stefans in full auto. its nice to have the option to add a full auto close ranged secondary onto your primary, without doubling its size or making it really heavy.
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#15 Boot

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 11:10 PM

when i have a full titan tank, i can pull my keyring, and watch one dart fly out at speeds way faster than it should. Then i can pump it up, tilt it down, and shoot one dart again. But also, if i wanted to, i could pull the front trigger, and fire out 10 stefans in full auto. its nice to have the option to add a full auto close ranged secondary onto your primary, without doubling its size or making it really heavy.


I like the concept, it seems very functional, but I do not see how this is "automatic". From what I understand, the automatic aspect you are describing is that, after pulling the trigger, the titan tank empties, firing the darts in quick succession, but there is no way to stop this firing.

By that I mean if the tank will fire 10 darts upon release, there is no way to pull the trigger firing off 3 or 4 darts, and then stop it, allowing for another firing without pumping in a controlled for of automatic fire.

Although I may be wrong in my understanding of the system, this seems more like a better way to approach a scatter effect than a controlled fully automatic setup (unless the system vents very slowly, in which case I would guess that ranges would decrease).

Still, I really love the concept, it's like a continuation of the "barrel choosing" setup posted a while back, and the idea of providing two release valves for the same tank is a very interesting one.

I also think anyone who is talking about attaching this to a springer is not really understanding the concept behind this. Yes, springers work with RSCB's very well. No, they do not generally have enough volume to achieve the "automatic" burst effect described.

Also, @Brutal_770

I think your understanding of a magstrike valve is incorrect. It is in no way a springer powered by air pressure. The movement of the valve does not fire the dart, it just advances the clip. The piston works by filling with air from the bladder. This pressure expands the piston, and the pressure inside is regulated by a spring. Once expanded to its full length its continued expansion pulls a release valve dumping the built up air pressure in the piston out the front, firing the dart.
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If you try to shoot over 45 feet with a magstrike accurately you fail

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#16 Dyxlesic

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 11:44 PM

when i have a full titan tank, i can pull my keyring, and watch one dart fly out at speeds way faster than it should. Then i can pump it up, tilt it down, and shoot one dart again. But also, if i wanted to, i could pull the front trigger, and fire out 10 stefans in full auto. its nice to have the option to add a full auto close ranged secondary onto your primary, without doubling its size or making it really heavy.


I like the concept, it seems very functional, but I do not see how this is "automatic". From what I understand, the automatic aspect you are describing is that, after pulling the trigger, the titan tank empties, firing the darts in quick succession, but there is no way to stop this firing.

By that I mean if the tank will fire 10 darts upon release, there is no way to pull the trigger firing off 3 or 4 darts, and then stop it, allowing for another firing without pumping in a controlled for of automatic fire.

Although I may be wrong in my understanding of the system, this seems more like a better way to approach a scatter effect than a controlled fully automatic setup (unless the system vents very slowly, in which case I would guess that ranges would decrease).

Still, I really love the concept, it's like a continuation of the "barrel choosing" setup posted a while back, and the idea of providing two release valves for the same tank is a very interesting one.

I also think anyone who is talking about attaching this to a springer is not really understanding the concept behind this. Yes, springers work with RSCB's very well. No, they do not generally have enough volume to achieve the "automatic" burst effect described.

Also, @Brutal_770

I think your understanding of a magstrike valve is incorrect. It is in no way a springer powered by air pressure. The movement of the valve does not fire the dart, it just advances the clip. The piston works by filling with air from the bladder. This pressure expands the piston, and the pressure inside is regulated by a spring. Once expanded to its full length its continued expansion pulls a release valve dumping the built up air pressure in the piston out the front, firing the dart.

Ok, I need to put up some diagrahms. While it may use a titans airtank, it uses a rf20s trigger valve to trigger the automatic effect. (see the orange and white thing in the deformed foregrip?). It is dual purpose
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#17 Abyss Mods

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 11:51 PM

I like this a lot. What I don't understand is how the front trigger is set up on your titan. Could you maybe take an internal pic to shed some light on things?
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#18 Boot

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 12:28 AM

Ok, I need to put up some diagrahms. While it may use a titans airtank, it uses a rf20s trigger valve to trigger the automatic effect. (see the orange and white thing in the deformed foregrip?). It is dual purpose


I understand, I thought I was pretty clear about that in my post (I even complimented you on the dual purpose, dual valve setup, I don't see how that could been interpreted as a question or a misinterpretation...), but it seems to me that the release valve (the rf20 trigger) would be too slow to achieve substantial ranges unless the back of the barrel were very tight, in which case some pressure could build up first, like a static version of a MS or RF20 piston. Although I see that is what you are trying to achieve, I think the design could be optimized with something like tightening rings at the very back of the barrel, allowing more pressure to build up before firing.

I really like the concept of integrating what is more or less another blaster into the feeding system. Very clever!

It would be really nice to see a video of this thing in action, also, how did you find a good barrel length for this setup? Obviously the titan tank needs a ridiculous barrel for optimal performance, while the secondary firing method would need a significantly shorter barrel.

EDIT:

@Abyss Mods

I think the front trigger is simply a RF20 trigger attached (gooped?) to a drilled hole in the titan tank, with the outlet going to the back of the Arscb

Edited by Boot, 03 February 2011 - 12:30 AM.

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If you try to shoot over 45 feet with a magstrike accurately you fail

I beg to differ

#19 Dyxlesic

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 01:09 AM

Ok, I need to put up some diagrahms. While it may use a titans airtank, it uses a rf20s trigger valve to trigger the automatic effect. (see the orange and white thing in the deformed foregrip?). It is dual purpose


I understand, I thought I was pretty clear about that in my post (I even complimented you on the dual purpose, dual valve setup, I don't see how that could been interpreted as a question or a misinterpretation...), but it seems to me that the release valve (the rf20 trigger) would be too slow to achieve substantial ranges unless the back of the barrel were very tight, in which case some pressure could build up first, like a static version of a MS or RF20 piston. Although I see that is what you are trying to achieve, I think the design could be optimized with something like tightening rings at the very back of the barrel, allowing more pressure to build up before firing.

I really like the concept of integrating what is more or less another blaster into the feeding system. Very clever!

It would be really nice to see a video of this thing in action, also, how did you find a good barrel length for this setup? Obviously the titan tank needs a ridiculous barrel for optimal performance, while the secondary firing method would need a significantly shorter barrel.

EDIT:

@Abyss Mods

I think the front trigger is simply a RF20 trigger attached (gooped?) to a drilled hole in the titan tank, with the outlet going to the back of the Arscb


Oh, my bad. I haven't thought of tightening rings, good suggestion. You are right tho, the ranges aren't the best, about as strong as a magstrike. I don't know of any valves that would be better, so a link would be nice. The rf20 valve is connested to the port where the air gauge used to be, and there are links to the video at the top of the post. I will get pictures of the inside of my longshot tomorow if you still want them
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#20 knexpert66

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 07:48 AM

This is very nice. I'm going to have to try this on one of my guns.

Edited by knexpert66, 03 February 2011 - 07:52 AM.

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#21 CaptainSlug

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 09:10 AM

This is simple and clever, but it is by no means a homemade.
It's an RSCB hooked up to different blasters.

Moved to Modifications.
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#22 Brutal 770

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 11:08 AM

That is exactly what I meant in my post... I think we might have a misunderstanding.

Also, @Brutal_770

I think your understanding of a magstrike valve is incorrect. It is in no way a springer powered by air pressure. The movement of the valve does not fire the dart, it just advances the clip. The piston works by filling with air from the bladder. This pressure expands the piston, and the pressure inside is regulated by a spring. Once expanded to its full length its continued expansion pulls a release valve dumping the built up air pressure in the piston out the front, firing the dart.


Edited by Brutal_770, 03 February 2011 - 11:10 AM.

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#23 Boot

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 09:09 PM

basically you can think of it as an automatic springer that is actuated by air. That is why it has a bladder to give it the pressure for the piston to prime and then return by spring.


In that case I apologize, it was a bit misleading though.

Back to the original topic, I think there will be a trade off whatever valve you use. The slower the air release the more controllable the stream (as in you can pause multiple times), but ranges would suffer, while with a larger release valve you would get closer and closer to the original titan release, a single blast firing all the darts (at good range, but with no control). I would suggest using a fairly quick release valve, and then restricting the air after it leaves the valve (this is what the thin tubing does already). That way you could experiment to find the optimal setup for you, and strike a balance between control and power.

A possible valve would be something like this, although it may not be optimal (it is for liquids), it is just an example found through a quick search.

Good luck on the project, I am very interested in seeing where this goes.

Edited by Boot, 03 February 2011 - 09:10 PM.

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If you try to shoot over 45 feet with a magstrike accurately you fail

I beg to differ

#24 Dyxlesic

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 10:30 PM

basically you can think of it as an automatic springer that is actuated by air. That is why it has a bladder to give it the pressure for the piston to prime and then return by spring.


In that case I apologize, it was a bit misleading though.

Back to the original topic, I think there will be a trade off whatever valve you use. The slower the air release the more controllable the stream (as in you can pause multiple times), but ranges would suffer, while with a larger release valve you would get closer and closer to the original titan release, a single blast firing all the darts (at good range, but with no control). I would suggest using a fairly quick release valve, and then restricting the air after it leaves the valve (this is what the thin tubing does already). That way you could experiment to find the optimal setup for you, and strike a balance between control and power.

A possible valve would be something like this, although it may not be optimal (it is for liquids), it is just an example found through a quick search.

Good luck on the project, I am very interested in seeing where this goes.

Thanks. Im looking into 3 round burst fire by relocating the T piece, and making 3 and 4 barreled rscb's for shotgun style uses. An automatic nerf shotgun would be pretty fun wouldn't it? (although you would go through darts extremely fast)
My friend Sgt Mik from youtube is also working on a minigun/gatling gun using this system.
I hope to see other users come up with clevar ways to use this design or this concept.
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Anything you can do I can do backwards

#25 utahnerf

utahnerf

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 10:43 PM

I thought that Mik guy quit Nerf, is he back now?
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