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3 Sets Of Blastfire Tanks Not Working In Unison

Is this even feasible, what am I doing wrong?

15 replies to this topic

#1 Axelion burnout

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 06:20 PM

When I first tried hooking these up, I had all the tubes from one set of tank merge into one, so that each set of tanks had one connection. The plan was to hook it up to a Spiderman detonation thingy. That failed miserably. Only the top two or so tanks would fire (the ones with the most direct tube path) on each set.

I read somewhere on here that the tanks needed to each have their own path to the "trigger". So I went about doing that.

(Pics below)

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The "T-barbs" have one end plugged. They're cheaper than the "Straight Barbs".

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Needless to say, this also failed miserably.

All of the air pumped into the system gets whooshed out of the blast button, and once it is almost drained of all the pressure, the tanks let out a pathetic "plop".

Does anyone have any suggestions or ideas I should try to get these working?
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#2 nisaburo

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 06:47 PM

You misunderstood the trigger advice. Each individual tank needs its own back-pressure trigger to function at full effect. So 3 sets of 5 tanks would mean 15 separate back-pressure triggers. People have gotten sets of 2 to work, off of one trigger but not that well. I might suggest using 3 of the original blast fire trigger mechanism and just push them in really fast for a shotgun effect.

Edited by nisaburo, 31 August 2010 - 06:53 PM.

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#3 iknowmy3tables

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 06:54 PM

All of the air pumped into the system gets whooshed out of the blast button, and once it is almost drained of all the pressure, the tanks let out a pathetic "plop".

I believe that this is probably because of the large volume of air in the end cap and loose tubing and the huge whoosh of air is almost entirely from that area depressurizing, with the way this particular backpressure valves work the volume behind the pistons (in the spudgun world we call it the pilot volume) has to drop to pressure much lower then the pressure in the individual air tanks before the valve can fire, as for that weak plop that probably means the blast fire buuton big isn't enough

first you should try to fill the dead space in the end cap as well as you can with whatever you have, then try to figure out a stronger valve

Edited by iknowmy3tables, 31 August 2010 - 07:01 PM.

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#4 Axelion burnout

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 06:59 PM

You misunderstood the trigger advice. Each individual tank needs its own back-pressure trigger to function at full effect. So 3 sets of 5 tanks would mean 15 separate back-pressure triggers. People have gotten sets of 2 to work, off of one trigger but not that well. I might suggest using 3 of the original blast fire trigger mechanism and just push them in really fast for a shotgun effect.


That doesn't make too much sense though... I mean, the Blastfire and Hornet each have more than 2 tanks hooked up to a blast button, and those work fine.

As for your suggestion, thanks. Are you suggesting I hook up each set of tanks to it's own trigger (therefore having 3) and then just pushing them all at once? Also, I don't have any other parts to the Blastfires these tanks came from.
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#5 Blue

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 07:02 PM

You misunderstood the trigger advice. Each individual tank needs its own back-pressure trigger to function at full effect. So 3 sets of 5 tanks would mean 15 separate back-pressure triggers. People have gotten sets of 2 to work, off of one trigger but not that well. I might suggest using 3 of the original blast fire trigger mechanism and just push them in really fast for a shotgun effect.


That doesn't make too much sense though... I mean, the Blastfire and Hornet each have more than 2 tanks hooked up to a blast button, and those work fine.

As for your suggestion, thanks. Are you suggesting I hook up each set of tanks to it's own trigger (therefore having 3) and then just pushing them all at once? Also, I don't have any other parts to the Blastfires these tanks came from.


The blast button works with the trigger somehow, it's not the blast button by itself.
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#6 Axelion burnout

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 07:03 PM

I believe that this is probably because of the large volume of air in the end cap and loose tubing and the huge whoosh of air is almost entirely from that, as for the weak plop that probably means the blast fire buuton isn't enough

first you should try to fill the dead space in the end cap as well as you can with whatever you have, then try to figure out a stronger valve


I was thinking the same thing. The PVC end cap is acting as its own tank, basically. Ice Nine has a blast button design on here somewhere that I'll try out tomorrow. Thanks.

Blue: Good to know.

Edit:

I think I've got most of my questions answered. It looks like a have a few options.

1. Try to make a new "larger" release valve (probably won't work)

2. Get 2 more SMDTG triggers (3 total) so each release valve has 1 or 2 tanks hooked up to it.

3. Design my own 15 tank SMDGT-esque release valve. (I like this one the best)

Edited by Axelion_burnout, 31 August 2010 - 07:32 PM.

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#7 nerf mafia

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 08:47 PM

Ok your problem clearly is that the blast button does not release release enough air fast enough. I would suggest trying something like a barbed T going between the pump and makeshift fitting, and on the spare end putting something like a 3k, 2k, or even titan tank. Any of the listed tanks should release enough air fast enough that you will have good results. if not feed the tubing off the T into a 1/2 ball valve, sealed up, you would fire by opening the ball valve.
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#8 TantumBull

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 09:20 PM

Get a ball valve and use that to vent the pilot volume. Ball valves are great as pilot valves with their extremely high flow rates. When I airflow modded my BS valve, it wouldn't fire with a regular blast button. I originally deemed the mod a failure until I did some reading at Spudifles and upgraded to a ball valve for pilotting.

You should also consider using wye barbed fittings as they would (theoretically) make for less airflow disruptions between the separate pilot volumes of each tank than a tee would.

Also, you don't necessarily need a blast button for each valve as others have stated. Think about a stock hornet or blastfire and how they can fire off all the tanks with one blast button.

Edited by TantumBull, 31 August 2010 - 09:21 PM.

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#9 Zorns Lemma

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 09:24 PM

I believe that this is probably because of the large volume of air in the end cap and loose tubing and the huge whoosh of air is almost entirely from that, as for the weak plop that probably means the blast fire buuton isn't enough

first you should try to fill the dead space in the end cap as well as you can with whatever you have, then try to figure out a stronger valve


I was thinking the same thing. The PVC end cap is acting as its own tank, basically. Ice Nine has a blast button design on here somewhere that I'll try out tomorrow. Thanks.

Blue: Good to know.

Edit:

I think I've got most of my questions answered. It looks like a have a few options.

1. Try to make a new "larger" release valve (probably won't work)

2. Get 2 more SMDTG triggers (3 total) so each release valve has 1 or 2 tanks hooked up to it.

3. Design my own 15 tank SMDGT-esque release valve. (I like this one the best)


Something you could try is connecting the 3 SMDTG trigger ports to 3 hornet (or even harvest the bottom blastfire tank from each set) tanks, and then drilling holes in the side of each tank to route tubing to the rest of the tank array.

That way the pilot valve of the trigger opens up the qev in the first tank, which acts as a higher flow pilot valve for the rest of the tanks.

In essence, I believe that's what's happening with your current setup: the hornet blast button is only evacuating the air from the pvc extension, which then drops the pressure in the rest of the tanks to actuate their valves. In fact, youre current setup might very well be working correctly. If all the valves are going off, but are just making a small pop, it simply means the tanks aren't actually pressurized enough. 15 tanks plus your PVC joint is quite a lot of volume to fill, so getting that to decent pressures for a nice "pop" is going to take a while. Your ball pump, while giving high volume, is going to make any attempt to reach such high pressures quite difficult, as force from pressure is proportional to face area, and area of your pump face rises with the square of radius.
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#10 Axelion burnout

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 09:40 PM

nerf mafia: I'm trying that right now. It seems like a simple solution and I happen to have a few 2K tanks around. Let you guys know how that turns out.

TantumBull: Interesting concept. I don't fully understand what you are describing to me, but you gave me enough info to go look that up and try that out if these few ideas fail.

Zorn's Lemma: You're idea sound's interesting, but If that fails, I have holes in some of my tanks. Little too risky for my taste.

As for the pressure issue, I can put in 50ish with a 2K pump and about 8 or 9 with the 12 inch ball pump. They get HARD to pump too. The Blastfire normally takes like 10 -14 pumps to fill up with about the same size as a 2k pump. So, it seems to work out.

Edit: nerf mafia's idea failed. It did exactly the same thing as the blast button. I'm going to look into TantumBull's idea after dinner, but most likely I'll just scrounge up 2 more SMDTG detonators and go with that plan.

Edited by Axelion_burnout, 31 August 2010 - 09:49 PM.

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#11 nerf mafia

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 10:03 PM

I assume since it did not work you need to mount the ball valve more directly to homemade fitting so that the air is not trying to pass through the small tubing. You will need to move the tubing the goes into the fitting thing from the pump, so that it goes into the side, making room at the bottom for the ball vlave.
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#12 Axelion burnout

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 10:24 PM

I've managed to scrounge up 3 SMTDG detonators. It's just a matter of me picking one up from a friend tomorrow. Considering that he's giving it to me for free, I'm just gonna go with the cheaper solution here. Thanks for the help guys, I just happen to be in the mood for the easier and cheaper solution rather than the more experimental.

Edit: I found a 3/4 inch ball valve and tried doing what nerf mafia said. He elaborated on the the idea with some pictures he sent me. Worked out great. This ball valve kinda sticks and is only held on by hot glue right now, but this should do nicely.

Posted Image

Edited by Axelion_burnout, 31 August 2010 - 11:08 PM.

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#13 Draconis

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 07:06 PM

I would strongly suggest using pipe weld. Pressure + Hot glue = Pain. And leaks.
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[15:51] <+Rhadamanthys> titties
[15:51] <+jakejagan> titties
[15:51] <+Lucian> boobs
[15:51] <+Gears> titties
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[15:52] <+Noodle> why is this so hard?

#14 Axelion burnout

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 11:03 PM

I would strongly suggest using pipe weld. Pressure + Hot glue = Pain. And leaks.


I've got some Amazing Goop for that. The Hot Glue was just for testing purposes.
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#15 Draconis

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 10:53 AM

I would strongly suggest using pipe weld. Pressure + Hot glue = Pain. And leaks.


I've got some Amazing Goop for that. The Hot Glue was just for testing purposes.


Goop is adequate as a thread sealant, but is not the material to use for direct pressure containment. Why are we still having these discussions, people?
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#16 Axelion burnout

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 02:45 PM

I would strongly suggest using pipe weld. Pressure + Hot glue = Pain. And leaks.


I've got some Amazing Goop for that. The Hot Glue was just for testing purposes.


Goop is adequate as a thread sealant, but is not the material to use for direct pressure containment. Why are we still having these discussions, people?


Are you just talking about using PVC cement/solvent stuff, or is there some magical product by the name of "pipe weld"?
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