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Nerf Homemade Automatic

I would like your input

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#1 Vintage

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Posted 12 April 2004 - 04:12 PM

Hello, I am really excited that I found your site. Nerf is something I've always loved to do, and you guys just opened up an entire new world for me.

I have made Zero's simple pvc ball valve homemade and I decided this is a great way for me to use my spare time. I also made a variation of the cutlass hose handle gun in the shape of a P90.

Now, I am making plans to assemble a full auto, magazine loaded homemade and I would like you to check my design for any flaws you can think of. I took the blueprints of the Rapidfire 20 and used Paint to change the scale to allow a clip mechanism.

Here it is:
Posted Image

Each color represents one bonded section of multiple parts/layers. The blue section is the moving piece that pushes the Stefan into the chamber. Here's my best explanation as to how it works:

1. Air comes through the pink inner tube.

2. The red section is sealed against the blue section.

3. Air pressurizes the blue chamber through the holes in the red section.

4. The pressure builds up pushing the whole blue section forward (along with red), compressing both springs and pushing the dart into the barrel.

5. The small spring eventually releases the seal of the red chamber from the blue allowing the pressurized air into the barrel, launching the dart.

6. Air flow is stopped when the blue section springs back to original position and reseals the barrel.

7. Another dart is pressed up into the chambering section of the barrel.

8. Process repeats until pressure is depleated or the connecting valve (not shown) is closed.

This is the basic idea behind the Rapid Fire 20 only the back and forth motion of the piston rotates the barrel instead of chambering the dart. Tell me what you think about it.

I do have a couple of questions though. For one, since I am uneducated in the use of brass, do different sizes slide easily enough through each other for the moving parts?

And what method is best for bonding brass? I am thinking solder is probably best but clumsy.

~Vintage

Edited by Vintage, 12 May 2004 - 04:58 PM.

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#2 ompa

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Posted 12 April 2004 - 04:19 PM

^_^ :D Wow awesome! First off, I welcome you to Nerfhaven, and I hope your stay is quite enjoyable! That looks really good... Anyways, as for brass, for me it seems to slide quite well. 17/32 and the 9/16 I use slide alot... much to my annoyance, since I need to nest the two together, often times having to glue them together in the end... Anyways, if you use K&S like me, yes, brass should work great. Also for bonding brass... soldering may be the strongest, so it should work... but epoxy seems to work well for me, so you could use that or I've heard of people using plumber's goop as well. Good luck with that auto, post pics and ranges when you're done! I can't wait.

~ompa

Edited by ompa, 12 April 2004 - 04:20 PM.

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#3 Vintage

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Posted 12 April 2004 - 04:23 PM

Thanks OMPA. I just reallized I forgot to mention that the small dark blue dots are the rubber o-rings that do the sealing.

So you recommend glue to bond brass? What kind?
Nevermind, I just read your edit.

edit\ By the way, I don't think that this gun will be that much of a beauty. Just pipe encasing the complex internals. Not too revealing from the outside. If only the whole thing could be done in something transparent...

edit\ I just thought of something. If the thing works great and is fairly simple to construct, how can I place instructions under the "Homemades" section?

Edited by Vintage, 12 April 2004 - 05:23 PM.

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#4 THIRST

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Posted 12 April 2004 - 04:33 PM

Well, Vintage, your not the first to try and make an auto, and bot of you are making it at nearly the same time...But, why use the rf20 design? It wouldnt be as impressive if you just made a homemade rf20, than if you created your own design...But still, it would be great.

THIRST
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#5 ompa

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Posted 12 April 2004 - 04:35 PM

well if it works and all, just PM Cxwq about it, or if he reads this when it's all said and done, AND it works, he'll probably post it under there... Just make sure to take pictures of it while you're making it so people know what's going on ^_^ .

~ompa
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#6 Vintage

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Posted 12 April 2004 - 04:39 PM

Well, Thirst, I did think of my own design, but it would never work. I found a way to chamber the dart and release the air, but there was no way the piston would return to position to chamber another dart. The air would all be released at once.
Here's the picture:
Posted Image

I just figured since the RapidFire 20 does what I want it to, I should just build on the idea. I hope I just don't break any copy-write laws in the process.

Edited by Vintage, 12 May 2004 - 04:59 PM.

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#7 THIRST

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Posted 12 April 2004 - 04:42 PM

Yea, I figured. Im still wonderng how that other id is doing it...He said its almost done, so well have to wait and see.

Good luck Vintage.

THIRST
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#8 UpGraD3

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Posted 12 April 2004 - 06:27 PM

Great idea Vintage, its amazing how someone who is new has come up with many great ideas. Have you been into nerf for a while but just never registered, just browsed the forums?
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#9 Vintage

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Posted 12 April 2004 - 06:44 PM

Yes, I have been browsing the forums for over a month now. Just to make sure I was ready to join without worry of flaming.

I have nerfed since the old cyber nerf line first came out. My first "blasters" were the old "Strong Arm" and whatever that gun that hides under your wrist is called.

I don't have any modded guns yet, though. I am too afraid I will break my guns and not be able to find any replacement. I guess I will eventually overcome this fear, and mod some of my guns.

~Vintage
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#10 ompa

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Posted 12 April 2004 - 06:52 PM

You mean the autogrip. You browsed it for a month? Wow, I only browsed it for about 2 weeks before joining... But don't be scared to mod your guns. List some of the guns you have and I'm sure some of us could tell you which guns would be the easiest to modify, for a start, with the least risk of breaking. It's really not as hard as it seems to be.

~ompa
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#11 Vintage

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Posted 12 April 2004 - 07:03 PM

List of guns I have (I have since thrown out many of the old ones that broke)

Rapid Fire 20
Secret Shot
Secret Shot 2
Triple Torch
Airtech 1000
SharpShooter 2
Fast Blast
WildFire
Bow and Arrow
Motorized Ballzooka
SplitFire
A cobra pop-up gun (I can't remember the name)

~Vintage

Edited by Vintage, 12 April 2004 - 07:04 PM.

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#12 UpGraD3

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Posted 12 April 2004 - 07:08 PM

The bow n arrow is an easy one to mod, just cut off 1/2 half inch of the barrel and you can fire darts and arrows. (I'm pretty sure this works, don't have one though) Look and see if a dart could fit in there.
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#13 Vintage

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Posted 12 April 2004 - 07:14 PM

I did see that mod somewhere in the forum, I just never got around to trying it.
Thanks for the reminder.

Also, I heard that plugging up the hole in the plunger on pump guns usually gets more range.
How? By allowing you to pump it up more times and not leak the air back through the safety valve?
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#14 ompa

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Posted 12 April 2004 - 07:21 PM

Yes, in a sense... What it does is allow more pressure to be built up in the tank. However, if you choose to do that, you run the risk of overpumping and blowing the tank. Of course, if you're like me and have mediocre strength, you probably won't have to worry about that. Over-pressure release valves simply insure that pressure doesn't build up too high in the tank so it's 1)safe, and 2) won't blow someone's head clear off.

On a side note, I'd take apart the Sharpshooter II. Very simple internals and a sinch to mod. Out of the guns you have, I'd recommend to start with that one. There's a nice one-barreled mod by Cxwq here on Nerfhaven, but you could probably just not plug the hole and make two barrels.

~ompa

Edited by ompa, 12 April 2004 - 07:22 PM.

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#15 Vintage

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Posted 12 April 2004 - 08:14 PM

I just remembered three more guns I have:

Range Shot (terrible quality pistol)
Cyclotron (ball gun)
SuperMaxx 3000
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#16 Hunter

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Posted 12 April 2004 - 08:49 PM

I have nerfed since the old cyber nerf line first came out. My first "blasters" were the old "Strong Arm" and whatever that gun that hides under your wrist is called.

I've been nerfing even before that! I'm 15 now, and I have been nerfing since I was... I think by parents got me a 3rd party gun when I was 6... Ya, I got the Cyber Strike, the gun that hides under your wrist until you pull a pin and it pssings up. I still got it. Classic, man.
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#17 MysticFalcon182

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 12:54 AM

I'm kinda short on time, so I wasn't able to read through the other posts... But...

In my opinion, the biggest flaw with a completely homemade automatic Nerf gun is the parts. You need very precise parts and fittings in many cases, which we simply cannot make up for, like O-rings, bolts, moving pieces, and anything of the like.

Just sharing my difficulties in making homemades ^_^

~Mystic~
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#18 Vintage

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 08:05 AM

I know what you mean. Some of the parts in my diagram are so small that I will have a long trip in Home Depot finding things that suit my needs.

I don't mind the hardness factor. I am looking to major in engineering, and I really enjoy stuff like this. Finding kinks in my desings only shows how infallible I really am. Fixing those kinks is what makes it all worthwhile.

So thanks for the input and continue to give me ideas.

~Vintage
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#19 BoltMasterZero

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 08:38 AM

After looking over this thread I realized I came up with an idea similar to this one.
Its more of a semi-auto concept but I would expect it wouldn't be that difficult to adapt it to full-auto.

Posted Image

Heres how it works.
1. Air/CO2 comes out of the valve and pushes plunger foward.
2. Plunger pushes dart into barell when air/CO2 hits it.
3. Air/CO2 escapes through the hole throught a tube and into the plunger.
4. Dart flies out barrel.
5. Air/CO2 supply is cut off when trigger is released.
6. Spring pulls plunger back reloading gun.
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#20 Vintage

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 09:22 AM

Your plan looks great, but you said that the CO2 is cut off when you release the trigger. That means you will need a very quick trigger finger to make sure you dont release all the CO2 in one shot.

Also, I dont quite understand your plunger. The section that pushes the dart into the barrel seems to be oddly shaped. Why not do it the way I have it posted in my second drawing/diagram. That method is almost identical to your method, only it uses pressurized air not CO2.

You would still have to find a way to only release a desired amount of CO2 into the firing chamber though. Otherwise my second design, like yours, will release all its pressure in one trigger pull.

~Vintage


Edit:

I just got a major set-back on my plans for the week. I just ran out to Home Depot and, lo-and-behold, they carry no brass piping. ^_^

Where do those who have it, get their's? It would be nice if it was a physical store. I might order online if hardware stores don't carry it.

Edited by Vintage, 13 April 2004 - 08:03 PM.

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#21 blink 182

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 07:02 PM

In regards to the second diagram, when the cutlass hose handle is shown. Why not put a spring onto the internal pink piece. (Props to “Bolt master zero” on this one) When the air is depleted the spring will pull back on the pink piece causing another shell into the magazine. It is kind of a mix of both your ideas. This could also work?


(edit)
I was looking at boltmasterzero's diagram. You could also add a co2 air regulator? (I think that is what it is called) You could release a desired amount of air in any given time.

Also to vintage, check your local hobby shop! They will most likely carry brass tubing there.

Edited by blink_182, 14 April 2004 - 07:08 PM.

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#22 Crankymonky

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 07:40 PM

Brass is usually gotten at hobby shops. Also Ace hardware carries brace i do believe. I get mine at a small harware store called Stosniders. Call around a bit. Also I recomend getting a NF to mod as a first gun. I haven't modded one, yet they are inexpensive, available, and appear pretty simple to mod.

Crankymonky

Edited by crankymonky, 14 April 2004 - 07:51 PM.

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#23 Vintage

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 08:48 PM

In regards to the second diagram, when the cutlass hose handle is shown. Why not put a spring onto the internal pink piece. (Props to “Bolt master zero” on this one) When the air is depleted the spring will pull back on the pink piece causing another shell into the magazine. It is kind of a mix of both your ideas. This could also work?


Actually, in my second diagram, the spring would at first glance appear to be able to reset the chamber at each shot, but in all honestly only ever fire one dart.
I am not going to get technical, but the two things I want the gun to do are:
1. Change constant air pressure into regulated short bursts.
2. Cycle the piston back and forth to chamber darts for each burst of air.

Using my second diagram, the piston will cycle forward, shoot the first dart, and then not make it all the way back before pressure sends it forward again. It will never chamber another dart.
I believe, unless some new design pops into my head, that my first diagram is the only way an automatic will work.

I was looking at boltmasterzero's diagram. You could also add a co2 air regulator? (I think that is what it is called) You could release a desired amount of air in any given time.


I don't want to make a CO2 gun, I was just helping boltmasterzero with his design. So that comment is for him.

Brass is usually gotten at hobby shops. Also Ace hardware carries brace i do believe. I get mine at a small harware store called Stosniders. Call around a bit. Also I recomend getting a NF to mod as a first gun. I haven't modded one, yet they are inexpensive, available, and appear pretty simple to mod.

Crankymonky


Thanks for the brass info, but what is a "hobby store"? What do they sell besides (hopefully) brass?

Also, I can't find a nitefinder anywhere. They must have just stopped selling them recently.
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#24 xedice

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 09:15 PM

NF's are sold in mass here on the east coast at Target. Still a lot on shelves, just check around.

Hobby shops carry like RC cars/planes, model railroads, model planes, ect. Brass is mainly used for model railroading, so check at model railroading shops if you can't find any general hobby shops in your phone book.
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#25 Vintage

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 09:25 PM

NF's are sold in mass here on the east coast at Target. Still a lot on shelves, just check around.


Thanks, I guess I'll just have to look around then. By the way, how many telescoping sizes of brass are there? By my diagram, it looks like I may need 7.

Edit:
Nevermind. I just did some online research (the beauty of the World Wide Web!), and found that brass "tubing" comes in dozens of sizes. Now I just have to call around to find a low-cost supply of it...

Edited by Vintage, 15 April 2004 - 09:57 AM.

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