19 replies to this topic

[rawray7]

So, i'm not really a big comics buff. I've read very few different titles, but the ones i read i get really into. Now, up until last week i was rejecting to read the hellboy comics my friend asked me to read because of the name: Hellboy. just sounds lame. but i've never learned better not to judge a book by its cover. Hellboy is the best comic i have ever read in my life, Mike Mignola is a genious, his story line is awesome, his art definately above par. I'd really reccomend reading the comics, the first graphic novel is called "seed of destruction", that's a great place to start. Hellboy really stands out from other comics on a literary and graphic level, his art isn't lame standard kerpows, or overly simplistic, or overly animated (i.e. steriotypical anime, manga etc.); his stories are often based on folk lore from all over central europe, scandinavia, russia, even africa in the last miniseries. Two of his graphic novels are entirely composed of short stories. If you like killing nazis, zombies, homunculi, napoleonic soldiers, the baba yaga, demons, or hecate, you'll definately get a kick out of hellboy.

Anyway, i don't know too much about the upcoming movie, i'm hoping it will be good and i heard they worked closely with mignola, and ron pearlman is the only person who could pull off the character, but who knows, it might suck. regardless of the movie, i definately encourage all of you, comic buffs or not, to check out hellboy, it's fucking amazing.

i'm definately up for a big hellboy discussion if anyone's already read 'em.

edit:if you're going to go out and by hellboy stuff, get the graphic novels, start with seed of destruction. don't get the regular novels or anything that says "weird tales" on it, that stuff isn't all Mignola and a lot of it sucks. also, if anyone wants to chit-chat about Scud: The Disposable Assassin, i absolutely love that comic too.

Edited by rawray7, 29 March 2004 - 01:24 AM.

[Ice Nine]

I haven't been able to find any yet, although they do look promising. I'm also looking forward to the movie. If it follows the recent good comic movie to bad comic movie ratio, then there's a 2:1 chance it'll be good! The Hulk sucked.

Nothing is as good as X-Men and Spiderman. They rock my proverbil socks.

[Talio]

Yeah I understand that you like Hellboy and more power too you, but nothing is going to be better then X men during Dark Pheonix or the Reserection of Wolvy. Now as for Hellboy, well I always avoided it, because if I'm not mistaken Hellboy was created by a Nazi genetisis and was stolen by the allies and is now a CIA agent. If I'm not mistaken, he as has a hand made of rock. Well all in all, that sounds pretty lame to me. Hellboy will be one of the movies that I'll wait for the DVD because I don't get a boner by watching the trailor. But hell who am I to talk, I liked Underworld.

Talio.

[moosenukem]

What do you guys think of The Punisher coming out?



Talio---- Underworld was an awsome movie, it was wierd though, everyone seemed something that they were not, like Vic was a the bad guy from the start.
Very strange.

Moose

[rawray7]

Now as for Hellboy, well I always avoided it, because if I'm not mistaken Hellboy was created by a Nazi genetisis and was stolen by the allies and is now a CIA agent. If I'm not mistaken, he as has a hand made of rock. Well all in all, that sounds pretty lame to me.

well, he was "created" by a nazi-hired sorcerer-type. basically, the nazi's hire this dude to call forth the bringer of apocalypse: hellboy. but despite his pre-ordaned purpose to bring the end of the world, hellboy chooses to fight the people who are most like him, who created him, who want to use his "power". he's not a CIA agent, he's a member of the Bureau of Paranormal Research and Defense (the BPRD). i guess you could call his hand "stone" but it's sort of an unexplainable mystery as to what exactly its made of, and it's purpose you can find out by reading the graphic novel "The Right Hand of Doom". I totally agree with you Talio, it sounds really lame, that's exactly why i shyed away from it in the begginning myself. My friend was showing me some of the stuff and i thought it was just the lamest thing ever. it was only until last week when i was sick that i decided to give it a shot, and believe me it's worth it. I had done a complete 180 by the end of Seed of Destruction, and got really into it. i'd give it a try, especially if you can borrow them from a friend and save yourself an "experimental" $20 to see if you like it or not.

[Talio]

Paranormal Research. Shit that sounds like it has possiblities. I guess I've just been so jadded by badass super hero's that I see a guy with what looks to be like two salami's on his head wearing a trenchcoat to be kinda lame. It's cool though, perhaps I'll see the movie.

All in all, I remember the days when the realm of Scifi Fantasy was an underground taboo. I miss the days when Batman was as hardcore as the comic book movies got. Don't get me wrong, X men was killer. I hope they continue the series, I'd love to see them tackle Dark Pheonix. I'd also like to see some weapon X shit get slipped in there.

But being an obvious Jay and Silent bob fan, I have to snicker when I see ultra underground shit like The league and Hellboy getting picked up. We all have to realize that at this point, the fans are just being dumped on. It's become nothing but a cash cow, which is ok, and may serve a few benefactors like Daredevil was, but damn, I mean, when is this shit going to end. Eventually they are going to fuck up something worse then the Hulk. Seems like they just can't get that book right. The TV show was joke, the movie was a joke. That would have made a half decent cartoon, wonder why they never did that. Oh well, I'll probably read the spoilers on Hellboy or see if some of my buddies have any of the issues I can take a look at. Thanks for the recommendation Ray.

Talio.

[Famine]

I dunno, I happen to think that The Hulk was a pretty damn good movie. While it could be said that it didn't follow the source material as closely as some of the other Comic movies, you have to take into account that there have never been any stories written that realistically explore the character development of Bruce during his first days as the Hulk. Sure, Stan wrote him a shitty back story in the 60's but it's never really been revisited (to my knowledge). The characters were all well written and multi-dimensional and I really became interested in seeing how the increasingly complex relationships between Bruce, Betty, her father, and the Hulk would play out in the end. Granted, the movie was light on the action but I kind of appreciated that. The build up made the eventual transformation all that more gratifying.

At any rate, I'm approaching each of these Comic Book adaptions on and individual basis. You have your Blade Trilogy, X-Men, Spider-Man, and Hulk (IMO) which have all done excellent jobs of bringing comic books to the big screen. Then you have Daredevil and League of Extraordinary Gentlemen which are 2-Hour guides on "How to Fuck Up a Comic Book Adaptation". Personally, I have high hopes for Hellboy since del Torro tends to respect the fans. Punisher on the other hand could easily go either way.

Now for two examples of upcoming comic projects. One good, one bad:

Batman, directed by Chris Nolan, starring Christian Bale, Ken Watanabe, Michael Caine, Cillian Murphy, Morgan Freeman, Liam Neeson, Gary Oldman. This will be a fanboy spoogefest. Trust me. It's written by David Goyer.

Hellblazer, directed by some no-name. Starring Keanu Reeves. FYI, John Constantine (main character) is supposed to be ENGLISH. Keanu, doing an English accent. You do the math.

[Death]

Hehehehe, I'm gonna have to concur with Famine on this one. As one of the (few?) other people who really enjoyed the Hulk movie, and as a tremendous fan of comic books, I am ecstatic with the direction Hollywood has been taking in making serious adaptations.

Famine already mentioned the new Batman flick which will start filming soon. He named off the cast, but since I know half of us are too lazy to go to IMDB to check on it, I'm gonna do the cross-reference right here:

Christian Bale as Bruce Wayne/Batman; accomplished actor of high caliber-- especially note his work in American Psycho and Equilibrium if you've any doubts to his playin' Bats.

Ken Watanabe as Ra's Al Ghul; most recently from The Last Samurai, Watanabe will be excellent in the role of the villain who might easily be considered Batman's evil twin in terms of mental acuity and physical skill.

Sir Michael Caine as Alfred Pennyworth; this Knight of Her Majesty's Court needs no further explanation.

Cillian Murphy as Dr. Steven Crane (aka Scarecrow); if you haven't seen 28 Days Later yet, see it now-- this fucker can act.

Morgan Freeman as Lucius Fox; Bruce Wayne's most trusted business partner and loyal friend will be played by this tremendous thespian.

Liam Neeson as Henri Ducard; yeah. That's right. Liam Fucking Neeson.

Gary Oldman as James Gordon; as Vacc will testify (rather loudly) Gary Oldman is one of the most versatile actors out there today.

If this is the future of comic book movies, then we've much to look forward to.

[Oroku Saki]

Eventually they are going to fuck up something worse then the Hulk. Seems like they just can't get that book right. The TV show was joke, the movie was a joke. That would have made a half decent cartoon, wonder why they never did that.

Actually, about a year ago, I remember watching some Hulk cartoon on CBS or something on a Saturday morning, shortly after the release of the movie. I think that it only lasted maybe 2 or 3 episodes though.

Getting back to comic/movies, I did hear about them making an Iron Man movie, which is scheduled to come out in 2005, but I also heard that they were planning on getting Leonardo DiCraprio to play Tony Stark , which in my opinion would suck. Iron Man is one of my favorite comic characters, and the last thing I want is a shitty actor fucking it all up.

When I get around to it, I might go see Hellboy, but I am more excited about the 3rd X-Men movie, the new Spider-Man, and the Punisher coming out.

Edited by Oroku_Saki, 31 March 2004 - 01:46 AM.

[Death]

Nah, dude... Right now, Tom Cruise is at the head of the pack to play Tony Stark. That could very much rock.

However, more than anything else, I would like to see Alan Moore's "The Watchmen" adapted to film. I don't think it could be done in a single movie; in fact, I think the best way to go about it might be to do a twelve-part miniseries. It could be done as a live-action work, but it'd be damned hard to do it that way with any justice to the atmospheres which pervade the books, so animation may be the better way to go on this one. In any event, the Watchmen would make a kick-ass piece of filmwork, and those Hollywood bastards still need to do something to make up for screwing up Moore's "League." If you've ever read the actual books, you'll know exactly what I mean.

Alan Moore is (or perhaps I should say "was" given his recently announced retirement) easily the best comic book author I've come across. The Watchmen (which was certainly his masterpiece) has more depth and nuance to it, more attention to tiniest detail, than any other story I've ever read, no matter what the medium. His "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" was a much grittier tale (than the movie), infused on every page with a feeling of nineteenth-century British pulp-fiction.

Of course, this may also be the best argument against adapting Moore's work to film. It is written in such a manner, and at such a caliber, that transferring it to another medium may cause it to dim and lose its beauty.

Anyway, them's my two cents for the day.

[Famine]

I've thought over the possibility of adapting The Watchmen to various other mediums, how it could be implicated, etc and I keep coming to this conclusion. The problem with adapting The Watchmen is that it was a piece written specifically for it's time; the height of the Cold War.

It may be possible for the comic readers to immerse themselves in that time period and tap into all of the fear, paranoia, and uncertainty which characterized the early 80's, but I don't think your average movie goer (teenie-bopper to college) is going to be able or willing to make make that mental shift.

My greatest fear is that a director would take this piece, strip off everything that concretely dates the story, and tries to modernize it to appeal to a young audience. The story wasn't just about super-heroes being real, it was about real people trying to find the courage and justification to fight for a better tomorrow while living under the threat that tomorrow might not come. From Rorshach, Nite Owl, and Silk Spectre, to the NYPD Detective, Psychiatrist, and Newspaper Vendor, every character had that in common.

I dunno, I think Watchmen might be one best left alone. And if anyone tries to press the subject that terrorists having living in that same fear than you obviously are unable to grasp the terrible finality of what the Cold War represented. Terrorists blowing up a building kills a few hundred.
Two super powers detonating their nuclear arsenal kills every living creature on the planet.

[rawray7]

sorry to interrupt this watchmen convo, but i just got tickets to a press preview of hellboy for tonight, so i'll tell you all about later tonight or tomorrow. it's pretty cool, i was just walking around north hollywood yesterday to pick up some music from Amoeba, and this guy gave me tickets to this hellboy preview. all i had to do was call a toll-free number, give them my name, age and ethnicity and show up a little early to the theatre. it's funny because on the ticket it says things like: "only valid for audience members 15-24" and "anyone can/will be rejected if he she is under the influence of drugs or alchohol, carrying a video recording device, dressed in improper attire or is dirty." i just think it would be hilarious to see someone get kicked out for being dirty. there's also a footnote adding that camera-phones must be left outside. anyway, i'm pumped for it, hopefully the rumors that del Torro worked closely with Mignola are true.

[Blaster]

Wow, I didn't know how many other comic fans there were around here. As long as this is a comic topic I might as well ask this; does anyone know who this Howard Saint from The Punisher is? I've been considering seeing this movie and I was wondering who this guy is? I know in the movie he's the guy who organized the slaughter of his family, but does he even exist in the comics? I did some research and couldn't find him.

[Famine]

Don't quote me on this but I believe Howard Saint is suppossed to be a blending of a few different characters. I'm pretty sure it was the mob who killed Castle's family in the comics because they found out he was undercover DEA or something. The details of his backstory have been rewritten once or twice.

[Blaster]

Ok, thanks for helping me out there, it was really starting to bug me. By the way what do you think of the upcoming Spiderman movie? Personally I think it looks pretty good. I also heard rumors of Venom making an appearance in this one. Anyone else heard of this, or have any clue as to whether or not the rumors are true? I'm just wondering because it looked like the next movie was going to be mainly based on Dr. Octopus for the villain.

[DoubleLnL]

The name Dr. Octopus has always made me crack up because the picture of Zoidberg flashes into my mind. I know he's not an octopus or anything, but I think it has to do with those tentacles on his face.

[Oroku Saki]

As far as I know, the only villian in the next Spidey movie is going to be Doc Oc.

[rawray7]

again sorry to interrupt...i've got an official hellboy report:

first off, as a movie, i guess it was okay. there was definately a good amount of action, some funny parts, some pretty cool CG stuff. on the suspense, i wasn't worried about Hellboy for a minute. as an interpretation of the comics, i found it really annoying. Because they fucked up in the places where you just can't fuck up, and did a really good job in the places where it doesn't matter. for 1) the primary monster in this movie was never in the comics, and isn't that cool of a monster. 2) they add this young CIA agent to the story, whose job is supposed to be to watch out for Hellboy, and this guy totally ruins the story. because not only does he get Liz to come back to BPRD which is supposed to be Hellboy's job, but he also interferes in Hellboys choice to choose his "destiny" or not, which makes him the reason why hellboy stays good. but in the comics, hellboy is badass enough to do this by himself, without an extra character. 3) Liz's clothes don't burn off. in the comics, when she has "an episode" and lights on fire, the only thing that doesn't get burned is her(and hellboy because he's fire-proof) but everything else burns. in the movie, her clothes stay on after she lights on fire. not only is this a big consistency issue, but there are no butt-shots, nothing. 4) the conqueror worm looks lame. 5) they tried to incorporate something from every graphic novel all into one movie, but they didn't follow full story of any of them. i mean, it was based on seed of destruction, but just about everything in the movie except the beggining is a completely fabricated new story. if they'd tried harder to follow Seed Of Destruction, i think they would have come out with a better movie.

there's more if anyone wants to hear it. as a movie, i encourage you guys to see it because i really want to see what you think about it, not having read the comics. i was too bogged down by the errors to judge it as "just a movie".

[moosenukem]

Did they advertise Hellboy during the super bowl?

And I asume that it is in theatres now?


Moose

[rawray7]

Did they advertise Hellboy during the super bowl?

And I asume that it is in theatres now?

don't think so, but i don't remember

it comes out tomorrow