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You May Not Want To Re-barrell Your 4b Just Yet...

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#1 Kabigon

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Posted 17 February 2010 - 07:09 PM

Hello! This is my first post, and I would like thank you guys for validating me! I hope to have a good time on the forums! Now lets get on to the modding...

What you will need:

1. Wall-Mart rocket thing that didn't even have a name. $3 and my dad found it in a checkout isle
2. Electrical tape

Sounds simple? Well it is!

First, here is a picture of the gun...
Posted Image
It really comes with three rockets, but I lost one already. And it doesn't come with the electrical tape added :D

Well, by now I assume you know what to do so grab some e-tape and a rocket.
Posted Image
Then grab some e-tape and wrap it around the front end until you are satisfied. There's a reason why I'm not listing a certain amount. There is no set amount of tape that you can add. For all three rockets I used the same amount of e-tape on the first try, and it worked for only one. You will need to test different amounts for every rocket. So you will need a little of trial and error to get it right. When you get it right it should fly straight. But that's part of modding!

Here's my finished product:
Posted Image

Now on to the good part that you guys want to know...RANGES.

For the ranges I used a Berserker with only the little orange tab on the missile launcher cut off.
Posted Image

To load:

The first time you will put it on it will be pretty tight. You will probably have to screw it on. After a few shots
the foam adjusts and it fits perfect.

Here is a shot of it loaded (sorry for the sunny pic)
Posted Image

RANGES:

All ranges were taken with a laser range finder. I tried to shoot it as level as possible, because our level just cracked thanks to our little sister.
Posted Image

Here is a picture showing a shot through the range finder. I was a pain to align it up so I only did it the first time. You can see the dart inbetween the 1.5 on this pic, so I did not aim where it landed, I saw where it hit so I'm not measuring dart skip.
Posted Image

I took three shots:

1. 31.5yd = 94.5 feet
2. 29.4yd = 88.2 feet
3. 30.7yd = 92.1 feet

I was very pleased with this mod and the arrows look like it was made for it.

Thanks for reading and any comments, questions, concerns? Any criticism is appreciated!

Edited by Kabigon, 17 February 2010 - 07:47 PM.

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QUOTE(Tannman500 @ Aug 14 2008, 08:17 PM) View Post

CDdts r great u new to nerf if u dont know how to make them
NOOB


#2 Daniel Beaver

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Posted 17 February 2010 - 07:49 PM

How accurate are they?
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#3 Kabigon

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Posted 17 February 2010 - 07:57 PM

How accurate are they?


They are actually very accurate if you have the right amount of e-tape.
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QUOTE(Tannman500 @ Aug 14 2008, 08:17 PM) View Post

CDdts r great u new to nerf if u dont know how to make them
NOOB


#4 b1g13en

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Posted 17 February 2010 - 09:07 PM

Wouldn't it be cheaper if you make rockets with Foam Pipe Insulation than using these?

http://nerfhaven.com...showtopic=17273 <- I was referring to making these.

Edited by b1g13en, 17 February 2010 - 09:10 PM.

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#5 moosa

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Posted 17 February 2010 - 10:35 PM

It's $3 for three of them, already factory made, and it comes with some sort of little gun thing which looks like it might make a nice handle. I don't think the cost is that big an issue.

Good find with this. Nice ranges for a stock blaster shooting arrows. Are you going to go out and grab more?
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#6 cheyner

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 12:12 AM

..and it comes with some sort of little gun thing which looks like it might make a nice handle.


I've seen these before, and if I'm not mistaken the handle is hollow foam, and you squeeze your hand to shot it. It was $5 where I saw it, so needless to say I did not buy one to confirm my theory on the firing.
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#7 HOTH

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 01:18 AM

I applaud you for such a nice first post. Interesting idea, too.
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#8 Zack the Mack

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 09:58 AM

You shot a weighted missile a hundred feet? Unless you angled that Berserker, I'm calling shenanigans on this one.
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#9 billyblue888

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 11:08 AM

This is cool but how does the blaster that come with it work. Just to confirm.
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#10 cheyner

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 01:31 PM

This is cool but how does the blaster that come with it work. Just to confirm.


I've seen these before, and if I'm not mistaken the handle is hollow foam, and you squeeze your hand to shot it.


My bad, skimmed the confirm part.

Edited by cheyner, 18 February 2010 - 01:33 PM.

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Beaver's post claiming Kane's post claiming Demon Lord's post is correct is correct is correct.


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#11 Kabigon

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 02:11 PM

It's $3 for three of them, already factory made, and it comes with some sort of little gun thing which looks like it might make a nice handle. I don't think the cost is that big an issue.

Good find with this. Nice ranges for a stock blaster shooting arrows. Are you going to go out and grab more?


Yes I plan to go out and grab more. Except that my family is pretty busy so we only really have time on the weekends.

..and it comes with some sort of little gun thing which looks like it might make a nice handle.


I've seen these before, and if I'm not mistaken the handle is hollow foam, and you squeeze your hand to shot it. It was $5 where I saw it, so needless to say I did not buy one to confirm my theory on the firing.


Yeah you squeeze the handle to shoot it. The missiles are actually pretty light so when you shoot it even on the squeeze gun they still spiral a little bit.

I applaud you for such a nice first post. Interesting idea, too.


Thank you!

You shot a weighted missile a hundred feet? Unless you angled that Berserker, I'm calling shenanigans on this one.


As I pointed out in my post my little sister was playing around with it and it broke. So I'm not saying it's perfectly level but I tried to make it as level as possible. And the missiles are actually slightly heavier, if not the same weight, as a stock tagger.

This is cool but how does the blaster that come with it work. Just to confirm.


You squeeze the handle.


Thanks for all the comments!

Edited by Kabigon, 18 February 2010 - 02:13 PM.

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QUOTE(Tannman500 @ Aug 14 2008, 08:17 PM) View Post

CDdts r great u new to nerf if u dont know how to make them
NOOB


#12 moosa

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 10:39 PM

You shot a weighted missile a hundred feet? Unless you angled that Berserker, I'm calling shenanigans on this one.


As I pointed out in my post my little sister was playing around with it and it broke. So I'm not saying it's perfectly level but I tried to make it as level as possible. And the missiles are actually slightly heavier, if not the same weight, as a stock tagger.


If it's the same weight as a stock tagger, and significantly larger, that means an equal amount of inertia but significantly greater air resistance. So it should perform worse than a stock tagger.

Nobody has any reason to think you're not being honest, but I think it would make sense to take the given ranges with a grain of salt until a more reliable method is used to measure them.
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#13 MindWarrior

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 11:20 PM

Since he's measuring the distance standing up, the ranges are probably a little bit larger compared to if we used a tape measure flat on the ground. Imagine a right triangle, he's measuring the hypotenuse (Line BC on the diagram below), while we're measuring one of the sides (Line AB), Its gonna be a bit longer.
Posted Image
Also, its a foam ROCKET. Not a dart, it can sail through the air like a BBB arrow, which helps give it better ranges, and the added weight from the etape should help a bit too.

Edited by MindWarrior, 18 February 2010 - 11:21 PM.

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QUOTE(Ryan201821 @ Jan 2 2010, 03:20 PM) View Post

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#14 Kabigon

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 11:29 PM

Since he's measuring the distance standing up, the ranges are probably a little bit larger compared to if we used a tape measure flat on the ground. Imagine a right triangle, he's measuring the hypotenuse (Line BC on the diagram below), while we're measuring one of the sides (Line AB), Its gonna be a bit longer.
Posted Image
Also, its a foam ROCKET. Not a dart, it can sail through the air like a BBB arrow, which helps give it better ranges, and the added weight from the etape should help a bit too.



I did not think of the measuring while sanding up. So yes the ranges are probbably a little longer that what you guys measure with. Thanks!

Edited by Kabigon, 18 February 2010 - 11:44 PM.

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QUOTE(Tannman500 @ Aug 14 2008, 08:17 PM) View Post

CDdts r great u new to nerf if u dont know how to make them
NOOB


#15 Kabigon

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 11:36 PM

Sorry for double post...

moosa, Are you saying that tape measuring is the only reliable way to get ranges? If I'm not mistaken, most militarys around the world use them to measure out distances. They are 100% reliable, accurate, and consistent. Just because most people don't use them for measuring ranges for nerf doesn't mean that its not reliable. They are so much easier to use anyways. You don't have to unravel a 100 foot tape measure to get ranges, you just push a button. Anyways, our longest tape measure is 25 feet, and stock blasters go farther. So I used what I had available.

Who knows, mabey I'll start a trend? :P

Edited by Kabigon, 18 February 2010 - 11:43 PM.

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QUOTE(Tannman500 @ Aug 14 2008, 08:17 PM) View Post

CDdts r great u new to nerf if u dont know how to make them
NOOB


#16 moosa

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 04:50 AM

Well, I'm not saying that it isn't reliable, no. More that we can't necessarily tell just how reliable it is. A tape measure is pretty hard to doubt. Even with a 25 foot tape, you can take a fairly accurate measurement if you carefully set a marker every 25 feet and carry the tape. It would do you well to simply see how closely it matches up with your laser so that you know how much you can rely on it. Perhaps it is very accurate, but you never know until you test it.

Also, I believe it would be theoretically impossible to take a measurement with the laser from ground level on level ground (yes that makes sense). I suppose if it's significant enough you could use some simple math to reduce it to a level measurement, but again that's assuming the ground is level.

Does a foam missile actually create a sail? I suppose it does, so that could make sense too.
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#17 MindWarrior

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 11:29 AM

Range finders provide many variables themselves. The height of the person will affect the range recorded by the laser. Unless we use trigonometry, tape measures will usually provide more consistent results for a cheaper price. I'm not saying range finders are bad to use, but then people should realize that ranges should be a bit higher than with regular methods. But ranges are not always important.
Bah, I forgot to compliment you on your mod, nice work!

Edited by MindWarrior, 19 February 2010 - 11:30 AM.

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QUOTE(Ryan201821 @ Jan 2 2010, 03:20 PM) View Post

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#18 Ambience 327

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 12:25 PM

Guys, you don't need a tape measure or fancy trigonometry to figure out the distance here - simply basic geometry and the application of the Pythagorean Theorum. (A^2 + B^2 = C^2)

If we assume that the laser range finder was held at 5' above the ground (a foot or so either way makes little difference), we can see that:

A2 + B2 = C2

A^2 + 5^2 = 94.5^2

A^2 + 25 = 8930.25

A^2 = 8905.25

A = 94.367632162


That tells us that the linear distance the dart travelled (what you would be measuring with a tape measure) is roughly 94.36 feet. See how close that 94.5 foot "estimate" with the range finder was? This still tells us that the thing went 90+ feet.

I didn't doubt the claim for a second, mainly due to the fact that Kabigon actually measured to the point where he saw the dart hit, not where it finally stopped. That told me enough about his methods to know that he was being as precise as possible. My guess is, as Mindwarrior pointed out, the fins on these "rockets" helped stabilise the flight and allowed these darts to achieve such a nice distance. My guess is, however, that their velocity is probably not as high as a stefan that goes the same distance, as the fins probably keep this dart up longer at lower speeds. Hence, they are probably easier to dodge (and certainly easier to see).

Edited by Ambience 327, 19 February 2010 - 04:23 PM.

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#19 VelveetaAvenger

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 12:32 PM

Range finders provide many variables themselves. The height of the person will affect the range recorded by the laser. Unless we use trigonometry, tape measures will usually provide more consistent results for a cheaper price. I'm not saying range finders are bad to use, but then people should realize that ranges should be a bit higher than with regular methods. But ranges are not always important.
Bah, I forgot to compliment you on your mod, nice work!


Fortunately, trigonometry is quite easy.

http://ostermiller.o...c/triangle.html

Now, I was too lazy to figure out what b was on my own, so I went to this handy triangle calculator and let the computer do it for me. Entering one side as 6.00 (the height of the person), the hypotenuse as 90.00 (the actual mean is a little higher, but it's close enough) and the angle from the person to the ground as 90.00 resulted in the length on the ground being 89.80.

Obviously the laser would be held slightly lower then a persons height, but that's only going to make it more accurate. Even if you go down to 20' for the laser range, the equation yields results of 19.1' for distance on the ground.


Long story short,if you're measuring into the 90's you might be a couple inches off, if you're only going 20' you're a little under a foot off. It really isn't a problem at all.

Edit: I'm really slow at making posts, but there's a link to a fancy online calculator in mine for lazy people!

Edited by VelveetaAvenger, 19 February 2010 - 12:34 PM.

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#20 moosa

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 08:22 AM

Appreciate you guys taking the time to do out the math. The height of the range finder is pretty insignificant then. I am still interested in what other factors may be involved with these results. Is it very common for foam missile ammo to reach 90 feet flat? These are essentially unweighted mind you.

Edited by moosa, 20 February 2010 - 08:24 AM.

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