Jump to content


Photo

Break Barrel Ss2

AT3K pin = airflow mod + tank expansion! Post 12.

19 replies to this topic

#1 bourbon

bourbon

    Member

  • Members
  • 66 posts

Posted 23 January 2010 - 05:52 PM

Hello Nerfhaven. Today we're going to modify an underrated classic, the Secret Shot 2. Released in 1998 under the Airjet Power line, the Secret Shot 2 was my very first blaster. As such, it holds significant nostalgic value to me. My goal with this modification is to not only increase the effective range of the gun, but to also overcome the other glaring weaknesses the SS2 has, such as holsterability, reload time, and accuracy.




Here are the supplies required for this mod.

- 14" of SCH 40 PVC
- Dremel
- Super Glue
- Plumber's Goop
- Hot Glue
- Pipe Cutters
- Hobby Knife
- Check Valve (found where aquarium supplies are sold)
- PVC coupler
- 1" of PETG (12" required if micro stefans are being used)
- Electrical tape



I am going to assume you already have the gun open and have an understanding of how it works, just to speed things up a bit. I've rambled plenty already.


First things first, use your pipe cutters to cut off most of the stock barrel. Then use your dremel / drill / whatever to get rid of the AR. This part is so basic I'm not putting pictures or elaborating on it.

Next we need to tackle is the pump. This gun takes WAY too many pumps to prime, it's a long reload even for air guns. At 8 pumps, the OPRV goes. At 10, the gun starts shooting quite powerfully. 15 is about maximum power. I've taken it up to 20, but it didn't add much more range. I'm sure now you have an idea of how tedious the pumping on this gun is. 15:1. That is probably the worst pump to shot ratio out of any Nerf gun ever. The problem is remarkably easy to fix. The check valve in the SS2 is in the back of the tank, which means there is plenty of dead space between the check valve and the end of the pump stroke. Obviously, this is a bad thing, as this much dead space makes pressurizing the tank difficult. You can feel it around 15 pumps, very little air is actually getting into the tank at this point. If we can move the check valve closer to the end of the pump, not only will each pump be more efficient, but we will be able to take the tank up to higher pressures.

First, obviously you're going to want to plug the pump. Then, insert a check valve as close to the pump end as you can. It's much easier to attach if you heat the tubing with boiling water first. Once you've done that, attach the tank to the other end of the check valve. With the relocated check valve, you will be able to fill the air tank to much higher pressure, possibly in fewer pumps. Mine worked amazingly well. I put the new pump back in the SS2, with the stock pump handle, and the OPRV went at 5 pumps. That was a good sign.

Posted Image

The next portion of this modification involves replacing the barrel with SCH 40 PVC. In case you couldn't tell from my supply list, I fire mega stefans from this gun. They are far more accurate, and the slight range decrease doesn't matter when you have this kind of power. The reload time on the SS2 is too abysmal to miss. It's basically a Golden Gun, you have one shot most of the time. I figured I could go without dick waving about a 140' shooting pistol and choose reliability instead.

If I haven't sold you on megas, that's OK. You can nest PETG in your barrel no problem.

Basically, take your secret barrel and dremel, sand, and remove everything that prevents you from fitting your 12" PVC barrel through it. I didn't really have a method for this, I just kept going until it fit. When you've finished, do not glue the barrel in yet. Here's a little before and after for you.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Stick a 1" chunk of PETG in the base of your tank. Wrap E-tape around it so that it's snug, then smother the whole thing with Plumber's Goop and slip your 2" length of PVC over it so that it is airtight. Cut down a PVC coupler so that when it is in place, it is flush with the front of the gun.

Posted Image

Dremel out the coupler a bit so that the barrel can slip into it easier.

Posted Image

Super glue your PVC coupler on the end of the PVC. Dremel out all the ridges inside the shell so everything fits properly. Once the tank and barrel are back in place, the coupler should be pretty close to flush with the front of the gun. It doesn't have to be perfect, just as long as it's not off by a huge amount. I gooped and later E-taped each seam so that it is all airtight. Even the slightest leak negatively affects range.

Posted Image


Slip your first, 12" PVC barrel into the secret barrel, again, not glued. Swing the barrel down and test fit it into the coupler. Your goal here is to keep beveling the edges of the coupler and barrel with the dremel until they can lock into place with minimal effort. Ideally, the operation should be smooth enough that the barrel can be locked into place with a quick flick of the wrist.

When you think you've got it, super glue the 12" PVC barrel into the secret barrel.

Posted Image


If it isn't obvious by now, we've got an upside down break barrel set-up here. To load, just flip the barrel up and lock it into place. Load your stefan in the original barrel and hit the secret barrel release as you flick your wrist downwards. The torsion spring combined with the wrist action should flip the barrel down and lock it in perfectly straight every time. By far, the coolest part about this is you don't have to fumble with the barrel with you load it, unlike on regular couplered guns. Better still, when the barrel is flipped up, this gun is actually holsterable. Yes, obviously the barrel will stick out of your pocket, it's by no means concealable, but it slips into a pair of cargo pants no problem. The front profile of the gun is about the size of a Nitefinder without ammo holders. This makes the SS2 a viable sidearm. When not in use, you can still have it pumped and loaded with a full, foot long barrel in your pocket. When the situation arises, pull it out of your pocket, hitting the secret barrel release as you do so. The barrel will flip down, and you're ready to fire, just like that.

The gun says "Justin's Alexander's" on it, if this was your gun, feel proud. He's a man now.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Having this kind of power and range in your side-arm frees up different possibilities with your primary. You can use a scattergun, an automatic, a ball gun, whatever strange contraption you want, and you can always fall back on your Secret Shot 2 for those distance kills. The blaster is also easily powerful enough to be used as a main weapon. With the break barrel, reload times are now respectable, and you can outrange guns several times larger (and heavier) no problem, which greatly enhances your mobility.

I'm sure you are curious about ranges. At first, I was getting 70', which I thought was pretty abysmal considering my hard work. Then I remembered something about more powerful guns needing heavier darts. I made my megas a while ago when I was new at the whole stefan thing, and weighted them with a single copper BB. I quickly put together a few darts with 3 BBs, and despite the shittiness of the darts, the range increased to 90' easily. I have yet to test heavier than that, but I doubt it is possible to break 100'. Oh, and the pump count decreased significantly. 6 pumps is a decent shot, 10 is ridiculous, and at 12, the gun becomes nearly impossible to pump, and the darts start fishtailing despite the massive barrel. The range tests were taken with 10 pumps. A 50% decrease in priming time is always welcome, and with the break barrel the gun can be reloaded in seconds.

Questions? Comments? fire away!

Edited by bourbon, 27 January 2010 - 09:47 PM.

  • 0

#2 angelfalcon

angelfalcon

    Member

  • Members
  • 61 posts
  • Location:Toronto, Ontario

Posted 23 January 2010 - 06:04 PM

Two words.

Awe. Some.

Do you plan on getting some accurate range tests with non-sloppy triple-weighted darts? I think you might be able to hit 95' or 100'.

And considering that's with a sidearm firing megas, 100 is equal to maybe 170 from a pump primary using micros.

Edited by angelfalcon, 23 January 2010 - 06:06 PM.

  • 0
QUOTE

According to your mom, size matters. My blaster is four feet long. What about yours?

QUOTE

I measured mine and I got about 11 inches.

#3 louiec3

louiec3

    Member

  • Members
  • 316 posts
  • Location:Columbus
  • State:Ohio

Posted 23 January 2010 - 06:17 PM

It seems like the extra 2in of pvc between the barrel and tank could be used as an inline clip, but that will only work if you use micros not megas.
I must give you props for retaining the secret barrel, because that is the coolest part of the gun.
  • 0

#4 Daniel Beaver

Daniel Beaver

    HQRSE CQCK

  • Moderators
  • 2,074 posts
  • NerfHaven Subscription Supporter
  • Location:Minneapolis
  • State:Minnesota
  • Country:United States

Posted 23 January 2010 - 06:25 PM

And considering that's with a sidearm firing megas, 100 is equal to maybe 170 from a pump primary using micros.

I think that's a tad optimistic.


Great work, though.
  • 0

#5 bourbon

bourbon

    Member

  • Members
  • 66 posts

Posted 23 January 2010 - 06:37 PM

Oh, I do use that 2" section of PVC. That is where I load the dart. The secret barrel is dremeled out on the inside edge a bit so it picks up the dart when it flips down. So technically I have a 14" barrel on here.


@ Angelfalcon: The other SS2 mods got 140' at best I believe with micros. While I have a slightly longer barrel than the others, and way higher tank pressures (12 pumps with the stock pump is nothing) I'm not sure 170' is possible. The SS2 tank is much bigger than the AT3K tank though, and ryan gets 140' with that, so it's definitely worth a shot. I'll try it when I get my hands on some slingshot weights.

You still have to consider megas for this gun though. I mean, who cares if the gun shoots 170', you'll never hit anyone from that distance. I'd rather have the laser accuracy of megas and cut my range to 90. It's also slightly more humane. I pierced a pop can with this thing, I don't want to know what micros can do.
  • 0

#6 NerfMonkey

NerfMonkey

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,821 posts
  • Location:Woodbridge, VA
  • State:Virginia
  • Country:United States

Posted 23 January 2010 - 07:32 PM

This reminds me a bit of http://nerfhaven.com...?showtopic=6571.

Very nice work.
  • 0
SexD Warves

#7 Zorns Lemma

Zorns Lemma

    Sir Scrt

  • Moderators
  • 1,277 posts
  • Location:Dulles International Airport
  • State:Virginia
  • Country:United States

Posted 23 January 2010 - 10:13 PM

Sweet job on getting a solid seal at the breakaway part. Is it a perfect seal or is it just such a minimal leak that it doesn't matter?

As to your range "problem," I suggest cutting some length off of that barrel. While the SS2 tank is monstrous, you do have a decent section of dead space.
  • 0
"In short, the same knowledge that underlies the ability to produce correct judgement is also the knowledge that underlies the ability to recognize correct judgement. To lack the former is to be deficient in the latter."
Kruger and Dunning (1999)

#8 bourbon

bourbon

    Member

  • Members
  • 66 posts

Posted 23 January 2010 - 11:12 PM

Airtight seal and there isn't any dead space. I don't know how to explain it, but here is a sequence of pictures of how I load it. You don't put a dart in the secret barrel.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image
  • 0

#9 Blue

Blue

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,222 posts

Posted 24 January 2010 - 04:17 AM

Wow, that's perfect. A video would be great. There really is no way to use both the main barrel and secret barrel as 2 separate shots if you add any length to the stock barrels.
  • 0

#10 hawkshot

hawkshot

    Member

  • Members
  • 200 posts

Posted 25 January 2010 - 07:19 AM

Awesome, a break action SS2. Great mod, if I had that black piece with the spring right now I would already be done.

And for posterity: if you accidentally opened your secret barrel(the torsion spring) do not fret. What you do is line up one of the endings of the spring on the shell with the indent, and flip the secret barrel down, and line up the other end of the torsion spring with the indent on the secret barrel. Flip the secret barrel back up, holding onto the area where the torsion spring is, and screw it back together. Voila.
  • 0
Call me Hawk.


Hawkshot, one of the founding FL Nerfers.

#11 bourbon

bourbon

    Member

  • Members
  • 66 posts

Posted 25 January 2010 - 08:25 PM

if you accidentally opened your secret barrel(the torsion spring) do not fret. What you do is line up one of the endings of the spring on the shell with the indent, and flip the secret barrel down, and line up the other end of the torsion spring with the indent on the secret barrel. Flip the secret barrel back up, holding onto the area where the torsion spring is, and screw it back together. Voila.


Yeah, I figured this out almost immediately. You don't even have to move it back to screw, just put in the screws when the barrel is flipped down. I never understood why every other SS2 write-up claims it is impossible to re-attach. It seems that the older the gun, the more tall tales there are about it.

Here's another myth about the SS2. If your tank is leaking or won't hold air, don't spray a bunch of lube into it. It's probably the check valve. Even the slightest check valve leak can dislodge the valve pin, causing air to come out the front of the gun.

Edited by bourbon, 25 January 2010 - 08:29 PM.

  • 0

#12 TantumBull

TantumBull

    Member

  • Moderators
  • 1,929 posts
  • Location:Seattle, WA
  • State:Washington
  • Country:United States
  • u/LukeKoboJobo on Reddit

Posted 27 January 2010 - 12:12 AM

Here's another myth about the SS2. If your tank is leaking or won't hold air, don't spray a bunch of lube into it. It's probably the check valve. Even the slightest check valve leak can dislodge the valve pin, causing air to come out the front of the gun.

Whatever the cause is, it doen't automatically chenge the solution. With all my older piston valve guns that have had leaks out the front, spray lube has fixed them all, and there's no trouble two years later.

Awesome job on the seal, I would have use some sort of rubber to help the seal, you must have a lot of patience to get that good of a seal from shaved plastic on shaved plastic.

Also, did you ever get the flow modded valve working? I'm going use monster tubing and attach a large dump valve for the trigger valve On the salvo soon, but am curious as to what you tried.

Edited by TantumBull, 27 January 2010 - 12:13 AM.

  • 0

#13 bourbon

bourbon

    Member

  • Members
  • 66 posts

Posted 27 January 2010 - 09:14 PM

About that. I did your mod, and as expected, the tank didn't have enough pull to move the pin. It sealed perfectly but that damn pin wouldn't pull back, and as a result, the air release was terrible. I still have all the parts sitting around if you ever figure anything out. Unfortunately I don't see a way to fix it on the SS2 outside of a CPVC tank expansion, which I just might have to do. Another theory would be to actually convert the tank to a pin-style valve release. I can gut an AT3K tank for its spring, pin, and gasket, then find a way to hook up a trigger. This would also technically enlarge the working volume of the tank since the pilot tank and firing tank would no longer be separate.

The original draft of this mod was going to incorporate the tank mod (and I was going to call it an "overhaul" since I would have improved every part of the gun somehow) but the tank didn't work. Fortunately the check valve thing worked much better than I expected or else I probably wouldn't have posted this. The break barrel thing is cool, but probably not enough to make a thread about.


EDIT:

Holy shit, am I ever excited. Check this piece of work out gentlemen:


Posted Image

I was able to put an AT3K valve pin in here. Not only should the tank be able to handle the enlarged opening, but the tank is LARGER because the pilot tank is no longer needed to fire the gun. When I get my hands on some epoxy or something to reassemble this tank, I'll be in the money. Now I just have to figure out a trigger, which shouldn't be too hard. More volume and faster airflow should translate into a massive range increase.


Just look at the size of this tank. It is at least 50% bigger than the AT3K tank. With similar pressure (and now air release), it should be absolutely wasting Ryan's 3K ranges.

Posted Image

Edited by bourbon, 28 January 2010 - 12:08 AM.

  • 0

#14 cheesypiza001

cheesypiza001

    Member

  • Members
  • 752 posts
  • Location:Connecticut

Posted 27 January 2010 - 10:23 PM

Wow, nice work. If I remember correctly, the SS2 tank is slightly larger than an SM5K tank so you should be able to get a LOT of range out of that thing.
  • 0

#15 nerfer9

nerfer9

    Member

  • Members
  • 680 posts
  • State:California
  • Country:United States

Posted 28 January 2010 - 12:46 AM

Ah, ss2s...my favorite blaster....If only they didn't break so easily. About the secret barrel screw: Instead of unscrewing the screw on the side with the rest of the the screws, unscrew the one on the other side. This will stop you from having to reset the barrel mechanism.

Edited by nerfer9, 28 January 2010 - 12:48 AM.

  • 0

#16 Blue

Blue

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,222 posts

Posted 28 January 2010 - 12:50 AM

I'm not seeing how this will work... The pin has to seal in the front and in the back, and you can't just dremel the tank to fit. If you do manage to get the thing to seal, rigging a trigger to the pin would not pull it equally like a stock gun so whatever setup you could think of would also have to be durable. You would have been better off just simply using an at3k tank if this is the route you want to take.
  • 0

#17 bourbon

bourbon

    Member

  • Members
  • 66 posts

Posted 28 January 2010 - 03:03 AM

I'm not seeing how this will work... The pin has to seal in the front and in the back, and you can't just dremel the tank to fit. If you do manage to get the thing to seal, rigging a trigger to the pin would not pull it equally like a stock gun so whatever setup you could think of would also have to be durable. You would have been better off just simply using an at3k tank if this is the route you want to take.



I'm using the stock o-ring on my valve pin, and the hole I drilled is just barely big enough for the pin (I had to force it through) so it should seal there. The stopper on the front of the pin is the same diameter as the stock one, and it seals up the hole nicely. I have a ring of PVC in there are well so the stopper can't get stuck crooked. I'll post better pics tomorrow.

There is a large, plastic pin in the back of the blaster I can probably use as a pulley. I'll connect fishing wire to the valve pin, loop it around the peg, then connect it to the trigger. It should have a long enough pull to open the valve.

If it doesn't work, then whatever, the tank was toast already by attempting TBs mod. I have nothing to lose.
  • 0

#18 CA13

CA13

    Nude Nerfer

  • Members
  • 234 posts

Posted 28 January 2010 - 08:20 PM

I liked the trigger design on the SS2. I'm glad someone actually executed an idea I had in my head for the longest while. I'm modding my SS2, and instead of the barrel system I have installed a 4-5 shot inline clip. The inline clip seems really nice for this mod, as you don't have to fiddle around sticking darts from the side into your blaster.
  • 0
Doing this as I speak. I have no idea when I got it...my DAD got it some 15 years ago, but that doesn't matter. Anyways, it keeps jerking around all over the place. I try to hold it with a rag...It doesn't look like...much.

#19 Blue

Blue

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,222 posts

Posted 28 January 2010 - 08:24 PM

I'm not seeing how this will work... The pin has to seal in the front and in the back, and you can't just dremel the tank to fit. If you do manage to get the thing to seal, rigging a trigger to the pin would not pull it equally like a stock gun so whatever setup you could think of would also have to be durable. You would have been better off just simply using an at3k tank if this is the route you want to take.



I'm using the stock o-ring on my valve pin, and the hole I drilled is just barely big enough for the pin (I had to force it through) so it should seal there. The stopper on the front of the pin is the same diameter as the stock one, and it seals up the hole nicely. I have a ring of PVC in there are well so the stopper can't get stuck crooked. I'll post better pics tomorrow.

There is a large, plastic pin in the back of the blaster I can probably use as a pulley. I'll connect fishing wire to the valve pin, loop it around the peg, then connect it to the trigger. It should have a long enough pull to open the valve.

If it doesn't work, then whatever, the tank was toast already by attempting TBs mod. I have nothing to lose.


You lost the 3k tank. Also, Icenine did that mod (Pulley thing) awhile back, try searching for it, it might help you.
  • 0

#20 Ice Nine

Ice Nine

    Prince Dangus

  • Administrators
  • 1,460 posts
  • Location:West LA
  • State:California
  • Country:United States

Posted 28 January 2010 - 08:44 PM

I never posted the finished product.

But it's pretty easy to figure out how I finished it.

Posted Image

Attach wire to trigger, wrap wire around flatheaded screw, attach wire to pin. Translates trigger forward movement into backwards pin movement.

Tank fucked up later. I'm doing a revised design with a machined trigger and different tank setup at the next mod party.
  • 0

Unholy Three: DUPLUM SCRTA, DUPLUM PROBLEMA (2009)

But Zeke guns tend to be like proofs by contradiction

Theoretically solid but actually non-constructive

Rnbw Cln



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users