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Reverse Plungers

Maybe not such a bad thing after all

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#1 VelveetaAvenger

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 01:42 PM

There have been lots of complaints about the reverse plunger system across a lot of threads lately, and I had an interesting thought about the topic this morning. I decided to post it separately instead of muddying up the Product Awareness thread or either of the new blaster threads, hope that's ok.

Technically, Nerf has been listening to the suggestions of our online community pretty well. People seem to have forgotten that for the past 6 months or so, a fair majority have been complaining about blasters getting too powerful and ruining the rushing game. Now we've got a whole line of blasters that can shoot a lot of shots rather quickly and range about 40-50 feet when modded, which sounds like the perfect blaster for a rushing game to me.

I realize that Nerf could probably care less about the forums and that reverse plunger blasters have been around far longer then the complaints about power creep, but if we are serious about bringing the rushing game back, maybe we should be happy that Nerf is forcing us into it.
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#2 chefdave

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 02:03 PM

Plunger heads have nothing to do with the death of the rushing game. It is primarily that everyone has to prove their e-penis is bigger than every one else's by constantly one-uping each other when it comes to range.
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#3 BritNerfMogul

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 02:49 PM

I like the newest, reverse plunger blasters. Its given me a new perspective on nerfing. Having rof over range always wins for me. The only thing that bothers me is durability. I hate finding cracks in plunger tubes, especially when you've only removed the ARs.
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#4 CA13

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 04:59 PM

Nerf isn't listening to us. Really, what little kid would choose a single barreled blaster with 50 feet of effective range or a 6 barreled blaster that has 15 feet of range? Most kids just like the look of an extra barrel or magazine instead of actual effectiveness. If you ever nerfed when you were 4, honestly you didn't care about accuracy as much as how fucking cool it looked when it was on the box.

Edited by CA13, 23 January 2010 - 05:01 PM.

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#5 BritNerfMogul

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 05:07 PM

Why does everyone turn this it a hasbro philosophy discussion?

The reason they have done this is because it's cheaper. Reverse plungers require less parts which means less money to be spent on blasters, therefore making hasbro more money. End of. It's not that they listen to the NIC, they listen to their shareholders who want profit.
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#6 VelveetaAvenger

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 05:21 PM

Nerf isn't listening to us.


I should have been more clear in my original post. I know that Nerf doesn't listen to us, I was just pointing out that lots of people have been wanting more close up action at the wars they attend, and the Nerf has coincidentally been releasing blasters that are quite limited in range.

So instead of getting upset every time a reverse plunger is released, we have an opportunity to literally put our money where our mouths are and buy some cool looking blasters that encourage rushing.
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#7 Colbs

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 01:46 AM

Nerf isn't listening to us. Really, what little kid would choose a single barreled blaster with 50 feet of effective range or a 6 barreled blaster that has 15 feet of range? Most kids just like the look of an extra barrel or magazine instead of actual effectiveness. If you ever nerfed when you were 4, honestly you didn't care about accuracy as much as how fucking cool it looked when it was on the box.


But is one barrel that can shoot 60-70 ft actually more effective than a 6 barreled blaster that shoots 25-30 ft.? I'm not 4 years old, but I do have a tendancy to choose blasters that are fucking cool. It's what the hobby is about. Honestly I agree with the whole "e-penis" thing. Who cares if you blaster can shoot 30 feet further. I can run up and blast you with six darts in the face.* Or spray you down with ten darts from 20 feet. It's not about inverted plunger or not, It should be about how much fun it really is.

* I do not advocate "head shots"
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#8 BustaNinja

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 10:42 AM

Yeah, anyone who really wants to get uppity about ranges needs to go to an indoor war. Thats what Nerf is about. You get friends, ridiculous, quick firing, poor ranged blasters, and you have fun. People seem to be forgetting that last part. Nerf isn't a job, no one gets paid, so isn't it just about having fun, and doing something you like?

And yes, the maverick is the best pistol of all time.
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#9 durka durka

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 01:55 PM

And yes, the maverick is the best pistol of all time.


There's nothing like a maverick for indoor wars.

I don't think the reverse plunger is that bad. In fact, I have two recons and really like using them. The problem is that hasbro keeps putting the same exact internals into new guns. Sure, the new guns have neat little features, but when it comes down to it, they're nothing new.

The fact that hasbro isn't putting out nerf guns with massive range potential isn't a problem. Hasbro keeps putting the same thing in a new shell, and that limits the new things we can come up with.
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#10 k9turrent

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 02:19 PM

And yes, the maverick is the best pistol of all time.


There's nothing like a maverick for indoor wars.


Except a DTB, which I've used as a primary in an outdoor war wingman round, and came second to FA
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QUOTE View Post

That's about it. And thanks Angela who helped me with these pictures.. It looks huge in her hands.


HOLY CRAP!

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#11 NerfPancakes

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 01:36 PM

I believe an indoor war is easily more fun than an outdoor war 9 out of 10 times. The reason being is that people don't get boners over spending 10 hours integrating 5 different 2k tanks, and instead they choose a gun with cool features, and quickly mod it to there delight. The reverse plunger system has many modification potential, it's just that not many people have taken this into consideration, because you must be a bit more creative when modding a reverse plunger blaster. The Recon is my favorite Nerf gun of all time. It has many cool features, a lot of external modification potential, and at the same time, a good bit of internal modification potential. Sure the 12 ft. barrel boner forming long range integration guns are cool to have, and make, but in the end, it should be about the fun. If you have fun making 2k integrations, then do it. I myself enjoy the reverse plunger guns, so of course I will continue modifying them. The reverse plunger system is just another system Nerf is throwing at us, hoping we will have trouble modding them. But that's what they have been doing for 20 or more years. They have been producing new internal firing systems, and we Nerfers have always learned to master these systems, and modify to our best ability. We all complain about the reverse plunger system sometimes, but that is because it is taking us a good bit of time to master it, and be able to mod fully.
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the only problem is, the scope is filled with roach bodies and roach crap.



#12 Zack the Mack

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 02:32 PM

I believe an indoor war is easily more fun than an outdoor war 9 out of 10 times. The reason being is that people don't get boners over spending 10 hours integrating 5 different 2k tanks BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH


Indoor wars are definitely more fun, but it's REALLY GODDAMN HARD to find even a crappy indoor location.

War hosts: Try a reverse-plunger-only round.
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#13 alberty

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 02:33 PM

We all complain about the reverse plunger system sometimes, but that is because it is taking us a good bit of time to master it, and be able to mod fully.


Are you sure? What are these "cool" features of the Recon? What are the good external and internal potentials? I've only seen troublesome spring additions which involve hacking up the stock, and any internal mods to the Recon involving the same kind of rebarreling or rebreeching that is done similarly to a Longshot. From understanding those spring additions, you realize they're a workaround to the inhibiting design of the reverse plunger. And then, anything else "creative" involves an integration--not from a built-in cool feature of the Recon.

I don't know about you, I'd get a boner (figuratively) from putting 5 AT2K tanks on my BBB or Longshot--10 hours of work for 100+ hours of fun with it. Not for the range, but for the cool air blasting power. My first major mod was a BBB + Hornet integration, and obviously the range isn't too long. It took me all of December and January to gather parts and work on it, and I'm not feeling soft.
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#14 NerfPancakes

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 06:31 PM

We all complain about the reverse plunger system sometimes, but that is because it is taking us a good bit of time to master it, and be able to mod fully.


Are you sure? What are these "cool" features of the Recon? What are the good external and internal potentials? I've only seen troublesome spring additions which involve hacking up the stock, and any internal mods to the Recon involving the same kind of rebarreling or rebreeching that is done similarly to a Longshot. From understanding those spring additions, you realize they're a workaround to the inhibiting design of the reverse plunger. And then, anything else "creative" involves an integration--not from a built-in cool feature of the Recon.

I don't know about you, I'd get a boner (figuratively) from putting 5 AT2K tanks on my BBB or Longshot--10 hours of work for 100+ hours of fun with it. Not for the range, but for the cool air blasting power. My first major mod was a BBB + Hornet integration, and obviously the range isn't too long. It took me all of December and January to gather parts and work on it, and I'm not feeling soft.


Recon Cool Features:
Detachable Pieces
Takes Clips
Cheap
Effective and Compact
Customizable
Looks Awesome
Sure some of these things are similar, but you asked for cool features, so here you go.
Also, it comes with a laser light and a flip up sight.
Does that answer your question.
I have personally had loads of fun with Recons, with only spending 2-3 hours on them.
Like you said 100+ hours. I have that much fun with Recons easily.
I respect your opinion, but at the same time, I allways stand up for mine.
Finally, the reason you say that these reverse plunger systems are troublesome and have little potential, is, as I said in my first reply, because these systems are still relatively new, and few people have mastered them.
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the only problem is, the scope is filled with roach bodies and roach crap.



#15 dizzyduck

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 07:13 PM

Range is pointless. Why do people keep making such a big deal about range?!

Indoor wars are indeed fun. And yes, Rate of Fire rules the day in indoor wars.

Hasbro could not give less of a damn about the NIC. We are not significant to their bottom line in terms of sales of NERF products. Get over yourselves.

Use what you feel like using. If that's a Whiptail Scorpion integrated onto another Whiptail Scorpion, then Whiptail Scorpion it up like nobody's business.

Last I checked, Big Bad Bows were still being sold at retail at places like WalMart, Target, KMart and Toys R Us. I don't know why people get upset that NERF isn't re-releasing the SS2 or the SM5K. If you really NEED something that shoots 150 feet in order to be an effective nerfer, maybe you should find another hobby.

TL;DR: Stop waving your dicks around and go mod something.
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#16 alberty

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 07:38 PM

To a few of those:

"Detachable pieces" - the barrel in its stock form only hurt ranges, and the flip-up sight and laser scope are also not useful in their stock form.
"Cheap" - $20 isn't cheap for everyone as I feel that that's an individual manner
"Effective and Compact" - right, as an indoor weapon as Nerf intended. Effective depends on what you're doing. For indoor, sure. For a bigger variety, maybe, maybe not.
"Customizable" - well, those detachable pieces...
"Looks Awesome" - that's definitely a matter of opinion. I think the Hornet is "Ugly", but it performs pretty well if not defective
"Also it comes with a laser light and a flip up sight" - they're still useless (unmodded) after you refer to them for the third time

I am not saying I hate the Recon--I own one myself. I also do understand that Nerf isn't making guns for modders' demands. I just don't like the reverse plunger system, seeing as the ol' regular plunger system has worked fine for years.

I'll shut up before I get banned from talking anymore.

Edit: I never referred to his criticizing of AT2K mods as part of the Range vs. ROF debate. I was saying that integrating tanks isn't something miserable if you like the end result, and a powerful shooting weapon isn't useless in an indoor war. Just because one could be out-shot by another, doesn't mean one is better than the other. Each has pros and cons--ranged, single shot weapons for powerful straight shots at far distances, shorter, fast shooting weapons for closing distances and tight corridors. I feel fine using a BBB in an indoor war, even though it's a slow reload--that's what the integrations make up for.

Edited by alberty, 25 January 2010 - 07:45 PM.

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#17 VelveetaAvenger

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 08:36 PM

"Effective and Compact" - right, as an indoor weapon as Nerf intended. Effective depends on what you're doing. For indoor, sure. For a bigger variety, maybe, maybe not.


The best base defense I've encountered was one guy with a Recon using a drum clip.

Just for the record, I was not talking about indoor wars when I made this topic. You'll be hard pressed to find a blaster that isn't fun to use indoors, especially if everybody is using stock darts.

War hosts: Try a reverse-plunger-only round.


This is the kind of idea I was hoping to convey with this topic. Nerf is making plenty of blasters to help us encourage rushing, we just have to actually use them.
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#18 death by cheez

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 08:49 PM

Having rof over range always wins for me.


Why not an air powered (3k tank) 35 round blaster?
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#19 bourbon

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 09:42 PM

If Nerf wasn't at least partially about range, then we wouldn't waste our time modifying guns, then would we? Stock Nerf is fun, but when we modify our guns, we can take the game outside, and play on a much larger scale. You can't play goal based games like CTF indoors, there isn't enough room. You also can't play with 15 other people. If pretending you don't care about range makes you feel like a unique snowflake, go on and do it. I just can't see why you'd look to Nerfhaven for approval on your stance.


Just because I like blasters that shoot reasonably doesn't make me a terrible person. This hobby requires skill in multiple areas: athleticism, shooting, and yes, engineering. You can't say you're a better Nerfer than I am because you use a Recon. You can't just entirely ignore an aspect of Nerf because you don't like it. Modification always has been, and always will be a part of Nerf.

Oh yes, and about shooting: Since when is having to arc your shots and spray n' pray a 35 round drum clip around more skilled than hitting your target the first time? Since when is missing fun? Contrary to popular belief, people who like effective blasters don't have issues with penis size.

Edited by bourbon, 25 January 2010 - 09:42 PM.

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#20 dizzyduck

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 11:43 PM

You can't play goal based games like CTF indoors, there isn't enough room.


You've apparently never been to Dart of War at Universty of Maryland.
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#21 VelveetaAvenger

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 11:59 PM

Just because I like blasters that shoot reasonably doesn't make me a terrible person. This hobby requires skill in multiple areas: athleticism, shooting, and yes, engineering.


The problem people have been complaining about is that engineering has been taking over athleticism. When everybody is using a +bow or similar ranged blaster, the game becomes more about sitting behind cover and taking potshots at one another. The reason a rusher needs clips and more shots is because they're shooting while running. I rarely see people running and shooting an "effective" blaster simultaneously, at least if they're serious about hitting something.

It's just a different style of play that people have been missing, and I wanted to point out that reverse plungers are perfect for it. If you're not finding it to be a problem at your local games, don't worry about it.
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#22 alberty

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 12:03 AM

Agreed. I'll say I prefer my regular plungers to use in all games, but reverse plungers...well as long as they work, people have it available as a choice. If I ever had to play in a small indoor war or something, I would get around to removing the AR on my Raider. Otherwise, I will stick to my Longshot for a clipped gun.
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#23 z80

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 10:50 AM

Range is pointless. Why do people keep making such a big deal about range?!

Indoor wars are indeed fun. And yes, Rate of Fire rules the day in indoor wars.

Hasbro could not give less of a damn about the NIC. We are not significant to their bottom line in terms of sales of NERF products. Get over yourselves.

Use what you feel like using. If that's a Whiptail Scorpion integrated onto another Whiptail Scorpion, then Whiptail Scorpion it up like nobody's business.

Last I checked, Big Bad Bows were still being sold at retail at places like WalMart, Target, KMart and Toys R Us. I don't know why people get upset that NERF isn't re-releasing the SS2 or the SM5K. If you really NEED something that shoots 150 feet in order to be an effective nerfer, maybe you should find another hobby.

TL;DR: Stop waving your dicks around and go mod something.

I am very confused as to your statement. You seem to have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
1st point- Range is Pointless? Do you even have a basic grasp on the game of Nerf? Range (and by extension, dart speed) is one of the most essential parts of any gun. ROF can be very important, but at the end of the day, if one gun can shoot farther, and have the same or very similar ROF, the gun that can shoot farther is better.

Your other points are pretty accurate, other than the last thing you said. I don't know how many people are demanding SS2's and SM5k's. I think what people are really complaining about is the fact that the last couple guns are basically reshells of not particularly great guns. Its boring for the people who like to make big impressive mods.

I would like to say that people keep complaining about people who use high ranged guns and try to say this is a new problem. This is something that has been cemented for awhile, at least as long as every veteran or major person started using almost exclusively X-bows and +Bows. Even if they don't shoot excedingly far, they are a very good counter to most forms of rushing, shutting those people down, while allowing the far shooting types to be able to outrange them in standoffs. The game has clearly evolved to be more far shooting in the past few years and its everyones fault. If we had some people stick with longshots after they came out, we would have been much better off, but no one did, and I havent seen a longshot other than my friend matt's for awhile now.
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#24 Lion

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 11:14 AM


1st point- Range is Pointless? Do you even have a basic grasp on the game of Nerf? Range (and by extension, dart speed) is one of the most essential parts of any gun. ROF can be very important, but at the end of the day, if one gun can shoot farther, and have the same or very similar ROF, the gun that can shoot farther is better.



Range is pretty pointless in INDOOR wars as he said, as long as you can shoot the 35 feet stock range you should be ok.
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#25 k9turrent

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 12:11 PM



1st point- Range is Pointless? Do you even have a basic grasp on the game of Nerf? Range (and by extension, dart speed) is one of the most essential parts of any gun. ROF can be very important, but at the end of the day, if one gun can shoot farther, and have the same or very similar ROF, the gun that can shoot farther is better.



Range is pretty pointless in INDOOR wars as he said, as long as you can shoot the 35 feet stock range you should be ok.


True but as the range of the gun increases, so does the muzzle velocity. Thus meaning it gives the defender less time to dodge/avoid the shot. So range is important in an indoor war
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QUOTE View Post

That's about it. And thanks Angela who helped me with these pictures.. It looks huge in her hands.


HOLY CRAP!

FU ALL


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