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Semi-automatic Valve

*VERSION 3* Christmas Update

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#1 cheesypiza001

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 09:33 PM

Updated 12.24.09. Scroll down to the bottom for additional pictures and info.

Version 3 VIDEO
^^ Click ^^


This is pretty much just version two but inside a Firefly shell and hooked up with the actual trigger.

Posted Image


1. As the trigger is pulled approximately 1/2 way back, the valve shuts off the connection between the bladder and the tank.

2. The trigger pulls the tank valve open as it nears the end of its pull stroke.

3. As it is released, the trigger proceeds to close the tank valve, then the semi-auto valve, ensuring that no air is lost in the process.


This system is effecient for two main reasons.

1. It takes less time (however small) to complete the cycle than with a push-button valve and allows for a "true" semi-auto system.

2. It is much more effecient in terms of air conservation than having no valve at all and just simply pulling the trigger quickly.


The only glitch in this setup is the large amount friciton in the valve, resulting in a need for much spring force to push the valve rod back into its default positition. This makes it slightly difficult to pull the trigger, however this problem does not escalate as I pump it more, unlike the problem in V.1.

This is my current valve design:

(Wait for it to completely load. It's an animation.)


Posted Image


This is what prompted Version 2, a major improvement from my last design:

The way your "anti trigger" valve is set up, to press it you are directly fighting the air pressure. If you give up the back inlet and use the top as the inlet, you could have a longer metal rod through the middle, with another o-ring that stays on the far side of the inlet. Leave the hole in the back end open. Then it will be balanced.



This is the setup when it's not in any shell (V.2):

Posted Image

This configuration utilizes a Magstrike bladder, a Titan pump, and an AT3K tank.


I cut the bladder supports off of the Magstrike shell...

Posted Image


With 15 pumps, I can get off roughly 8 shots that are each extremely powerful. Only after about 8 shots do they start to get noticeably less powerful. In addition, there is absolutely no pressure build up exerted from the bladder into the trigger (unlike my previous design).



Version 3 VIDEO



Here is a link to the original topic I made concerning the Semi-Auto valve.


Please feel free to post with any questions, comments, or suggestions. Thanks.

Edited by cheesypiza001, 25 December 2009 - 10:02 AM.

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#2 Banshee

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 10:05 PM

Fantastic. I can't wait to see a functional gun. What kind of barrel design do you plan to go with because that semi auto ability needs to be put to good use? An inline or RSCB may work, but I don't know. Great work, very revolutionary.
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#3 cheesypiza001

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 10:12 PM

Fantastic. I can't wait to see a functional gun. What kind of barrel design do you plan to go with because that semi auto ability needs to be put to good use? An inline or RSCB may work, but I don't know. Great work, very revolutionary.


Thanks. As I stated in the above text, I plan to integrate the system into my Firefly (complete with a firefly turret and hopefully rear loading) once I get more PETG. Due to the fireflies auto-rotate barrels, it will be a "true" semi-auto blaster once I get the new system in.
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#4 Banshee

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 10:19 PM

Fantastic. I can't wait to see a functional gun. What kind of barrel design do you plan to go with because that semi auto ability needs to be put to good use? An inline or RSCB may work, but I don't know. Great work, very revolutionary.


Thanks. As I stated in the above text, I plan to integrate the system into my Firefly (complete with a firefly turret and hopefully rear loading) once I get more PETG. Due to the fireflies auto-rotate barrels, it will be a "true" semi-auto blaster once I get the new system in.

Crap... leave it to me to actually read things. I'm that guy that looks at the pictures in books and then moves on. Haha, but will you be able to have it so all you do is pump and pull the trigger? From your video it looked like you had to have a 2 step priming.
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#5 cheesypiza001

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 10:27 PM

Fantastic. I can't wait to see a functional gun. What kind of barrel design do you plan to go with because that semi auto ability needs to be put to good use? An inline or RSCB may work, but I don't know. Great work, very revolutionary.


Thanks. As I stated in the above text, I plan to integrate the system into my Firefly (complete with a firefly turret and hopefully rear loading) once I get more PETG. Due to the fireflies auto-rotate barrels, it will be a "true" semi-auto blaster once I get the new system in.

Crap... leave it to me to actually read things. I'm that guy that looks at the pictures in books and then moves on. Haha, but will you be able to have it so all you do is pump and pull the trigger? From your video it looked like you had to have a 2 step priming.


All you will have to do, as you said, is pump (15 times) then pull the trigger (8 times consecutively without reloading or repumping anything). The "2 step priming" as you described it, will follow the action of the trigger. For more information on this, please read the second paragraph after the last picture. Thanks.

Edited by cheesypiza001, 16 December 2009 - 10:28 PM.

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#6 JATDO

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 11:17 PM

Wow, 8 powerful shots. 8 barrel turret. Fate is on your side. :P
this is very cool, Last time I saw it I kinda wanted to touch it, but I thought it was going to explode if I did.
Kind of like the light you smashed...

That moving pic scared the fuck out of me, I thought I was going crazy!
It is moving right?
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#7 ggk

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 11:32 PM

Great idea. I really do like it, but I do have a concern. My concern is with how long the trigger stroke is compared to the allowable range of motion of the valve before it leaks. I know you said you measured it. But it really looks like it may leak. I may be wrong though.

I look forward to it being together in a shell.

Edited by ggk, 16 December 2009 - 11:34 PM.

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#8 cheesypiza001

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 11:33 PM

Wow, 8 powerful shots. 8 barrel turret. Fate is on your side. :P
this is very cool, Last time I saw it I kinda wanted to touch it, but I thought it was going to explode if I did.
Kind of like the light you smashed...

That moving pic scared the fuck out of me, I thought I was going crazy!
It is moving right?


Lol. Yeah, it's moving.
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#9 cheesypiza001

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 11:40 PM

Great idea. I really do like it, but I do have a concern. My concern is with how long the trigger stroke is compared to the allowable range of motion of the valve before it leaks. I know you said you measured it. But it really looks like it may leak. I may be wrong though.

I look forward to it being together in a shell.


It's interesting that you bring this up. I was also concerned for the same reason, so I decided to buy brass tubing so I could keep the inside extremely smooth and have as long a tube as was needed. However, I just checked and it works fine. There is about 1 millimeter of extra room.

In addition, I am currently gluing the whole setup inside another Firefly shell I have lying around. I temporarily couplered the 3K tank and plan to hook up an RSCB clip to it just to make sure it functions as desired. Though, because this is not the final design, and because I am really anxious to get this finished, the current configuration (that I am installing in the Firefly shell) is very crude and includes copious amounts of hot glue.

Edited by cheesypiza001, 16 December 2009 - 11:40 PM.

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#10 Draconis

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 12:31 PM

Nice job, Cheesy! But I won't be REALLY impressed until you scale it up to shoot balls. :P
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#11 cheesypiza001

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 03:32 PM

Nice job, Cheesy! But I won't be REALLY impressed until you scale it up to shoot balls. :)


I think I'll leave that one to you. ;)
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#12 durka durka

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 04:51 PM

With this design you're still using the housing and o-rings of the hornet trigger system, correct?

I would love to do this, but I have everything except for the trigger system (just my luck).
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#13 cheesypiza001

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 05:06 PM

With this design you're still using the housing and o-rings of the hornet trigger system, correct?

I would love to do this, but I have everything except for the trigger system (just my luck).


Yes. However, I did reconstruct the rod on which the O-rings go.

I am currently designing a valve that uses just brass, O-rings, washers, and barbed fittings (Though I may not follow through with it depending on the amount of projects I have). This next design won't require a Hornet trigger at all.
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#14 cheesypiza001

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Posted 25 December 2009 - 12:05 AM

UPDATE:

Version 3 VIDEO
^^ Click ^^


Posted Image

You may be wondering how the trigger works if it needs to close the connection between the bladder and the tank prior to opening the AT3K air chamber.

Well, I had to do a few modifications to the whole setup in order for this to work. Here's what I did.


1. Cut small brass strips and glue them on each side of the trigger area (where the catch release was)

Posted Image

Posted Image

2. Bend and cut the pin on the AT3K tank so that it will pull once the trigger has caught on.

Posted Image

Edited by cheesypiza001, 25 December 2009 - 10:01 AM.

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#15 Collective

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Posted 25 December 2009 - 12:31 AM

From now on, Christmas for me will no longer mark the birth of Jesus, but the day I first laid eyes upon this miracle.

[/hyperbole]

This is really freakin' cool! How are you going to accommodate the bladder inside the Firefly shell? Or will it just be an external kind of thing? I CANNOT wait to see this thing in its final form!

Edited by Collective, 25 December 2009 - 12:32 AM.

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#16 cheesypiza001

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Posted 25 December 2009 - 12:35 AM

From now on, Christmas for me will no longer mark the birth of Jesus, but the day I first laid eyes upon this miracle.

[/hyperbole]

This is really freakin' cool! How are you going to accommodate the bladder inside the Firefly shell? Or will it just be an external kind of thing? I CANNOT wait to see this thing in its final form!


Hah, thanks. As for the position of the bladder, you will just have to wait and see (AKA: I'm not 100% sure yet).
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#17 HuntedWumpus

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 11:41 PM

Well if this isn't the most impressive thing I've seen.. like ever.

I do really love when people use spare parts to do awesome things instead of just slightly repair broken guns.

I know it doesn't mean much from a noob-sickle like misself, however: bravo.

Additionally is there a part list you could *attempt* to provide us with? I mean, clearly chunks of certain guns are used, but the brass fittings etc are not immediately measurable via your post. HOWEVER- your post is amazing and everyone should learn to create gifs/use gifs in an appropriate fashion when demonstrating mechanics.

A++++++++++++++++++++++++
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#18 lazer371

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 04:26 PM

I have been in the process of doing this with a mag strike bladder/internals because I have limited resources and no money in my pay pal, I had originally planned to make the pumping action of the magsrtike's air shooting mechanism(sorry I honestly cant think of the name right now) revolve the barrels but that soon failed, and I have it all secured down and such, I just can't get a good seal but when I held the barrels back to actually create a seal I was usually hitting around mid 70's on flat shots with stream lines and upper 70's to mid 80's with stefans. If that indicates ranges at all, but you're using an at2k so you should hit much better ranges Ill try to edit this later and post a pic of my hunk of junk.


Oh my god sorry i didn't realize this was over 2 days old. never mind

Edited by lazer371, 19 January 2010 - 04:27 PM.

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#19 cheesypiza001

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 06:00 PM

I have been in the process of doing this with a mag strike bladder/internals because I have limited resources and no money in my pay pal, I had originally planned to make the pumping action of the magsrtike's air shooting mechanism(sorry I honestly cant think of the name right now) revolve the barrels but that soon failed, and I have it all secured down and such, I just can't get a good seal but when I held the barrels back to actually create a seal I was usually hitting around mid 70's on flat shots with stream lines and upper 70's to mid 80's with stefans. If that indicates ranges at all, but you're using an at2k so you should hit much better ranges Ill try to edit this later and post a pic of my hunk of junk.


Oh my god sorry i didn't realize this was over 2 days old. never mind


Are you talking about something like this?
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#20 lazer371

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 08:10 PM

Yes - to tell u the truth the day the firefly came out I thought of this, when I saw it then looked at a magstrike, but I wasn't able to make it for a while, yes mine works on the same principals but my version was far less complicated.
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I aint plannen' on unlearnin' no grammer.
(makes you think....)

They say, "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." What?!?!?!?!
I say, "Screw that! Give me a bigger gun!"

#21 mcwario13

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 02:38 PM

could you do this with an at3k
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