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Recon shooting 10 feet? WTF?

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#1 Whisper101

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 07:40 PM

Hey all,

I modded my recon... Only to find that it now shoots all of 10-20 ft! WORSE than stock! I'm not sure what I did wrong. I removed the ARs, did a pen mod, padded the plunger head (male end), removed all locks, AND made a power stock. Still, only about 10-20 ft. I've seen people post some nice ranges for a recon (in the 60s and occasionally the 70s) and i just cannot figure out how! the AR was drilled out with a 1/2" drill bit if it is any help...

PICS:

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Internals

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female plunger component with about a 1/4" of duct tape to compress spring more

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end of the male plunger component: white circle is the pen barrel, dead space is not filled-it's sealed with hot glue

Posted Image
Power stock: has a NF spring in it- I tried an ACE #49 but that wouldn't compress.
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#2 puky

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 08:19 PM

My guess is there's an air leak somewhere..
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#3 Whisper101

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 08:29 PM

My guess is there's an air leak somewhere..


I though that that might be the case but i cannot figure out where! I plugged the random hole in the bolt... Where else could air leak out of? Would a barrel replacement sucha s the one dead dumpster did with PETG ( I would use a crayola) be advisable?
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#4 BritNerfMogul

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 08:44 PM

What's the ring of yellow on the Breech?
And it's the plunger tube lubed completely?
Usually that should help
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#5 puky

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 08:44 PM

My guess is there's an air leak somewhere..


I though that that might be the case but i cannot figure out where! I plugged the random hole in the bolt... Where else could air leak out of?



The plunger head I'd think, it looks kind of fuzzy in the picture you posted. That might just be because of the focus of the camera, but it looks almost felt-esque to me, which would cause huge air leakage. can we get a couple shots of your plunger setup?
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#6 wingd man

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 09:00 PM

Air travel. The pen mod hole needs to be widened, as it actually hurts ranges.
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#7 Dude13

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 09:59 PM

Put E-tape under the O-ring, the stock seal is terrible. When you add an extra spring (as you did with the powerstock) the plunger tube moves foreward faster and the O-ring, without additional E-tape, does not seal properly.

This goes for any spring gun with a spring addition.
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#8 Whisper101

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 10:16 PM

Brit- that's some foam I put on the male end of the plunger to soften the impact of the two banging together.

Wing'd man- why would it need to be WIDENED? It seems to me that with the pen mod, the air would be more concentrated on the dart, hence a stronger airflow, and more range...

Dude13- the oring actually broke. When I tried to etape it, even without the oring, it got abotu 5 ft in range. This is because the seal was actually TOO tight. I'm looking for a scenario where I can use the gun BOTH as a pistol and as a rifle (w/and w/o stock) so i'd like to make the gun work both ways. However, IF I must make the gun solely a rifle w/a power stock, what spring would you recommend to go in the stock?

I'm still sort of in shock. have there any been a reports of recons that, even after modifications, SUCK EVEN WORSE? I'd REEEAAALY like to fix this up as I do really need a new passable secondary...
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#9 Poseidon

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 10:37 PM

Dude13- the oring actually broke.


Well there's your problem. At least in my experience, using other materials to mimic o-rings fails miserably.

Also, there is no real "rifle vs. pistol" debate with the recon. The main purpose of a stock is to steady your blaster allowing you to aim better or to simply add comfort. Regarding the former, the Recon will never get the ranges needed to require any sort of this "sharpshooting". It's ranges tend to not be much higher then that of a Mav and when was the last time you saw someone with a stock on one of those? In short, there's absolutely no functionality purpose to the Recon stock except for putting a spring in it which only increases its range by minimal amounts anyway. Just use the stock if it feels comfy to you.
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#10 Whisper101

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 10:47 PM

Dude13- the oring actually broke.


Well there's your problem. At least in my experience, using other materials to mimic o-rings fails miserably.

Also, there is no real "rifle vs. pistol" debate with the recon. The main purpose of a stock is to steady your blaster allowing you to aim better or to simply add comfort. Regarding the former, the Recon will never get the ranges needed to require any sort of this "sharpshooting". It's ranges tend to not be much higher then that of a Mav and when was the last time you saw someone with a stock on one of those? In short, there's absolutely no functionality purpose to the Recon stock except for putting a spring in it which only increases its range by minimal amounts anyway. Just use the stock if it feels comfy to you.


So basically what you're saying is that I'm screwed?

Are you telling me to get a new o ring? I had a recon a while ago and with JUST the ARs removed it got at LEAST 40-45 and I would guess it would used to hit 50 on average. i'm really not quite sure what you're telling me here. It looks like I'll need to get a new o ring, but you're also saying that the power stock really will not increase ranges at all/by a significant amt.?

To sum up, even before to o ring broke it was getting lousy ranges. Just a bit less lousy thatn they are now. Somehow though, I don't hink that simply slipping a new o ring on there is going to fix all my problems...
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#11 Poseidon

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 10:54 PM

So basically what you're saying is that I'm screwed?

Are you telling me to get a new o ring?

I don't hink that simply slipping a new o ring on there is going to fix all my problems...


Nope.

Yep.

It should.

I don't believe finding a replacement o-ring would be that difficult. At Lowe's, they have a good 10-15 different o-ring sizes that come in 3-6 dollar packages of 10 or so rings. I make no guarantees, but I imagine they'd have the correct size there. I got a replacement for a NF and a SF so they must be standard sizes.

Perhaps someone could correct me, but I'm pretty darn sure that plunger head is your problem with not having an o-ring. Hope it helps.
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#12 bennorco

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 11:55 PM

With my Gun i only removed the air restrictor and did a spring upgrade and it gets close to 40 feet. you mostlikly have an air leak.
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#13 fallinouttadabox

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 12:19 AM

Wing'd man- why would it need to be WIDENED? It seems to me that with the pen mod, the air would be more concentrated on the dart, hence a stronger airflow, and more range...


It might need widened because there could be too much concentration on the dart. If your hole is too small, you need more pressure, and your springs don't have the pressure to push it through that small hole. If it's just hot glued, take a knife and cut around the edge to remove it completely then test fire the gun. If it shoots farther, that's your problem, if not, you just heat up that outer edge of hot glue and stick it back in.
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#14 Carbon

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 12:47 AM

Wing'd man- why would it need to be WIDENED? It seems to me that with the pen mod, the air would be more concentrated on the dart, hence a stronger airflow, and more range...


It might need widened because there could be too much concentration on the dart. If your hole is too small, you need more pressure, and your springs don't have the pressure to push it through that small hole.

Springers work because of an increase in pressure (not because of blowing on the base of the dart). Best results are when this pressure is built up quickly. To build up pressure, you need to move as much air as you can, as quickly as possible. Small holes do not let a lot if air move quickly. Therefore, you want the airflow aperture from the plunger to the barrel to be as large as possible.

The pen mod constricts airflow. The smaller hole increases air speed, but actually reduces pressure (paging Dr Bernoulli...). Wing'd man is quite correct that you'd need more pressure from the plunger with a smaller hole...but really, it's easier to just make the hole bigger.

Anyway, why is this in Homemades?

Edited by Carbon, 22 November 2009 - 12:50 AM.

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#15 xbox180

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 05:22 AM

Have you plugged the hole in the breech, Some air loss may come out from there...
Couldn't tell from the photos.
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#16 Whisper101

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 07:17 AM

Poseidon- even before the oring broke it got bas ranges

Bob-interesting...

Bennorco- i did the same with a previous recon and got the same results that you did.

Fallinottadabox- so shoud I do nothing to the place where I put the pen in? Should i just remove the pen or do something else?

Carbon- i have NO idea why this is in homemades. i am almost 100% positive that I put it in mods...

Xbox-yep, I plugged it.
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#17 wingd man

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 09:01 AM

Springers work because of an increase in pressure (not because of blowing on the base of the dart). Best results are when this pressure is built up quickly. To build up pressure, you need to move as much air as you can, as quickly as possible. Small holes do not let a lot if air move quickly. Therefore, you want the airflow aperture from the plunger to the barrel to be as large as possible.

The pen mod constricts airflow. The smaller hole increases air speed, but actually reduces pressure (paging Dr Bernoulli...). Wing'd man is quite correct that you'd need more pressure from the plunger with a smaller hole...but really, it's easier to just make the hole bigger.

Exactly. Tantum Bull stated in his raider mod that the stock airflow range is more than the range with the pen mod. However, if you widen the hole with a drill, you should be able to get a good balance between airflow and dead space.

EDIT: linkage!

Edited by wing'd man, 22 November 2009 - 09:04 AM.

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#18 Whisper101

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 11:33 AM

Springers work because of an increase in pressure (not because of blowing on the base of the dart). Best results are when this pressure is built up quickly. To build up pressure, you need to move as much air as you can, as quickly as possible. Small holes do not let a lot if air move quickly. Therefore, you want the airflow aperture from the plunger to the barrel to be as large as possible.

The pen mod constricts airflow. The smaller hole increases air speed, but actually reduces pressure (paging Dr Bernoulli...). Wing'd man is quite correct that you'd need more pressure from the plunger with a smaller hole...but really, it's easier to just make the hole bigger.

Exactly. Tantum Bull stated in his raider mod that the stock airflow range is more than the range with the pen mod. However, if you widen the hole with a drill, you should be able to get a good balance between airflow and dead space.

EDIT: linkage!


So i can KEEP the pen barrel and just drill it out a little?
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#19 ilzot

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 11:54 AM

Not to sure if you're comprehending what everyone is saying.

YOU NEED TO REMOVE THE PEN MOD.

It's hurting your ranges very badly. Don't drill it out or try to work around it.

Rip the damn thing right out and you should be good to go.
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QUOTE(Vinnie D. @ Feb 1 2010, 05:28 AM) View Post

... to be able to get a better burst or sustained fire, rather than blowing the whole load at once.


#20 Whisper101

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 12:27 PM

Not to sure if you're comprehending what everyone is saying.

YOU NEED TO REMOVE THE PEN MOD.

It's hurting your ranges very badly. Don't drill it out or try to work around it.

Rip the damn thing right out and you should be good to go.



Just did that. I plan to get a replacement o ring asap.
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#21 Poseidon

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 01:06 PM

Not to sure if you're comprehending what everyone is saying.

YOU NEED TO REMOVE THE PEN MOD.

It's hurting your ranges very badly. Don't drill it out or try to work around it.

Rip the damn thing right out and you should be good to go.



Just did that. I plan to get a replacement o ring asap.


Well then you're all set. But really, don't expect much above 40. As it's been stated a thousands times, Recons suck.
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#22 Whisper101

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 03:27 PM

poseidon-Does that mean that all of the people in the directory who posted ranges of upwards of 60 ft. lie?
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#23 Poseidon

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 03:34 PM

poseidon-Does that mean that all of the people in the directory who posted ranges of upwards of 60 ft. lie?


We prefer the term "over embellish".

Sorry, but I highly doubt a Recon will ever get over a 60.
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#24 BritNerfMogul

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 04:16 PM

I think anything over 45ft either won't last long, or is bullshit.

I took the ar's out of mine, and it hits about 40ft max. Fine by me.
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#25 Whisper101

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 06:37 AM

I think anything over 45ft either won't last long, or is bullshit.

I took the ar's out of mine, and it hits about 40ft max. Fine by me.


Yeah, I just removed the pen mod and slapped a new or ing on and it gets around 40...Do you think the power stock I'm making will help at all?
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