5 replies to this topic

[aardman]

From a friend of mine at OZ Nerf.

Hey guys, none of you would know me, as I only post over at Oznerf (Australian Nerf Forums) and some of you may know it's very difficult to get any materials to mod our guns with so my goal has been to either import them or create our own products. At the moment we have managed to get a hold of a rather large amount of PETG, hot glue, brass but we have no decent foam supplier except for the stuff I imported from America which is running out but still isn't the ideal foam. So I have decided to create a foam which is completely customized to be the "perfect foam" and the perfect weight / tip for darts. I have put in a fair bit of research already but would like everyone's input because I know there are far more knowledgeable people out there. Below is an extract of how the job is going so far.

For the original post please visit, http://oznerf.forumo...quests-t639.htm

Ok the foam job seems to be going along quiet well, but there are a couple of things needed to be resolved first before the order is placed, this is so we can get a product which everyone is going to want to use and that will work exactly to our need. Please don't post crap in this thread and only contribute something which is going to help resolve these issues and justify your answers with good reasoning etc. If my solution isn't a complete fix to this then post a suitable alternative or change.

The first things are:

1. Foam Density

How dense should this foam actually be?

- At the moment all FBR seems to be to soft, and squashes easily and doesn't return to it's original shape.
- Buzzbee Darts are to heavy and the foam is far to dense and thick, it also fails to fit in any barrel material well especially stock Nerf guns.
- Nerf Darts (Foam only) have a good density but yet stil seem to lose their shape to easily, perhaps a density slightly harder but not to much harder would solve this problem.

Solution:

The ideal foam would be slightly more dense than current Nerf brand foam.

2. Dimensions

- The current problem with FBR is that it constantly changes between batches and there's no way of having a standard barrel material during a war, because one person uses brass, one uses PETG, one uses crayola barrels etc.

Solution: (Work In Progress)

- I have noticed in PETG nerf brand darts fit like a dream and they fit into stock guns nicely as well. I don't have Brass so I need someone to determine if stock darts if brass has the same fit as stock barrels and PETG.

- PVC & CPVC

CPVC ID changes all to much from brand to brand so I'm going to abandon it purely for the fact there are better materials. PVC is popular in use in home mades and is often used as a barrel material. But the product Dimensions vary from AU to the US and perhaps other countries and really lets face it for barrels and you simply nest a piece of PETG in them to get a good fit with nerf branded darts.

3. Colour

The supplier is giving me a Minimum Order Quantity of 10,000 Metres PER COLOUR. This is due to the fact that during the manufacturing process there's a lot of waste on orders less than this. So we need to choose a color, for good reason not just because you like it. At the moment we have Bright Orange in branded Nerf dart's, Black/Grey/White if you use FBR, and yellow in BuzzBee. I'm leaning towards BLUE because it's a color no one has and it will help me sell it because I will have an awful lot of foam sitting around my house and because in the area's most people play in there's not a lot of blue coloured objects so they are harder to lose. The only reason I didn't choose red is because you can get RED FBR which is a bit to soft but is cheaper and most people take the cheap option.

Solution: Not really a technical problem but a cosmetic issue.

4. Cost of the end product.

Now the main reason we make our own darts is simply because it's so much cheaper and you get so many more darts and without darts we can't exactly shoot anyone and there's nothing worse than getting frustrated about not having enough darts to fully load a gun which eventually turns you off playing.

Solution - More darts at a cheaper price! Now the question I ask is how much would you pay per metre for a foam which solves all these problems? I'm not here to profit I'm hoping that with a good foam and everyone being able to afford some more bullets we can expand the sport and make it more popular, but I'm not a charity and I can't exactly run around all day posting orders and spending petrol in the process. On my black foam I get 20 cents a metre to myself, which is very little considering I have to post and spend money going between home and a post office and this is my own personal time. So don't bitch because you won't get it at cost price, but there will be no more than 20 cents on top of the cost price on each metre as the goal isn't profit but to make Nerf expand in the end. Overall I aim to produce them at least 40% cheaper than Nerf Darts.

5. Weight & Tips

The next product is the tips (Weights) on the bullets, I have sent the supplier a sample of a Streamline dart without the useless stick on the end to see how much it will cost to produce the same thing heavier to eliminate Fishtailing etc. I don't know a lot about physics so I need someone to come up something which will work in all guns (Including clip loaded guns as this is the way a lot of newer Nerf guns are going). The important thing here is the weight and what is the best weight to use to generate the most range across the board. So if you think you can come up with something post it and diagram is if possible and provide evidence as to why it's better in the end.

The supplier hasn't come up with a price yet because I haven't responded to the final density, colour and payment yet. So I'm going to post this up to get everyone's opinion and input before I place the order, when everything has been settled I can get a final price. Remember colour, density, weight, quantity, Having the tube in the bullets (so it can be used with guns with AR's) all effect the cost of the final product.



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Testing & Experimental Data. (I have sacrificed a fair few of my stock darts for this, rest in peace they shall)

Weights of Foam

Stock Nerf Foam = 0.25 Grams
Black 1/2" FBR Softer Density (Mile High) = 0.14 Grams

Below are the tips without the foam

Stock Nerf Streamline Tip WITH Middle Stick = 1.09 Grams
Whistler Dart Tips = 1.25 Grams
Orange Nerf Suction Cup = 1.50 Grams
Stock Streamline Tip WITHOUT middle stick = 0.48 Grams
Tagger Dart Tip = 1.12 Grams
Blue Suction Cap = 1.02 Grams

TABLE DATA OF ALL DART RANGES IN MOST SPRING LOADED GUNS WILL BE UP SHORTLY. The reason I'm using spring loaded only is because it's near impossible to pump an air based gun up with the same amount of air every time.

[Jpec07]

Perhaps I'm missing something, but would this foam be available to Nerfers outside of Australia? I mean shipping would be relatively cheap (it's foam), but I'm curious to know if it would even be possible...

[CA13]

They're trying to import or find a local supplier. We United States of Ameristan people are fine with our endless supply of FBR imports.

I'm sure that caulk-less seal loses usefulness in the arid climate of Australia. FBR is probably only for homes with mild summers and milder winters, but Australia's desert climate gives cold nights and hot days.

[Aj]

I'm sure that caulk-less seal loses usefulness in the arid climate of Australia. FBR is probably only for homes with mild summers and milder winters, but Australia's desert climate gives cold nights and hot days.

I sincerely hope you're joking in which case, lol..

If not... oh dear lord.....

Australia is not a desert. Nor are we starved for FBR, we just have a much lower number of nerfers and the majority are idiots who can't find said FBR (or any other modding materials for that matter.. they're all sold here you just need to find them..)

We are starved a little in the blaster category, but only really in the older things like the Air Tech lines and rapid fires..

The point of this foam, is not because we cant get FBR, it's to see if we can make something better than it. The guy doing this order is not ordering coloured FBR, it's from a completely different company that specialises in foam balls and toys. By doing this he hopes to have greater consistency within batches and between batches. I was pretty skeptical of the idea at first, now I'm just curious if he can pull it of.

Aj

[VelveetaAvenger]

FBR is probably only for homes with mild summers and milder winters, but Australia's desert climate gives cold nights and hot days.

You use FBR in addition to caulk, not instead of it. My understanding is that you stuff in fbr to fill a really big crack, then caulk over it. If it was only useful for mild winters they wouldn't be selling it in Minnesota, that's for sure.


Anyways, it's pretty cool that they're going to make custom dart tips for you. I would just rip the hot glue and weights off a few of your darts that work well and weigh them on a small scale. If you're still in school your science lab should have something accurate enough. If they're making the foam considerably denser you might need something heavier for the correct balance though. You should ask if the supplier can provide a few samples with different tip weights you can test.

I just read in that other thread that you did weigh the tips out. It's still going to be tough to tell since the foam will be more dense, and for such a large order they should be willing to give you 5 or 10 test darts before they put the weights on so that you can know for sure.

Edited by VelveetaAvenger, 13 November 2009 - 02:46 PM.

[Samzilla]

I think you should choose a color of foam that is easy to spot when collecting darts. Red works well as it contrasts with green grass.