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Converting A Bbb In An Air-chamber "bow"

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#1 Judging Eagle

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 10:38 AM

I've got a BBB that I need to convert into looking like a "bow"; the main reason is one of cosmetics, the other is one of change in function.

The basic idea is that I want to use Zorn Lemma's BBB Overhaul idea.

Except that I want to make the bow more like the old Nerf Bow, in removing the handles; and building a handle on the plunger.

Things that I want to do to this BBB (some straight from from Zorn's Thread)

-I'm removing the back half, so I won't need reinforced parts in the back half; I filled mine with green stuff (a games workshop epoxy putty, it's green and blue... I actually don't know if it's safe compared to expoxy putty. D: Does anyone here know any better? The stuff becomes very hard, and is normally used to fill gaps in metal models; or help bond metal models)

-I'm going for the Method 2 Plunger Head; a series of metal and neoprene washers

-I want a more resilient plunger shaft; so I'm thinking of building the above Plunger Head on a length of threaded rod. (good idea? bad idea?)

-Build a handle to draw back the plunger

-Place a washer at the base of the plunger tube to reinforce the plunger tube

Hopefully, I'll be able to get some threaded rod that's a good length.

Posted Image
click for larger image

Is the bulk of the original interals that I'll probably keep. If I have my way; I'll replace the plunger tube with a threaded pipe, and a screw-on cap that is epoxied or glued to keep it in place. I'm not sure this is possible.

Of course, I'm thinking about replacing the spring; but I might keep it b/c of lower draw weight, and saftey concerns; a real "Bow" cannont have greater than a 20 lb pull when using modified normal arrows for what I'll be using it for. So getting a 100' range isn't necessarily good.

Accuracy is really what I want. Not retarded power/range.

I've got a feeling that I might "over" build some parts if I use a metal tube for the plunger tube, but whatever, the "bow" will last that much longer.

.... actually, now that I think about it, some of the black ABS piping could be used to make a plunger assembly, maybe replace the front piece with an ABS to PVC coupling, and see if I can get something that fits the inner diameter of the ammo type that I'm planning on using (Fome's "Arrows" made from grey pipe insulation specifically)

Anyway, the "remaining" parts that I want to have left will be pretty much this:

Posted Image
click for larger image

The plunger rod is just there because I didn't remove it. In hindsight, the reinforcing of the plunger rod is unnessecary, but w/e.

I'm planning on doing mostly cosmetic work after that. Hopefully it turns out well. I find that it's just a matter of planning and patience when it comes to building purely cosmetic things though, so I'm not too worried.

Edit: for some reason, I can't nest URL (link) and IMG (image) BBcode; Url BBcode around Img BBcode gives me text with a link, and Img around Url seems to do the same. Also, resizing images to make them smaller isn't implemented on these boards. D: Ah well, I'll just post the full images.

Edited by Judging Eagle, 28 July 2009 - 10:50 AM.

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#2 Zorns Lemma

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 11:36 AM

If I understand you correctly, you're trying to turn the BBB into a pull and release gun? Why not just buy an urukhai bow or bow'n'arrow?
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#3 white moonlight

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 11:53 AM

If I understand you correctly, you're trying to turn the BBB into a pull and release gun? Why not just buy an urukhai bow or bow'n'arrow?


That's what I thought too.

Why don't you just buy a Bn'A?

Edited by white moonlight, 02 August 2009 - 10:38 AM.

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#4 Judging Eagle

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 12:38 PM

None are sold anywhere remotely where I am, and I've never seen one until I started looking up modding Nerf launchers online.

A straight B'nA would be perfect, but I never seem them, so whatever.

The Uruk'Hai bow I haven't ever seen either.

I guess this is a matter of "making due with what I've got."
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#5 Bedhed117

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 02:17 PM

If you change it to a pull and release gun then you will lose range. Thats why people put triggers on their BnA's. You had said that you wanted more accuracy then crazy range but range does matter a lot. If you still want to do it though you should justy epoxy a handle (PVC tee joint or similar) onto the back of the catch. Simple and effective.
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#6 Blue

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 03:15 PM

If you change it to a pull and release gun then you will lose range. Thats why people put triggers on their BnA's. You had said that you wanted more accuracy then crazy range but range does matter a lot. If you still want to do it though you should justy epoxy a handle (PVC tee joint or similar) onto the back of the catch. Simple and effective.


Where have you seen a BNA with a trigger? And I don't understand why anyone would do this.... A trigger on a gun is much better, or even the rototrack, chainblazer, arrowstorm, style is okay. I can sell you a BNA if you want one.
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#7 Judging Eagle

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 10:45 PM

If you change it to a pull and release gun then you will lose range. Thats why people put triggers on their BnA's. You had said that you wanted more accuracy then crazy range but range does matter a lot. If you still want to do it though you should justy epoxy a handle (PVC tee joint or similar) onto the back of the catch. Simple and effective.


Yeah, that's one thing that I'm thinking about; how to build the handle.

I went to a local hardware/housewares store (Canadian Tire); and was really disappointed. I found some of the metal washers, and threaded rod no problem (3' lengths, at dirt cheap prices).

The problem was finding the washers that I wanted for the plunger head. I couldn't. They just didn't have the right size at all, which was really frustrating. They have an entire section of loose part bins that you take what you need and bag. But the assortment wasn't as wide a range of sizes as I had hoped, it was more a range of types of things. Copper, brass, plastic, three grades of steel; there were a few bins with small corks; eyelets, a few other things that weren't strictly washers, nuts, bolts and other fasteners.

I'm going to Home Depot on friday, they're more likely to have what I'm looking for, since they're a Big Box store, and are used for larger repair jobs, or home renovation jobs.


It's okay Blue, I doubt that it would be worth the hassle anyway. I'm also keen on this project anyway. I'm thinking that I can make the BBB able to be used to look like a crossbow, or a pull-release pneumatic bow.

The reason for this idea, is that I don't plan on cutting anything, such that it can't be used for it's original function. So, the original plunger rod, and trigger mechanism would remain in the rear section of the gun casing, and if I wanted, I would put the whole thing back together. Of course, there's really no point.

I think that in the end, I might stick with leaving the gun as a trigger-using gun. unless it is looked upon as a major cosmetic problem. Then I might go to the pull-release idea. As it is.... the trimmed down version would be a bit out of place, since people where I'm bringing this to actually use real 20 lb bows, and saftied arrows (a long process, involving, pennies, open cell foam, and duct tape) that often need to be replaced; I want my much less expensive, and hopefully more effective, weapon to be able to be allowed at these events.

Also... I was messing around with some of the 1 1/4" ABS tubing and connection pieces. The idea of building an ABS pipe chamber seems interesting. I however have no real clue about building air chambers, and need to read up to know if ABS bonded with the ABS piping ahesive is up to snuff for building an air chamber.

Edited by Judging Eagle, 28 July 2009 - 11:56 PM.

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#8 roboman

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Posted 29 July 2009 - 06:53 PM

Also... I was messing around with some of the 1 1/4" ABS tubing and connection pieces. The idea of building an ABS pipe chamber seems interesting. I however have no real clue about building air chambers, and need to read up to know if ABS bonded with the ABS piping adhesive is up to snuff for building an air chamber.


If, by "air chamber," you mean a vessel for containing large amounts of compressed air, DO NOT BUILD IT OUT OF ABS.

Most ABS is not pressure rated, so there's no way to know if the pipe will fail at 5 or 500 psi. If you do decide to go about build a LPA tank, there is absolutely NO substitute for pressure-rated pipe. Build it out of sch. 40 PVC, copper, or even galvanized iron. Those three materials will be your best options for a tank.

If you want to end up with several large pieces of ABS shrapnel in your side, be my guest. However, don't say I didn't warn you!
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#9 Wes7143

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Posted 29 July 2009 - 09:28 PM

So, wait, you're trying to make it release, instead of catch? Just take the tabs off the side (The ones with the springs). At the end of your pull, it won't catch, and you will still have to maintain pressure pulling it back. It still uses the trigger to release, though. No range drop, but it's just retarded to intentionally do it.
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#10 sublimedom777

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 08:59 AM

Eagle: I know I'm no authority, but I too have been using Green Stuff to much effectiveness. I've used it for everything from strengthening plunger rods like on VelociRapture to using it to stabilize my AT2.5K Turret. The only downside I see (because I have not actually worked with regular putty yet, but will soon) is the price tag. It's seriously double (or more) the price of other epoxy putty (and the green is a bitch).
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#11 Judging Eagle

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Posted 31 July 2009 - 05:50 PM

DO NOT BUILD IT OUT OF ABS.


Duly noted. I've been mostly looking at Spring guns here, so an air-tank isn't what I plan on building any time soon. It was sort of an idea that went through my head while looking at the abs pipe section while trying to find something that fit my gun.

Wes,

that's handy, I never thought of doing that.

Sublime,

Hmm. double the price you say... I should try to stop using it on this; but this stuff is ancient, I haven't done any GW stuff in a few years now.

Edited by Judging Eagle, 31 July 2009 - 06:12 PM.

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#12 aamiller321

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Posted 31 July 2009 - 05:57 PM

whatever....... but w/e



...... whatever.


It is impossible for apathy and productivity to coexist.


Where have you seen a BNA with a trigger? And I don't understand why anyone would do this.... A trigger on a gun is much better, or even the rototrack, chainblazer, arrowstorm, style is okay. I can sell you a BNA if you want one.

I believe the LGLF site had one...
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#13 Ubermensch

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Posted 31 July 2009 - 06:06 PM

I think you're referring to this.
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#14 aamiller321

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Posted 31 July 2009 - 10:10 PM

Indeed it is.
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#15 Fome

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Posted 01 August 2009 - 02:28 PM

I like the idea of this project, and I can see it turning out really well.

Ignore these idiots that question your motives of removing the "trigger". Nerf bows are remarkably fun to play with, especially using big ammo. I can see a lot of advantages that go with doing so, specifically if you remove the back portion of the BBB.
For example, you can build your own "air chamber" or extend the original one (we refer to it as a plunger tube). You can also use a much more powerful spring/bungees because there is no flimsy catch mechanism to worry about.

I'm assuming this is for some type of larp?

You might want to look into the many SNAP writeups on the homemades forum. It could give you a lot of insight into building your own plunger system.

Good luck!

I hope to see pictures of the finished product.

#16 roboman

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Posted 02 August 2009 - 10:27 AM

Ignore these idiots that question your motives of removing the "trigger".


I really don't think it is appropriate to call us "idiots," simply because we were voicing our opinions about his decision to remove the trigger. We were just wondering why he wabts to make a BBB into a pull and release gun. After all, a pull-and-release gun is inherently less accurate, and any increase in range will be more than made up for in a decline of accuracy. Unless he happens to be a really good archer, I'm afraid a BBB without a trigger will be less war-practical.
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#17 Jangadance

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 10:16 PM

I'm afraid a BBB without a trigger will be less war-practical.

Any of the MN nerfers who have been to a war with me would disagree, as Nervous Ninja was a nimble beast with my crudely effective modded BnA.

Posted Image

Good luck with the project, I think if you do it cleanly it could look fantastic!
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#18 Daniel Beaver

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 11:06 PM

I'm afraid a BBB without a trigger will be less war-practical.

Any of the MN nerfers who have been to a war with me would disagree, as Nervous Ninja was a nimble beast with my crudely effective modded BnA.

I've heard stories about that guy.

Yes, pull and release guns are hard to use in a war situation. My BnA is not very effective, but I keep using it on occasion because it's so damn fun.
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#19 Judging Eagle

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Posted 25 September 2009 - 05:30 PM

I decided to say "fuck it" to the Bow Idea; no matter what I can possibly try; it's never going to look like a bow.

It can, however, look like a crossbow. So.. that's what I did.

It's a BBB modified to not only look like a crossbow; but the cosmetic 'strings' (actual cords, not elastic in any way) actually go taut.

http://i247.photobuc...ff/GEDC0770.jpg
http://i247.photobuc...ff/GEDC0771.jpg
http://i247.photobuc...ff/GEDC0772.jpg

Right now, I'm more focused on accuracy over range. I can hit a 2-3" wide target at 25" which is enough for what I want, for now.

I'm going to be using it this weekend, and will then open it up again and will post internals. Most of the impacted structures of the BBB's internals have been given a reinforcement via Epoxy Putty. I used some Games Workshop "green stuff" early on, and there's a massive difference between the two products.

Some other things that I've done on this gun (that I will need to post internals of) include:

- remove the barrel air restrictors (easy-peasy)
- fit a crayola marker barrel into the orange barrel (took some snipping, sanding and filing)
- take the "circle" Front of Plunger air restrictor and :
--fill in the 3 side 'gaps' with Epoxy Putty
--drill and smooth a hole in the centre of the circle air restrictor

and some other things that I can't recall, I've been doing this mod over the last few weeks.
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#20 Lynx

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Posted 25 September 2009 - 05:50 PM

Cosmetics: Cut off the top sight and your good.

Internals/Actual Mods: Crayolas aren't recommended and you can kill more dead space.

When starting a project, its best to have a finished project clearly in mind or on paper. Then, before you make any cuts, make sure it will all fit. Finally, after it didn't work, hotglue that shit (epoxy putty is also acceptable).

Edited by Lynx, 25 September 2009 - 05:51 PM.

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#21 Judging Eagle

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Posted 25 September 2009 - 11:54 PM

Actually, the Top sight "works" As in. it actually works to help me aim my shots.

I taped in a needle in the rear sight; and a pair of pins that 'cross' in an upside down T; when I line the front and back on my target; I'll hit it at 20-25".

After that, I need to aim up about to the 'top' of the field of view that the sight is showing. In order to hit past 20 feet.

I'm going to do a lot more testing this weekend.

I haven't actually 'cut' anything that I wouldn't want to cut anyway. I think that I've cut.... the hole in the circular air restrictor; then bevelled and sanded, and filed it, so that it would allow smoother airflow. Aside from that, there is nothing that I have actually cut in this gun.

Most of the material is intact, and the only real mods have either been removal of things (air restrictors); sealing gaps (the white plastic air restrictor in the front of the plunger tube is now epoxy puttied to the base of the Crayola marker barrel. The ID of both is the same, making for nearly perfect removal of dead space and gaps between where the air fromthe plunger marches up the barrel to the dart.

Ideally, I'll fill in the rest of the front, so that the plunger fits in perfectly with the opening that leads to the barrel; removing the most deadspace possible.

The Plunger is still intact, I've simply covered the 'gaps' in the top that cause deadspace with a careful wrapping of E-tape. The Crayola barrel isn't ideal; but it allows me to make stock darts, since I can very easily lose grey stefans (I'm planning on making my next batch with white electrical tape around them; and phosphorescent paint onthe rear,and shaft of the stefan, to help me find them easier.

I'm using stock darts ( D: ) b/c they're very visible. Once I start mass producing Stefans that I feel comfortable about being able to find; then I'll use them. Ideally, my Stefans would be 2-3 inches, and white, or bright orange, but the FBR around here is all plain gray.

I haven't actually cut the barrel; and will refrain from doing so until I can figure out if I want to do in terms of barrel and ammo (home-made stefans; and then find some Brass that fits the bill; then CPVC and PVC tubing and accessories to increase tightness of fit.

Right now, load speed isn't a massive concern, but being able to load quickly is something that I want to be able to do, which is why switching to say... streamlines with hot glue to seal the front whistl-hole; with a breechloaded front-piece on this BBB is something that I am considering.
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