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Ram-rod Singled Vs. Breech Singled?


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#1 spartan062

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Posted 26 July 2009 - 09:45 PM

What are the pros/cons of each?
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#2 CROW

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Posted 26 July 2009 - 09:56 PM

Seriously man? Just think about it... Ramrodding takes a while, no? And a breech is fast, right?

Edited by CROW, 26 July 2009 - 09:57 PM.

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#3 LNL plus LS equals WIN

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Posted 26 July 2009 - 10:12 PM

Ram-rod might have better seal but it is much slower then a breech so it is a battle against ROF and seal. :)
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#4 spartan062

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Posted 26 July 2009 - 10:13 PM

CROW, I was thinking a little bit more. Because I heard of a guy a while ago that got a part of his finger cut off.

LNL + LS = win, with a good dart/barrel fit and a bit of practice, ram-rodding could be just as fast. Couldn't it?

Edited by spartan.062, 26 July 2009 - 10:15 PM.

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#5 BustaNinja

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Posted 26 July 2009 - 10:25 PM

CROW, I was thinking a little bit more. Because I heard of a guy a while ago that got a part of his finger cut off.

LNL + LS = win, with a good dart/barrel fit and a bit of practice, ram-rodding could be just as fast. Couldn't it?

A single barrel is always gonna be slower.. No matter how well you can practice, and get it down to a science, in an actual war, your speed will be about double that. Adrenaline will be pumping, you will be running, being shot at, and looking around. It will take you almost twice as long, simply because of the nature of Nerf.

Breeches are faster, because you don't have to stick another tool down your barrel after every shot.

A cheaper alternative is a speed loader. Its two barrels taped together.
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#6 spartan062

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Posted 26 July 2009 - 10:35 PM

1. A single barrel is always gonna be slower.. No matter how well you can practice, and get it down to a science, in an actual war, your speed will be about double that. Adrenaline will be pumping, you will be running, being shot at, and looking around. It will take you almost twice as long, simply because of the nature of Nerf.

2. Breeches are faster, because you don't have to stick another tool down your barrel after every shot.

3. A cheaper alternative is a speed loader. Its two barrels taped together.

1. That makes sense.

2. Your fingers are far more valueable though.

3. How does a "speed-loader" work with a singled gun?
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#7 wingd man

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Posted 26 July 2009 - 10:45 PM

1. A single barrel is always gonna be slower.. No matter how well you can practice, and get it down to a science, in an actual war, your speed will be about double that. Adrenaline will be pumping, you will be running, being shot at, and looking around. It will take you almost twice as long, simply because of the nature of Nerf.

2. Breeches are faster, because you don't have to stick another tool down your barrel after every shot.

3. A cheaper alternative is a speed loader. Its two barrels taped together.

1. That makes sense.

2. Your fingers are far more valueable though.

3. How does a "speed-loader" work with a singled gun?

That was a long shot which had the catch crap out, which made the bolt fly forward. If it's singled then, unless you use enormous amounts of force (enough to take out fingers) when pushing some metal tube, it's best to use a breech. (It's just the force you use to move it that will do damage, unless you try, you won't do anything harmful.) They also, if made correctly with brass (or PETG if you have the right sizes) don't leak.
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#8 diamondbacknf1626

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Posted 26 July 2009 - 10:45 PM

1. A single barrel is always gonna be slower.. No matter how well you can practice, and get it down to a science, in an actual war, your speed will be about double that. Adrenaline will be pumping, you will be running, being shot at, and looking around. It will take you almost twice as long, simply because of the nature of Nerf.

2. Breeches are faster, because you don't have to stick another tool down your barrel after every shot.

3. A cheaper alternative is a speed loader. Its two barrels taped together.

1. That makes sense.

2. Your fingers are far more valueable though.

3. How does a "speed-loader" work with a singled gun?


2. yes they are, but if you have a well constructed breech, chances are, unless you're just dumb, you're not going to cut your finger off. And no, that's not an insult to anyone who did that to themselves. Basically, what I mean is, if you're paying attention, you won't have that sort of problem.

3. You use a CPVC or PVC coupler on a blaster. Then you attach two barrels together, staggered, so that one extends past the other. Then, you load the darts in the extended sides, facing away, and flip it, loading either side into the coupler.

God that came out to be really confusing.

Edited by diamondbacknf1626, 26 July 2009 - 10:49 PM.

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#9 CoasterDynamix757

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Posted 26 July 2009 - 10:45 PM

Who chopped their finger off with a breech?

Breeches made with the intent to chamber darts don't harm people unless they use them incorrectly.
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#10 spartan062

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Posted 26 July 2009 - 10:50 PM

1. Who chopped their finger off with a breech?

2. Breeches made with the intent to chamber darts don't harm people unless they use them incorrectly.

1. I am searching. I know I saw it a while ago though.

2. The gun's catch can fail.
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#11 diamondbacknf1626

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Posted 26 July 2009 - 10:54 PM

1. Who chopped their finger off with a breech?

2. Breeches made with the intent to chamber darts don't harm people unless they use them incorrectly.

1. I am searching. I know I saw it a while ago though.

2. The gun's catch can fail.


So you're specifically talking about singled longshots. I cannot think of any other "breech"like system that puts your fingers in danger if the catch of the gun fails.
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#12 spartan062

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Posted 26 July 2009 - 10:57 PM

1. Who chopped their finger off with a breech?

2. Breeches made with the intent to chamber darts don't harm people unless they use them incorrectly.

1. I am searching. I know I saw it a while ago though.

2. The gun's catch can fail.


So you're specifically talking about singled longshots. I cannot think of any other "breech"like system that puts your fingers in danger if the catch of the gun fails.

I could probably find some others if I searched. Anyways, this was the topic.
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#13 TantumBull

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Posted 26 July 2009 - 11:58 PM

I cannot think of any other "breech"like system that puts your fingers in danger if the catch of the gun fails.

My PAS's. But that probably shouldn't count because it works so similarly to an LS.

I prefer breeches on higher powered guns for shotgunning. I use speed loaders on pistols because you get two quick shots rather than X slowish but steady shots.
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#14 spartan062

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 12:29 AM

1. My PAS's. But that probably shouldn't count because it works so similarly to an LS.

2. I use speed loaders on pistols because you get two quick shots rather than X slowish but steady shots.

1. It counts.

2. But a breech can look like a supressor.
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#15 Slayer of OnE

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 12:59 AM

1. sorry to be counter-productive, but you seem to have a pre-disposition againtst the breech. In many of your previous comments, you have over-analyzed the possibility of a finger being lost in a breech system. If you are going to include a breech system on your blaster (which on it's own is a complex mechanism). then you would've probably strengthened (sp?) the catch as well.

2. On a slightly different note, and looking at this topic from a different angle, there is one definite advantage that the singled system has over the breech besides a seal or safety.

Cost.

It costs a lot less for 1.5 feet of cpvc or brass than to purchase one 1.5' length of 17/32 brass and one segment of 9/16 brass to create a breech. If you are low on cash, a singled system will shovel you the same poower as a breech system, but not the ROF (as heavily descripted above). However, sometimes the poor ROF the singled assembly has is outweighed by the money saved.

In conclusion, If you have the cash and the supplies, go for the breech. And if you are worried about the safety, simply take the precaution of strengthening (sp?) the catch. However, If you haven't the cash or supplies, go for the singled system.

Hope I've helped in your decision. Unless, of course, you just wanted to start an "A v.s. B" topic, in which case, you suck.

Sincerely,


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#16 spartan062

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 01:58 AM

1. sorry to be counter-productive, but you seem to have a pre-disposition againtst the breech. In many of your previous comments, you have over-analyzed the possibility of a finger being lost in a breech system. If you are going to include a breech system on your blaster (which on it's own is a complex mechanism). then you would've probably strengthened the catch as well.

2. On a slightly different note, and looking at this topic from a different angle, there is one definite advantage that the singled system has over the breech besides a seal or safety.

Cost.

It costs a lot less for 1.5 feet of cpvc or brass than to purchase one 1.5' length of 17/32 brass and one segment of 9/16 brass to create a breech. If you are low on cash, a singled system will shovel you the same poower as a breech system, but not the ROF (as heavily descripted above). However, sometimes the poor ROF the singled assembly has is outweighed by the money saved.

3. Hope I've helped in your decision. Unless, of course, you just wanted to start an "A v.s. B" topic, in which case, you suck.

1. Well I am slightly biased towards singled since I have already singled my Ls.

2. I cannot even find brass to make a breech where I live.

3. I started this wondering if it would be worth it to switch from singled to breeched.

Edited by spartan.062, 27 July 2009 - 01:58 AM.

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#17 father time

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 06:20 AM

[/quote]
2. I cannot even find brass to make a breech where I live.


Go to any hobby shop that sells remote control planes and boats, they should have what you need.

Edited by father time, 27 July 2009 - 06:23 AM.

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#18 wingd man

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 07:34 AM

Yes, it is definitely worth it... or just go out and get some couplings, but ram rods are bad and unnecessary. I have had ONE ramrodded gun, and that was the first barrel replacement I ever did.
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#19 Chris is cool

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 07:41 AM

Woah, I never said I lost a finger. It broke skin and cut very deep, but I still have that finger.

As for breeches, you don't NEED brass. There are several PETG and CPVC breeches out there. Plus, with PETG you don't need a dremel to make the cut like on brass, but rather you can use a razor-blade.

#20 wingd man

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 08:58 AM

Woah, I never said I lost a finger. It broke skin and cut very deep, but I still have that finger.

As for breeches, you don't NEED brass. There are several PETG and CPVC breeches out there. Plus, with PETG you don't need a dremel to make the cut like on brass, but rather you can use a razor-blade.

Actually, at least in my experience, you need some very hard to get sizes of PETG or a very small amount of brass. CPVC breeches, in my opinion, are useless, as it's simpler to just use a coupling.
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#21 white moonlight

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 09:59 AM

If you're using a breeched gun you get:

PROS:
1. Quicker ROF

2. You don't have to carry around a ram-rod, (even though it's obviously not a major problem just figured I
throw that out there).

CONS:
1. Worse seal.

2. Slightly worse range.

If youre using a singled gun you get:

PROS:
1. Perfect seal (depending on which gun you use).

2. Slightly better range.

3. It's cheaper, (unless of course you use a brass singled barrel).

CONS:
1. Slow ROF

2. You have to carry around a ram rod, (even though it's obviously not a major problem just figured I'd throw that out there).

What gun do you plan on putting,

A: The breech on.
B: The singled barrel on.

Edited by white moonlight, 27 July 2009 - 09:59 AM.

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#22 Vengeful Waffle

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 10:29 AM

All right, listen up.

You're not gonna loose your fingers in the breech. That's only because said idiot put too many springs in his singled LS without re-enforcing the catch. Use your head, follow the write-up an you'll be fine. In the end, it all comes down to your playstyle. I don't know what is is, so I can't help you. If you prefer to stand still and never move, go ahead and use a ram-rod. Is you move at ALL, use a breech.
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#23 white moonlight

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 10:43 AM

You can also just use a speedloader for ALL playstyles.
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#24 Split

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 11:06 AM

I'm pretty disgusted personally at how biased/uninformed and repetitive the opinions in this thread are.
I have never seen anyone other than Vacc use a slide breech effectively, and even when he does, he doesn't shoot very often.
(Edit: I'm talking about with no integrations. With integrations, the rof of the main gun is significantly less important. Groove has a slide breech on the Guru Mk. III.)

The thing is, though a breech reduces reloading time (only over a non-couplered, singled blaster - and even then, not faster all the time*), it's still not the best option in the long run. Turrets and speedloaders are faster, and strategically better. Yes, it is better to be able to flip a barrel around for a second shot and reload two at a time than one at a time consistently; when you get rushed while reloading a breech, you'll know why.

When it comes to playing in an actual war, one accurate shot is almost exclusively favored over high rate of fire. That means, chances are, when you fire and go to reload, that "bonus" of using a slide breech will mean nothing.

Here's why: 1) Either you hit your target and/or squalled a rush. Now you have plenty of time to reload. 2) You missed your target and/or are getting rushed. Here, that bonus rof will not be enough to stop the rush. Again, speedloaders/rscbs/inline clips/turrets are better here.

And all of that is assuming no cons for the slide breech. In reality, they're far more prone to breaking than any other kind of barrel system, you have to move your hands around a lot - meaning it takes more experience even to get that speed bonus, and, most importantly to me, the easy to make breeches are the ones with the really terrible seals. Electrical tape does not make good breech seals. Even if it does initially, it wears away quickly. Brass inside brass needs to seal for at least half, if not a whole inch to seal properly, resulting in a big clunky, potentially unwieldy barrel and noticeable range losses.

I do have lots of war experience with these different types. My primaries have been speedloader'd pistol splat, rscb +pistol, turreted/ramrodded 1500, singled sgsl, with a few others mixed in there.


*Think finger-loading nitefinder, or having a loose fit where gravity can just push the dart in (bpso's tagger 4b comes to mind)

Edited by Split, 27 July 2009 - 11:16 AM.

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#25 spartan062

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 06:43 PM

So you are suggesting a speed-loader system?
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