25 replies to this topic

[BritNerfMogul]

Right, lets cut to the chase here:

Crossbows = over priced and over worshipped

Am I the only one who thinks that Crossbows are place on a pedestal that shouldn't exist in the realms of Nerf?
I'm interested in purchasing one, not to become a good nerfer (I don't need a Xbow for that), but to paint and keep in my collection as a good looking blaster. The same reason I have a recon. It sucks bog, but looks fantastic. So why should I have to hand over an arm and a leg for a piece (Sorry, several pieces and a spring) of plastic? And sometimes, why are the prices of JUST THE SHELL the same as the full blaster? It's madness.
There are several other blasters that are capable of the ranges of a xbow, yet these are nowhere near the same price as a xbow. The logical just doesn't compute. If this were to be applied, all AT3K's should be the same. There should be no reason for the high price tag. And if someone mentions rarity, I kindly point them to the trading section and ebay, where several stock and modified xbow have suddenly become available.

By all means, charge $150+ when you've done all the work, but not stock.

So NIC, I ask you as one, to make the crossbow what it should be. Just another blaster to have in the arsenal. Not some status symbol that fails when you do. It's a toy. Let us make the right step, and consider the selling price of a crossbow. Because really, all they are to people are another blaster...

Edited by BritNerfMogul, 09 July 2009 - 05:24 PM.

[Zorns Lemma]

That's like asking the community to self-impose a price ceiling and minimize their own profits. Too bad people who sell xbows do it for the money.

[CoasterDynamix757]

I have a crossbow I can part with for 500$ and groove's soul...

[Soothsayer]

Well as soon as you get a crossbow I'd be more than willing to buy it off you for $60.


Supply and demand, it's not your place to tell people how much to sell things for, and if I wanna sell a stock nitefinder that I painted for $30, that's what I'm gonna do, and no one can do ANYTHING other than not bid on it.

Long story short, mind your own sales, get with the times, etc etc etc

[Zorns Lemma]

Soothsayer, on Jul 9 2009, 05:08 PM, said:

Supply and demand, it's not your place to tell people how much to sell things for, and if I wanna sell a stock nitefinder that I painted for $30, that's what I'm gonna do, and no one can do ANYTHING other than not bid on it.

Translation: we're less of a community of nerfers and more of a bunch of selfish people trying to extort money and make sadly marginal profits. Aren't we awesome

[Talio]

Aw Brit, did we have to make a thread about it? We've been over this a million times. But oh well, here it goes:

The crossbow is good for a number of reasons. In most cases the crossbow does not break because it only has three moving parts. The ones that are breaking lately are trying to hard to push the performance. It's not a super far shooting gun and once you over power it, parts start breaking. There's only so much stress you can put it under. Also, while a little small you can hold it like an actual gun. To add, the plusbow has kind of taken it's place, but it's a more complex gun. I had the Talibow for years before it broke. My plusbow's stock is already starting to bow, plus the screws come out pretty easy and I'm constantly having to reseat the plate at the back of the plunger tube. It's a good gun and for the extra performance you get out of it, it's a good balance, but the crossbow is a much easier gun to deal with.

I will admit that kids are spending too much money on them now, but the demand is high and the supply is low. That's how a market works.

Talio.

[jackster57]

Hell, cars used to be sold for $150 so lets just sell new cars for that same price. Its madness I tell you!
It's called inflation. Figure it out.

[BritNerfMogul]

Zorn's Lemma, on Jul 9 2009, 11:12 PM, said:

Soothsayer, on Jul 9 2009, 05:08 PM, said:

Supply and demand, it's not your place to tell people how much to sell things for, and if I wanna sell a stock nitefinder that I painted for $30, that's what I'm gonna do, and no one can do ANYTHING other than not bid on it.

Translation: we're less of a community of nerfers and more of a bunch of selfish people trying to extort money and make sadly marginal profits. Aren't we awesome

Absolutly. We're supposed to be a community, not here to screw each other over. As soon as the first person said 'I bet a crosbow will make you a better nerfer' he should have been killed, and the sentance forgotton.
I stand by my post, and think we should start working together. LIKE A COMMUNITY.

[Soothsayer]

Zorn's Lemma, on Jul 9 2009, 06:12 PM, said:

Soothsayer, on Jul 9 2009, 05:08 PM, said:

Supply and demand, it's not your place to tell people how much to sell things for, and if I wanna sell a stock nitefinder that I painted for $30, that's what I'm gonna do, and no one can do ANYTHING other than not bid on it.

Translation: we're less of a community of nerfers and more of a bunch of selfish people trying to extort money and make sadly marginal profits Intelligent entrepreneurs . Aren't we awesome

Yeah

[BritNerfMogul]

jackster57, on Jul 9 2009, 11:14 PM, said:

Hell, cars used to be sold for $150 so lets just sell new cars for that same price. Its madness I tell you!
It's called inflation. Figure it out.

Do you have any idea how the market works? This really isn't inflation, it's greed and manipulation of stupid people.

Edited by BritNerfMogul, 09 July 2009 - 05:17 PM.

[umpshaplapa]

You can say how over-priced they are all you want. But if I'm selling a crossbow, why would I want to sell it for $60 instead of 5 times that?

[Talio]

I'm not sure anyone said that the crossbow makes you a better nerfer, but there is a reason why the best nerfers use it. It's true that the gun doesn't make the nerfer. However, if you're a good carpenter you're going to use the best tools available to you. The crossbow was the best tool available to us for a long time.

[Soothsayer]

BritNerfMogul, on Jul 9 2009, 06:14 PM, said:

Zorn's Lemma, on Jul 9 2009, 11:12 PM, said:

Soothsayer, on Jul 9 2009, 05:08 PM, said:

Supply and demand, it's not your place to tell people how much to sell things for, and if I wanna sell a stock nitefinder that I painted for $30, that's what I'm gonna do, and no one can do ANYTHING other than not bid on it.

Translation: we're less of a community of nerfers and more of a bunch of selfish people trying to extort money and make sadly marginal profits. Aren't we awesome

Absolutly. We're supposed to be a community, not here to screw each other over. As soon as the first person said 'I bet a crosbow will make you a better nerfer' he should have been killed, and the sentance forgotton.
I stand by my post, and think we should start working together. LIKE A COMMUNITY.

It's the same principals that go into buying an antique car, alright?

Sure, I can get a much more efficient and cheaper vehicle than a 67 Mustang, but the fact is I want one, and I'm willing to pay the price to get one.

You can't turn back time, and frankly no one and nothing is going to do so. Sure, expense is something that sucks in this hobby, but that's any hobby, so grow up, pay the price you'll have to, or just shut up and don't buy, and frankly, if you get a majority of this site to join your little "petition" against over priced blasters, any of us can still find plenty of willing individuals to pay the price we're asking.

[Blue]

Another Thread just like this one.

Crossbows are really just classic. They are as simple as can be inside, but the shell has both style and comfort. And you can replace/repair pretty much everything to the shell and internals. They are pretty much the only NERF brand gun that can still compete at wars today, as BBBBs, RFSGs, PASs, Maxshots, Pistolsplats and homemades are mainly what is used now, with some exception for longshots.

Edit: Don't call me stupid, I have money and I can use it how I want, and as a seller, I can sell for what I want, and if people don't like it, then they don't pay me.

Edited by Blue, 09 July 2009 - 05:24 PM.

[BritNerfMogul]

Soothsayer, on Jul 9 2009, 11:19 PM, said:

BritNerfMogul, on Jul 9 2009, 06:14 PM, said:

Zorn's Lemma, on Jul 9 2009, 11:12 PM, said:

Soothsayer, on Jul 9 2009, 05:08 PM, said:

Supply and demand, it's not your place to tell people how much to sell things for, and if I wanna sell a stock nitefinder that I painted for $30, that's what I'm gonna do, and no one can do ANYTHING other than not bid on it.

Translation: we're less of a community of nerfers and more of a bunch of selfish people trying to extort money and make sadly marginal profits. Aren't we awesome

Absolutly. We're supposed to be a community, not here to screw each other over. As soon as the first person said 'I bet a crosbow will make you a better nerfer' he should have been killed, and the sentance forgotton.
I stand by my post, and think we should start working together. LIKE A COMMUNITY.

It's the same principals that go into buying an antique car, alright?

Sure, I can get a much more efficient and cheaper vehicle than a 67 Mustang, but the fact is I want one, and I'm willing to pay the price to get one.

You can't turn back time, and frankly no one and nothing is going to do so. Sure, expense is something that sucks in this hobby, but that's any hobby, so grow up, pay the price you'll have to, or just shut up and don't buy, and frankly, if you get a majority of this site to join your little "petition" against over priced blasters, any of us can still find plenty of willing individuals to pay the price we're asking.

Firstly, calm down big 'un.

Secondly, this isn't a petition, more of a 'me trying to understand the situation' thread. That and trying to offer some advice. If you don't like it, you don't have to post so much and try to belittle me.

Also, are you really trying to compare the sale of a classic car to the sale of a childs toy? Comtext is key. A classic car is worth so much money because a wider audience is involved. The market for classic nerf guns isn't that big, I'm pretty sure of that.

That's like saying one of my kidneys is worth more than your kidneys because my blood type is rarer.... except that kind of thing is illegal.

Edited by BritNerfMogul, 09 July 2009 - 05:36 PM.

[Talio]

Brit,

If you're just trying to understand it is supply and demand. Crossbows are rare. They haven't been made for over 15 years. They used to only cost around 60 bucks, but that was when there were 3000 members on the site. Now that there are 30,000, the price is going to go sky high because more people want them. As I said before, high demand, low supply.

Talio.

[BritNerfMogul]

Talio, on Jul 9 2009, 11:43 PM, said:

Brit,

If you're just trying to understand it is supply and demand. Crossbows are rare. They haven't been made for over 15 years. They used to only cost around 60 bucks, but that was when there were 3000 members on the site. Now that there are 30,000, the price is going to go sky high because more people want them. As I said before, high demand, low supply.

Talio.

Finally, a straight answer.

As we have discussed before Talio. I understand, but I feel it should be as high as it is. Seeing as there are several alternatives available, surely the crossbow should be in decline....
No?

Edited by BritNerfMogul, 09 July 2009 - 05:48 PM.

[Possemhunter]

It's called a free market. No one has the right to stop you from selling something for as much as you want to. This doesn't mean that someone will buy what you are selling, it just means no one has the right to judge and set limits to the what you think the value of something is. Crossbows have a good reputation so people will have to spend money to get one. I personally would never spend that much money on a crossbow because I don't have 200 dollars to play around with and a toy dart gun is not on my high priority list in life. Other people are different and it's a personal choice how important something is to you and what you will do to get it.

[Soothsayer]

Brit-

Most alternatives have many flaws, where the crossbow has more or less none (excluding price)

[CaptainSlug]

BritNerfMogul, on Jul 9 2009, 06:46 PM, said:

As we have discussed before Talio. I understand, but I feel it should be as high as it is. Seeing as there are several alternatives available, surely the crossbow should be in decline....
No?

And Coach bags should only be worth $5-$10 each. And yet some strange people spend three-figure amounts on them.

It doesn't have to make sense.

[BritNerfMogul]

Fair Point Sooth.

But as the owner of a classic car, I know a bit about appreciation (Moneywise)

Age + rarity + performance DOESN'T = Skyhigh prices.

I have a car that's 23 years old, only one of 200 left in the world, and can eat one of the most modern porsches for breakfast. Yet It's nowhere near the same price. This can be found in all sorts of places.

I feel the crossbow is the same. Look at the +bow. My apologies to who ever made it, as I have forgotten your name, but said nerfer has made one for $30. If it works, it's a bargain. And a +bow stand on the same principles. Simplicity.

I agree, nothing I really say can change anything, but maybe if everyone just thinks about it. Everyone. Then maybe, just maybe...

[VACC]

Haha, why would kill your credability by mentioning that you want to buy one in the same post where you attempt to reason that their prices be lowered? That's just dumb. Of course they are. If that's truly your belief, simply don't buy one. The fact remains, people ARE buying them at those prices. It's obscene, but it's not gonna change cause you complain about it.

[navyseal849]

I don't own a crossbow. I have never HELD a crossbow. But as far as I have heard they have range, comfort, reliability and rarity. The only things that are missing are RoF and ammo capacity. Ok, I'll dish out $40 for it. If its previously modded maybe $100.
If you are requesting we move on from crossbows then sure thing, I bet plenty of people (including me) are willing to do that. Why not replace it with the BBB or BBBB? They have range, not so much comfort, reliability and not much rarity. The only things that are missing are RoF and ammo capacity. Ok, I'll dish out $20 for it. If its previously modded maybe $80. They also happen to be easier to find, you don't need to spend ages looking for someone who will sell you an Xbow for $200 when you can go to Target and get a BBB for $20. BBB's are only in production for certain companies, soon they will become as rare as an Xbow. Just give it 15 years. Oh you want a gun like Groove's? Slap a NF onto the BBB and your all set!
That's my opinion, I personally don't want a Crossbow, BBBB, BBB or a +bow. I prefer RoF and capacity. I'm just waiting for the Raider to come out. Once again, that's my opinion and correct me if I gave any incorrect information.

[fallinouttadabox]

If you're not actually going to use it why not just buy the shell? Who cares about the performance you get from the internals if you're just going to let it sit on a shelf?

And you're little equation didn't factor in demand, one of the reasons the LnL isn't as high priced is because we have the NF. A little $8 gun that does just about the same thing as it's $40 older brother. Sure it's rare, performs well, and old, but there is not nearly the demand for it.

[Zorns Lemma]

Soothsayer, on Jul 9 2009, 05:14 PM, said:

Zorn's Lemma, on Jul 9 2009, 06:12 PM, said:

Translation: we're less of a community of nerfers and more of a bunch of selfish people trying to extort money and make sadly marginal profits Intelligent entrepreneurs . Aren't we awesome

Look at me I can edit what other people say and look hip doing it!

I've said this a lot on IRC, but since you don't seem to visit, I'll say it again: Anyone who tries to make large amounts of money in Nerf trading is a douche.

Note that this does not mean Nerf selling; I don't care if you make something cosmetically appealing, make a youtube video of it, and then market it on ebay for $500. Your buyer most likely is either an airsoft fanboy, has an odd system of utility, or is stupid.

Nerf trading, on the other hand, is supposed to be nerfers helping each other out. However, like any system of trading in a specific community, it'll turn into a metamarket (actually, it's a submarket, but this type of market occurs most in the metagames of MMORPGs, so I refer to it as a metamarket). For someone to try to make money from this then, would be abusing the metamarket, and makes you a douche. It is on the same douchiness level as the higher uppers in our awesome capitalist system who thing they are entitled to $bignum salaries because they graduated from $bumpersticker school.

A metamarket in principle is stupid. They revolve around a targeted product in a very small buyer pool, with no real value outside that buyer pool. Classic metamarkets would be the people who sell WoW or Runescape items/gold for real money. Next, a metamarket contains no real money. The easiest way to look at this is the modding services category. Someone offered me $40 to buy the BBB I debuted at Chano 2 (and then posted about) and then used again at SPANO. Great deal right? Not really. Total time spent on the gun, including planning and buying materials, comes out to around 9 hours, and even at minimum wage, that's at least $60 worth of time. Exception of course, lies in the xbow market.

But while the xbow market may have profits, the very nature of it makes anyone who abuses it a douche. The given value of the item is much higher than it's real value; this makes the system economically stupid. The existence of the metamarket is dependent on the community; anyone abusing the metamarket is then depriving the community, and just in the socio-economic sense, also stupid. A rather lengthy argument could be made here, but in brief, the pure capitalist system not only is a myth, but the pursuit of it is highly detrimental.

Conclusion: if you were really an intelligent entrepreneur, you'd get a real job, and spend your time in NH trying to help others.

Now, as for the problem at hand, the only way changes can be made, is from the side with market power. And in the case of rare items, that'll be the sellers.