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Human Vs. Zombie Help

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#1 Gevaudan

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Posted 10 May 2009 - 10:49 AM

Hey all,

Long time reader, first time poster.

In my area there is a monthly humans vs. zombies game that has on average 200 people playing. Essentially, a zombie two hand touch makes another zombie and a zombie shot by a dart is dead for 2 minutes. Humans cannot camp, climb trees or use any melee weapons. Stock darts are mandatory. The game is played at night and lights are not allowed.

With a starting group of about 30 zombies, there are generally no humans alive after 50 minutes. For a human to win, they have to get on to a guarded "helipad" after 55 minutes.

Our last playthough, my small team (~10) managed to keep a large group of players (30-40) alive to 45 minutes, then I died. I was leading the group and morale collapsed. Everyone died.

1.) I'm looking for advice on repelling huge groups of zombies (30-60) up close. We rely heavily on large clip guns like tommy's and vulcans. They take a lot of time to reload and a big enough group of zombies generally reaches the group through sheer inertia. This brings about too many casualties.

2.) I'm looking for some options for high distance kills to thin zombies before they can group. We are currently using several modified NF's. The ideal gun would fire far, accurate and be easy to reload. Remember it is dark and no steffans.

We are very close to bringing a big enough group to shoot our way onto a helipad and win. I'd love some advice to push us the rest of the way.
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#2 Jedijoe9

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Posted 10 May 2009 - 11:07 AM

I'd had to deal with scenarios very similiar to yours at our quarterly HVZ game So far, we've never had a group of humans "win" and a consistent factor of humans making it far has been finding real dick spots (for example, balconies, etc) in which to survive. Even so, I had a couple ideas.

The first thing that came to my mind would be a CPVC flip clip'ed big bad bow. With proper modification, you can probably get stock darts 60-70 feet with the BBB. The flip clip would need a bit of alteration to efficiently use stock darts, but it still does the same thing. While the ROF seems low, it is actually a bit deceptive. Unlike the Tommy 20, etc, you can get a constant stream of darts going without a pause for reloading. Fire. Flip. Fire. Reload. Flip, etc. If you could get around five nerfers competent in that, you can keep the zombies at a distance. The rest of your team would probably need the high ROF weapons like the RF20, Tommy 20, etc.

My other suggestion is just to find good defensible terrain. I realize you said no camping, but scout out the area ahead of time for good choke points, etc. Too many times I've seen humans with great teamwork and skill get taken out because they had their last stand in the middle of a goddamn field.

Good luck!
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#3 CROW

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Posted 10 May 2009 - 12:53 PM

If the field is large enough, I'd suggest breaking your group of humans into many smaller groups (5-8 per group), in order to maximize the amount of time it takes to hunt them all down. Each group would ideally have a majority of high firepower guns with a longer distance gun or two to back things up. Then with the small groups, I'd use hit-and-run tactics. Basically, just wear the zombies down with running and firing, running and firing. In the last 5 minutes, you could have all human survivors regroup close to the final point and hold out from there. (Oh, and one last thing. It would definitely help you out to have someone you and everyone else trusts to lead if you're taken down. That way you don't collapse as a group the moment you fall.)

So thats my take on this. Hopefully it wasnt too much of a mouthful to read, and I apologize if it was.
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#4 Mr BadWrench

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Posted 10 May 2009 - 01:36 PM

Humans need to be spaced about 3-5ft apart depending on your weapons so each person can cover 2 or 3 of his teammates at once. Strongest players shoudl be assigned to the flanks and each player needs to be aware and always position himself exactly between his teamates on each side. players on the ends need to make sure they adjust their stance and position so they can always be guarding the flank, even if it means "circling the wagons" and becoming a human turret

It is a wise idea to have several teams positioned close enough that they can cover eachother but far enough apart to allow fire and movement while setting up crossfire situations whenever possible also teams need to be able to regroup into a single group when players are lost.

My best luck during HvZ rounds comes from communication between humans as to where the threats are and where they seem to be moving, even if you are not directly threatened you want to know who is and if possibly you can help them as a group. With very small groups if each teammate is assigned a zombie to watch and does her or her job it hard to lose.

Don
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#5 Cmdrmack

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Posted 10 May 2009 - 07:32 PM

Bigger Salvo against a charging horde. Stuns several at a time. Long reload time though, so be aware of that issue.

If you're looking for something else, I would also recommend the BBB.

As far as close range stuff goes, I'd say the DTB. Easy to reload and prime, ideal ROF, large ammo capacity and reasonably accurate.

Mobility is the key to your survival. Take a small group of five or six people and stay on the move. If your group gets too large it'll attract the attention of the horde. Moreover, it will reduce the mobility of your group if it gets too large.
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QUOTE(Predalien_Ro @ Apr 7 2008, 10:24 PM) View Post

Oompa: FECES!? Who in their right mind would try that shit!?


Bigger Salvo

{FWPC}

#6 Shrub

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Posted 10 May 2009 - 07:48 PM

I would have a drop clipped mav in a holster with a spare turret and a magstrike with two spare clips LOADED AT ALL TIMES make sure you have atleast 300+ dart's though. Also the blaster's must be modified to their extent and if you got the cash and your serious buy a HPA tank and hook it up to the MS.
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#7 Fresh

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Posted 10 May 2009 - 07:57 PM

If I was you, I would make a Micro-Titan and shotgun it to 3 or 4 barrels. It will have a good spread for a large group of zombies. Aim it in the air and arch darts down onto them. Its compact and you can make a sling for it. You should also have a single shot gun for medium range. My AT2K is cpvc singled and works extremely well with stock darts. Accurate up to about 50-60 feet and the dart travels straight enough for a good arched shot.
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#8 Hi Yah

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Posted 10 May 2009 - 08:54 PM

I'd recommend using a magstrike that is modded to shoot two clips and has the ar's removed. It will give you ok range, good spread, and great rof. You could also use a big salvo or a pistolslpat for great ranges and ok rof.
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#9 Mr BadWrench

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Posted 10 May 2009 - 08:57 PM

Ok, If ANY of you are on my team for HvZ im surrendering to the zombies.
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#10 Captain Scottland

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Posted 10 May 2009 - 09:34 PM

It might be a good idea to invest in a vulcan for one or two of your group members. Do NOT go more than two however because if every one has a vulcan chances are that within 55 min two or more people will be reloading at one time which will only weaken your group. One person should make the Tsunami Scatter gun with the big blast. It gives a good spread and with four or five shells can hold off zombies for quite awhile because of its multiple zombie kills per shot. All others should stick to using the NFs as a secondary and either a BBB or an AT2K. As stated before teamwork is most definitely key. For example, the two vulcans should not be firing at the same time unless necessary to avoid reloading at the same time.
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#11 k9turrent

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Posted 10 May 2009 - 10:28 PM

For repelling a massive hoarde:
Pas couplered for flipbreech and/or 3 round spread shotgun, carry a crapload of "shells" they will be a pain to reload after wards, but they will work when in a tight bind.
pros:
-eliminate multiple zombies
-aim isn't as important, 3 round spread
-Pas has a better ROF than an Air powered Scattergun
-option for long range and close

cons:
-reloading the "shells" afterwards
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QUOTE View Post

That's about it. And thanks Angela who helped me with these pictures.. It looks huge in her hands.


HOLY CRAP!

FU ALL

#12 Captain Scottland

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Posted 10 May 2009 - 11:25 PM

k9 is right I completely forgot about the PAS although my scattergun only requires 7 pumps before it's at full power the PAS is much faster and therefore more efficient.

Edited by Captain Scottland, 10 May 2009 - 11:26 PM.

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#13 BritNerfMogul

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Posted 10 May 2009 - 11:31 PM

Personally, I'd go with the following setup:

1. Someone with something long range. Set him up behind the main group. He can pick zombies off if they get too close and you can't shoot them.
2. Everyone else armed with mid range, high ROF weapons - low mod LS and recons. Attack in waves so there's time to reload.
3. Keep moving, and don't bunch up.
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#14 Captain Scottland

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Posted 10 May 2009 - 11:37 PM

This is a little off topic in the sense it's not offering you help, but where do you play this game because I would love to join in.
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#15 wardrive

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Posted 10 May 2009 - 11:51 PM

Look, in this sort of game firepower matters most followed by accuracy and then by range. You want weapons whcih can crank out plenty of shots very fast, and reload very fast.

Primary(s):
Longshot (pump action mod reccomended)
Vulcan
RF20
SuperMaxx 2500/3000

Secondaries:
Maverick (can be bought very cheap)
Recon
Hornet

Extra Gear:
Backpack
-lots of ammo/clips
-Water
Hydration Pack/Backpack
-(see backpack)
Flashlights (if nightime)
*attach carrying straps/lanards to weapons if possible

You want to have a doctrine that focuses heavily on being able to shoot your way out of any situation. I highly recommend getting investing in a Vulcan with lots (at least 200+) of extra ammo. Assign one person to use the vulcan and another with a decent gun of their own to help carry the extra ammo, and fend off the zombies when the vulcan is being reloaded. A good vulcan team takes practice so neither member is reloading at the same time. The longshot( AR removed, and enhanced sping) w/pump action is a good general weapon for any situation.
I highly reccomend the Maverick as a sidearm, it's cocking method makes it easily one of the fastest (ROF) spring pistols. It's cheap (usually less than 7$ USD). Just make sure you count your shots, sometimes 6 seems like 5.
You can't carry (or shouldn't) tons of ammo in your pockets, a backpack is perfect for storing the tons of ammo you're sure to go through. It's recommended that you carry 75% of the ammo you'd need if you didn't reuse any darts (if I would theoretically use 100 darts, I would pack 75-ish). Water is also strongly advised since all the extra gear you carrying might start being cumbersome after 30 mins depending on your load. If you can afford a hydration pack w/ cargo capacity, buy it!

Edited by wardrive, 10 May 2009 - 11:53 PM.

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#16 AssassinNF

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Posted 11 May 2009 - 12:46 AM

The best long-range gun for firing stock darts is the Big Bad Bow. Simply cut off the very end of the barrel, open it up, remove the rest of the air restrictor, put it back together and shove a crayola barrel in the stock barrel. A good Crayola barrel would be better than brass or CPVC, simply because it fits stock darts well and requires no twisting or major effort to load a dart. With a crayola'd BBB, you can maintain an adequate rate of fire, and you will have the extra range you're looking for.

Other great guns with stock darts are:

-DTG - great rate of fire, very easy to reload, and performs well in close-quarters.
-Vulcan - of course. Just be wary of reloading.
-Maverick - for desperate situations. always a good secondary in stock dart games.
-Blowgun - seriously. Just a piece of 1/2" PVC or something similar. Blowguns have decent range and rof, and are ridiculously accurate.

What I would avoid:

-Magstrikes - A magstrike's clip is realistically only good for spray-killing one zombie, and reloading's a bitch. You'd be better off with a DTG.
-RF20's - Even worse. Sure, you can kill more than one zombie with it before reloading, but you're fucked when you do need to reload. Just a waste of time and ammo. If you must use a rapid fire blaster, use a Vulcan.
-Shotguned Titans / other multi-dart blast cannons - the practicality of something that wastes ammo and takes a while to reload eludes me.
-Air guns in general - Pumping is not your friend. And if you have a lull in the battle for a while, there's always that chance that your made-in-china nerf blaster has a small, gradual leak (many of my airguns do - they lose pressure after a while), and when the zombies show up again, you're not as ready as you thought you were. I would stick to trusty ole' springers.
-Longshots / Recons - just limits the kinds of ammo you can use, which is not good. Besides that, streamlines are terribly innacurate, and LS's and Recons occasionally jam.
-Any gun with shells - I don't need to explain this one at all.

My absolute best gun for zombies in my opinion is my Doomsayer. It has great range, great rof, and great accuracy. It's also easy to reload.

A typical Doomsayer would not meet your needs - it uses stefans, and it's very difficult to create. but it would be very easy to pick up an RFSG, and shove some short barrels into the stock barrels, making a stock-dart Doomsayer. It would have all the benefits of a Doomsayer, but it would fire stock darts and it would be a very easy mod.

Hope this rant helps -_-
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#17 Spencer

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Posted 11 May 2009 - 02:09 AM

I had an idea for a spring + air powered lonshot that could fire with the normal ROF of a longshot (make a doubleclip) and also having the option to give it the extra oomph by using an alternate trigger acitvated air blast from a titan or magstrike or at2k ot at3k tank. This would let you hit long range, and have a decent ROF.

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#18 nerfdude123

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Posted 11 May 2009 - 04:23 PM

I agree with you about pump guns, but what about using an at2k, at3k, or at4k. A couple of pumps and decent ranges. Plus reloading is not bad.
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#19 Gevaudan

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Posted 11 May 2009 - 05:46 PM

Wow. Lively responses; thank you all!

Major point to address that has so far been unaddressed:

Most of the players are unskilled and poorly armed. How do 10-15 of us keep a big group of them alive? The big group is in my estimation a win condition.


In order-

Jedi: I've got a spare BBB and I'll look into that mod. Also, its a big park with no balcony type terrain. It's like a 3/4 mile square field. With that said, I use hills and valleys extensively.

Mr. BW: The human turret is a solid call, it's happened in three games so far when the stuff hit the fan. I agree with your spacing and use it already. When we have a big group, we have roaming small groups walking the perimeter to achieve crossfire.

Shrub: We have dedicated ammo guys who carry 100's of rounds and loaded belts and clips.

K9: ran a forun search and a google search for PAS and couldn't find it.

Captain: Grand Rapids, MI.

Assassin: OMG! I've never seen an RFSG before and I own a lot of dart guns. It's time to get a few.

A few of my own thoughts:

1.) Pump guns don't make much sense to me, when a modified NF is cheap. If I wanted a long steady air supply, I should mod for compressed air. See exception below.

2.) I like the shotgun idea. I'll make a few of those out of the Big Salvo, which is cheap and easy. It's going to be hard to find someone patient enough to wait to use it only when necessary.

3.) Small groups cannot shoot their way onto the helipad, and therefore cannot win unless they can sneak past 100+ people. Each helipad is guarded by half of the available zombies at the end of the game.
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#20 Shrub

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Posted 11 May 2009 - 06:41 PM

Yeah compressed air is one of your best bets. Also rev amp a vulcan and enlarge the ammo box to use 50 shot clips. Also for fun supersnipers on the roof tops and pay Rambo to come and kick some ass have helicopters and lanard grenades just raining for the sky it will be won in no time in a budget under 1Million.
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#21 Darken

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Posted 11 May 2009 - 07:06 PM

Shrub actually kinda reminded me of the Lanard grenades. They're basically little footballs with the tail being the pump and with six spots on the back for darts. If you had a couple of these, they'd be great to hold of a horde of them. They're hard to use correctly and take some aiming practice, but once you get used to them they could make a great difference, especially since you can throw them long distances and cause havoc for the regrouping zombies. They could probably solve your problem if your team uses enough of them right.
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#22 Captain Scottland

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Posted 11 May 2009 - 09:05 PM

Damn, I am in NJ so there is no way I can get there.

The PAS is the ETRL Pump Action Shotgun. It originally shoots yellow balls, but it's an easy mod to convert.

The grenades could make the helipad seem much easier to reach if you lob them around the horde.

Definitely mod the BBB mine can shoot 70ft with just a barrel replacement. The shotgun should be made out of a PAS because it is spring so the ROF is much more efficient.
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#23 AssassinNF

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Posted 11 May 2009 - 11:42 PM

You can usually get an RFSG (ERTL Rapid Fire Shotgun) for around $25 online. Here's a few sites.

The PAS is the RFSG's little brother. It's the ERTL Pump Shotgun. Everyone calls it a PAS when there is no "Action" in the name at all. Here's a couple links for the PAS.
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#24 Gevaudan

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Posted 13 May 2009 - 03:01 PM

I just got my first RFSG today. It's terrible out of the box, but it is a really nice gun for modding. If I can get the distance up, I might prefer it to a LS. the clip is pretty impressive.

Grenades of any kind are out, by rule. A shame for sure. I'd love to rent a helicopter and just drop several boxes of ammo on the zombies.
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#25 darthmonkey

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Posted 16 May 2009 - 07:59 PM

I have a couple of concerns about the rules you use, which if you change might be good, might be bad?

Why can humans not camp?

If humans can camp, then I see it being a lot easier to hold off zombies as you can find a more defendable position.

Why can zombies camp?

Do the zombies know about the helipad? Zombies are generally dumb, right? It would definitely make the game easier if the zombies are not allowed to guard your extraction point, though you may want the impossible ending.
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