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The Xbow And Lnl Debate

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#1 dizzyduck

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 12:51 PM

This is NOT a "what's the best gun" thread!

This is instead a discussion about the iconic nature of the Nerf Crossbow and the Lock n' Load. Stock xbows can fetch a market price upwards of $300, and even poorly modded or broken ones still command triple-digit price tags on the NIC. Many argue that the xbow is the best primary out there. The same goes for the Lock n' Load, which commands a hefty price tag as well.

My question is this: are both blasters overrated? Are they worth shelling out $250 and $45 respectively when one can acquire an ERTL Pump Shotgun and a NiteFinder for $30 and $10 respectively? Or are nerfers paying for the "mystique" that comes with using the xbow and LnL rather than tangible qualities such as performance?

(And if this is deemed somehow unworthy of the bandwidth space, I will duly accept my 9,999-day suspension.)

Edited by dizzyduck, 06 May 2009 - 12:52 PM.

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#2 umpshaplapa

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 12:57 PM

I think you are definitely paying for the prestige that comes with the X-bow. Considering you can get a +bow that gets just as good, or better ranges than it.

Edited by umpshaplapa, 06 May 2009 - 02:59 PM.

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#3 Captain

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 01:15 PM

I really don't see the attraction of either the Xbow or the LnL. They'd be cool to have, don't get me wrong, but there's no freaking way I'd pay the prices they go for to get one. I can get something pretty much just as good for at least a third of the price. It's just not worth it.

I like old guns, but not when I have to be wallet-diddled in order to obtain them. That's my two cents.
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#4 xbox180

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 01:20 PM

Screw X-Bows, there I said it, and please don't flame me.



They are overated, you can stick a barrel on a BBBB and get the exact same ranges. I have used my uncles old one before I got into nerf and the only good thing about it was the comfort. There are many springers out there that canget exact or better ranges. Just stick to an ERTL shotgun. Thank God someone had made this topic
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#5 Fome

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 01:20 PM

Definitely a status thing. They're both out of production, extremely comfortable, perform well, and most importantly, they're becoming increasingly rare.

There are several primary worthy alternatives, however, that match or surpass those two icons with few basic mods. The PAS, of course, but then there's also the BBBB, the BBB, the maxshot, snapbows, titans, etc. I would include the +bow in that list but if you're unable to machine the parts then you're likely looking at a $100 investment at minimum. One of the main allures to nerf is that you can conceivably do it for very little money.

So yeah: I think they're overrated, simply because there's so many less expensive alternatives that perform similarly.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't take a crossbow in a hearbeat. <_<

#6 k9turrent

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 01:34 PM

My theory:

CrossBow: staus + comfort + reliability = Effeminate win

LnL: Simplicity + realistic = Effeminate

But they are overpriced pieces of plastic
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#7 Langley

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 01:44 PM

I've never had a primary as reliable, easy to repair, easy to mod, and comfortable as the crossbow. The plusbow is nice, but it doesn't feel the same. I haven't really used the PAS, but it seems pretty breakable, and I'm not thrilled about the realism factor. I've never been able to keep a maxshot in working order. And all pump guns fail sooner or later. I look forward to the day someone makes a single shot primary I'd rather use, but for now, I'm happy with my crossbow. That having been said, if mine breaks irreparably, I doubt I'll buy a new one at these crazy price tags. If you've got $200 or more to spend on a nerf gun, get a well made plusbow and spend the rest on foam or gas money for apoc. Oh, and buy a roll of hockey tape for that handle, you'll need it.

As for the LnL, I don't really see what the big deal is. What's wrong with a nitefinder?

Edited by Langley, 06 May 2009 - 01:48 PM.

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#8 PointBlank

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 01:45 PM

I agree, but I still will probably end up getting a crossbow. I think that they are more of a collectors item than anything else. (Ok, I will admit that they are probably the best blaster out there)
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#9 Spud Spudoni

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 02:19 PM

I also agree that the newer nerfers want these for status symbols...
...Do you think it's compensating for something?
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#10 TantumBull

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 02:40 PM

I've talked with Talio at length about the crossbow thing over xbox live while playing call of duty. I'll just kind of outline what he said here, as I really don't have any experience with xbows, all I know is what I read over NH.

His main point was basically that the crossbow is a gun that you will never have to replace, unless your shell gets really fucked. Everything in a crossbow can be replaced. The plunger tube can be replaced, a new plunger can be machined (carrtoon made an aluminum one a while back), I don't remember exactly what he said about the trigger and the catch, but I believe he stated they could also be machined.

He mainly had the same sentiments as Langley, with that there really isn't any other gun out there that will last you forever. Air guns will eventually break if you pump them higher than the intended pressures, and pretty much all other springer primaries have major weak points (most notably the PAS, hopefully this will be changed within a month. I have been making some very interesting and different reinforcements on mine these past couple weeks. Expect a write-up within the month.)
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#11 CaptainSlug

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 02:50 PM

Yes they're overrated. But they were the staple primary for a very long time because there was absolutely nothing available that could really compare to it. It is only a very recent development that there are affordable and reliable blasters that are capable of shooting 100 feet consistently.

I just switched from a +bow to a Pump Shotgun, which I really like now. I'm not sure what you guys are breaking in them, but I'm not inclined to put as many ridiculously strong springs inside of it as some of you.

Other minor foibles with it
- Trigger is extremely touchy. It's beyond being a hair trigger and will go off if you just look at it funny. I'll have to add a stronger spring.
- Adding a stronger spring requires that you thread one onto the single-piece plunger rod. This can be awkward and difficult.
- Grip comfort level is marginal. Most of the time I'm using my middle finger to pull the trigger. Might make a replacement from scratch at a later date.

Edited by CaptainSlug, 06 May 2009 - 02:54 PM.

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#12 Blue

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 03:00 PM

A +Bow is better than a well modded crossbow performance wise (I've heard, never actually seen a +bow or modded xbow), but the feelings toward them are very different. Anyone can buy a +Bow, but getting a crossbow is a totally different story. There are an infinite amount of conditions you can get an Xbow in, in a HUGE range of price, and they aren't readily available. A +bow is always about $140 shipped, no matter who you buy from, and the only thing you can do with it once you get it is shoot it. With a crossbow, you get to mod it any way you want. As for the PAS comparison, I don't really like how they look like real guns, and I can't get used to the trigger. Another huge plus for the crossbow is the look of the shell. They didn't try to add ugly designs like the newer guns now, just sleek purple with some black grip looking stuff where it belongs.

For the LNL, it has the same plusses over homemades, but it has very few possible mods compared to a NF. I don't like NF's though. The plastic seems cheap to me, and the plunger rod has a stupid design. There is a little hump right before the little place where the catch goes, and the catch actually catches on the other side of the hump, not in the little spot cleared out for it. Replacing the catch spring wears this nub away, and is not comfortable to cock, as you have to get the catch over the hump with extra effort. The LNL has a tiny catch, but the plastic is durable and doesn't wear away. Making a straight barrel is very easy for the LNL, and it is also much easier to cock, aim, and shoot. And it's purple.
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#13 One Man Clan

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 03:45 PM

I'm not going to close this, but I'm not really a fan of this either. People need to understand that the Xbow and Lnl are so popular among vets for a variety of reasons, not just their range. I for one go up against guns that can flat out out-range me. There's a part of the game that so many miss. It's the feel of your gun(s) and how you can play better when you are comfortable with what you use.
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#14 Shrub

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 03:52 PM

Yes that JUST made me realize that I don't need a BBBB because I don't like shooting at a range and I always have it pumped up all the way and normaly(sp?) I don't like to inflict pain and run while someone chases me and then it results in my own defeat. AT2K's are my style and cheap I've had an X-Bow and I sucked with it. So if your a noob and reading this and you are REALLY good with AT2K's don't get an X-Bow EVER. What a great guy OMC is without trying.

Edited by Shrub, 06 May 2009 - 03:52 PM.

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#15 Daniel Beaver

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 04:17 PM

Both are beautiful blasters, in a nerfy way. The crossbow itself is a blaster that I find fun to use, which is sort of the whole point of nerf.

...I am sort of mystified about why people think the crossbow is so ergonomic -- the grip is very small, and the trigger is shallow. I guess I've just gotten used to the feel of the +bow.
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#16 Shadowblade

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 04:35 PM

I have not handled a LnL so I have no right to comment on that, but I've held a modded xbow before.

It is a VERY nice blaster, BUT it is definitely not for everyone. Some people (like Groove and Zaxbys) wield the weapon beautifully, but I think I'll stick to my SNAPbow. Everyone's style is different, therefore their choice of weapon will be different.

A little off topic: I am in the process making the SNAPbow a little more ergonomic and customizable. Look for a write-up within the next month :D .

Edited by Shadowblade, 06 May 2009 - 04:35 PM.

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#17 TantumBull

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 04:48 PM

I'm not sure what you guys are breaking in them, but I'm not inclined to put as many ridiculously strong springs inside of it as some of you.


I put about ten shots through mine when it was stock, and nothing bad happened to it. After that, before doing anything else with it, I opened it up and began to reinforce the hell out of it. I've heard horror stories and I don't want to buy a new one for parts. In other words, mine has never actually broken on me. I just want to prevent a future break.
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#18 diamondbacknf1626

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 04:50 PM

I personally have not used my x-bow in a war, as I'm still working on it's war-readiness. It's not quite 100% yet. However, I must say it is quite comfortable, even though comparatively, a +bow or SNAPbow has a much larger grip. Yes, I do understand the prices for which they go. However, I don't necessarily agree with them. I personally own and use a SNAPbow. Namely, The New Firm. I'll edit a link in in a second. Comparitavely, like most SNAPbows and +bows, it gets far better ranges than most xbows, is just as accurate if not more so, and due to the pipe insulation foam I used on the stock and cheek-rest portion of the stock, it's quite comfortable. To answer your question though, yes, I think it carries with it prestige, which makes it achieve such rediculous price tags. Yes, it is a great blaster, but so are the analogs of it, and they are far more inexpensive.

Lock n' Loads are also great blasters. I have one, and I love it. It has a great feel to it, is quite easily holsterable, is simple, and gets good ranges (even though ranges don't really give you much. See below for my feeling on ranges). Comparitavely to a nitefinder, they're the same ability wise. Range is similar (assuming both were modded at the same level), accuracy is probably similar, and the nf is also fairly simplistic once modded. I also am quite partial to the grip of a nitefinder. While it does require minimization to holster, it's a great pistol as well. I got my LnL fairly cheap, so I really can't say anything for the prices, but I can vouch for its preformance.

About range:
I figured I'd throw this in simply because I don't want to get flamed for saying that the +bow and SNAPbow have better ranges. I take range more at a standpoint of velocity, rather than in the respect of hitting someone from 120 ft. away, because unless you're very, very lucky, that's not happening mid-war). However, greater range translates to greater velocity. Greater velocity translates to the dart getting where it has to go faster, which translates to it being more difficult to dodge. A shot from an x-bow at 70 ft. is going to be easier to dodge than one from a SNAP or +bow, for example.

Also, with what everyone is saying regarding the ability to fix an x-bow easily and replace parts, the SNAPbow and +bow fall into that catagory as well...so it's not necessarily an advantage of the x-bow over its analogs.

Ok, that's it for my lengthy, lengthy opinion.
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QUOTE(TxNerfer @ Nov 13 2010, 12:42 PM) View Post

Hey...I got a crazy idea: how about you stop all that sigging stuff? It's not even my thread and it annoys me.

#19 TantumBull

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 04:57 PM

About range:
I figured I'd throw this in simply because I don't want to get flamed for saying that the +bow and SNAPbow have better ranges. I take range more at a standpoint of velocity, rather than in the respect of hitting someone from 120 ft. away, because unless you're very, very lucky, that's not happening mid-war). However, greater range translates to greater velocity. Greater velocity translates to the dart getting where it has to go faster, which translates to it being more difficult to dodge. A shot from an x-bow at 70 ft. is going to be easier to dodge than one from a SNAP or +bow, for example.

That is my doctrine 100%. Is this a complete coincidence, or have I mentioned this to you before?
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#20 BustaNinja

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 05:10 PM

Its all about how people play, what they like to do, and how they do it. OMC nailed it. Its not about what others think of your blaster. If you can rack up hits and get Effeminate shots off, who gives a fuck what blaster it is?

That being said...

The Crossbow feels pretty good. The Handle needs work, and the stock is a bit too short, but it produces a really good area to aim from. It just feels nice. "Gage, I've figured out the Crossbow's actual use... Its not a Nerf gun, its really a Pillow disguised as one" -Me at two MN wars ago.

The Lock n Load, same thing. It has a comfy handle, and it has a more pistol like feel, but that doesn't make it for everyone.

So, really guys, its all about what you like. Many people agree that its a comfy gun, and it feels nice and its never gonna break, but thats all how you see it. They aren't for everyone. They are by no means a coverall for the Nerf world. I, for example, have used Gage's crossbow during a round, and sure its comfy, but I just don't like it. Everyone has their own style, and what guns they like. Its pretty simple. And having faith in your blaster is great, so Crossbows again have another point in their favor. They hardly break without warning, and they are easily fixed.

Oh, and the Crossbow is not the best gun.

Everyone in MN KNOWS how awesome SM1500s are.
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#21 CoasterDynamix757

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 05:23 PM

First off I have never owned a crossbow, but I will be getting one later next week;). I do have a lock n load, and I must say I love it! It's very comfortable, easy to mod(just slap on a barrel) , and it's purple. But I have heard some claims that it is just an older first gen Nitefinder minus awesomeness. Only downside is the price I payed 70$! But if you have the money it's nice to have and will probably last longer.

As for the crossbow I feel they are probably overrated. They have huge plunger tubes; similar to god's all mighty penis, awesome range, look VERY comfortable with there huge stock, and there potential. But as I have absolutely no clue what I'm talking about, just making observations I will edit this once I get mine. Also I just cannot have a pas as mine broke within the first day of use, and all I did was coupler it no springs added. But I would probably have to stick with a crossbow If I had to choose.
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#22 Shrub

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 05:25 PM

Seriously SM1500's and AT2K's are way better than the X-Bow, smaller, just as much range, more velocity, DUAL WIELD-ABLE, MUCH more common, blah blah blah. Just kidding but most of the time they are better for one's play style.

Edited by Shrub, 06 May 2009 - 05:26 PM.

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#23 BustaNinja

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 05:43 PM

First off I have never owned a crossbow, but I will be getting one later next week;). I do have a lock n load, and I must say I love it! It's very comfortable, easy to mod(just slap on a barrel) , and it's purple. But I have heard some claims that it is just an older first gen Nitefinder minus awesomeness. Only downside is the price I payed 70$! But if you have the money it's nice to have and will probably last longer.

As for the crossbow I feel they are probably overrated. They have huge plunger tubes; similar to god's all mighty penis, awesome range, look VERY comfortable with there huge stock, and there potential. But as I have absolutely no clue what I'm talking about, just making observations I will edit this once I get mine. Also I just cannot have a pas as mine broke within the first day of use, and all I did was coupler it no springs added. But I would probably have to stick with a crossbow If I had to choose.

Actually the +bow, any SNAP and the Longshot have bigger plunger tubes, diameter wise. And the plunger draw is only, what, 4 1/2 inches?
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#24 BritNerfMogul

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 05:43 PM

I'm fairly new to the nerf scene, so I thought I'd throw in my opinion. I have no intention of getting or planning to get either of these blasters.

Yes, they are simple, and yes they appear comfortable, but that doesn't mean I'm going to pay stupid prices for two pieces of plastic. Even if I did, I'd never use them. In most of my wars, my fellow combatants only carry Tommy 20, or other useless shite. If I showed up with a xbow and LnL, they'd all go home.

This is the reason I stick with my LS and Recon. They are all I want from my blaster. comfy and useable. And cheap.
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#25 diamondbacknf1626

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 06:33 PM

About range:
I figured I'd throw this in simply because I don't want to get flamed for saying that the +bow and SNAPbow have better ranges. I take range more at a standpoint of velocity, rather than in the respect of hitting someone from 120 ft. away, because unless you're very, very lucky, that's not happening mid-war). However, greater range translates to greater velocity. Greater velocity translates to the dart getting where it has to go faster, which translates to it being more difficult to dodge. A shot from an x-bow at 70 ft. is going to be easier to dodge than one from a SNAP or +bow, for example.

That is my doctrine 100%. Is this a complete coincidence, or have I mentioned this to you before?


Complete coincidence. Actually, if anyone, Alextwin and I have discussed the topic of range vs. velocity a few times. But no...I don't think you've ever mentioned it.

Oh, and what everyone's saying about SM1.5k's, they're kind of difficult to compare, seeing as they're two entirely different types of blaster. I have a 1.5k as well, and it's great. Better than x-bow ranges, better ROF, smaller package, etc. However, to compare it to a completely different style gun is hard, which is why I used the SNAPbow and +bow as points of comparison.

Also like other people have been saying: Stick with what suits you. (Even though I know this is not a "which gun is best thread" and that's not really what you're asking for.) It's relevant in that if an x-bow suits you perfectly, and it really is the gun for you, to you it may be worth that high price. However, if you're just purchasing it to say, "I have an x-bow," paying such a price is foolish. I got mine via trade, so I was pleased. Now I can go crazy on it and see what I can concoct out if it. Once I'm done and have used it in a war, only then can I give an absolute review on it.
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QUOTE(TxNerfer @ Nov 13 2010, 12:42 PM) View Post

Hey...I got a crazy idea: how about you stop all that sigging stuff? It's not even my thread and it annoys me.


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