17 replies to this topic

[BustaNinja]

Ok, sadly, no writeup or anything, I just had a weird idea like I always go. I was looking at Groove's old Guru, and then after seeing venom use a guru knock off, I have seen that having two back up shots is a good idea, however they are always fired as a shotgun.

I love spring guns. I don't like pumping things, other then my SM1500 or AT2K but thats beside the point. I wanted something that could emulate the performance of the splitfire, but used only springs and a standard SNAP design. I also designed it to be used as a stand alone primary, but that may be easier said then done, seeing as how it would have to be big to get primary ranges. Here is the primary version. Still looking into springs and parts to make the undergun "pistol" thing

Ok, incase you need an explination on how it works, you pull forward on the aluminum rod with the key ring, and it will cock. When you fire, the spring will push the plunger rod toward the rear of the gun, and expel air from the back. If you need more assistance, look at either Carbon, or Galaxy (I think, please correct me if Im wrong)'s thread about the "reverse" plungers. They can explain it better then me.







Simple, yes, but it would make a pleasing integration at a pistol size.

Comments, questions, flames, anything. I am looking for any input I can get on this, and yes, I agree with Langley, google sketchup is a bitch.

Edited by BustaNinja, 15 March 2009 - 10:21 PM.

[Draconis]

I don't remember for sure, but it seems to me that a variation of the L+L plunger could probably produce the kind of range you are looking for.

[BustaNinja]

Draconis, on Mar 15 2009, 08:27 PM, said:

I don't remember for sure, but it seems to me that a variation of the L+L plunger could probably produce the kind of range you are looking for.

For the pistol? Probably, but I work with a bigger width, and it would need to be bigger and more robust, as the L+L requires a catch, and a SNAP has a clothes pin and a nail.

[Jedijoe9]

rork had a almost the exact same thing on "The New Firm". I bet with a couple CPVC tees and elbows, you could do exactly what you are describing by using his design.

[rork]

^Yep. It's quite powerful, too--a full-length version would big and scary, and a 3/4 length might be just the thing. A word of warning: it's hard as hell to prime; you basically have to hold it in both hands and pull it apart.

[Galaxy613]

Techically a Split Fire can fire each barrel independently.. if you put a Ball Bearing inside the CPVC Tee on the back, I bet you could tilt the gun one way or the other to fire only one barrel at a time.. I think that 3D____ guy from Asia who builds his own PVC air guns did that with one of his.

[umpshaplapa]

Galaxy613, on Mar 15 2009, 11:54 PM, said:

Techically a Split Fire can fire each barrel independently.. if you put a Ball Bearing inside the CPVC Tee on the back, I bet you could tilt the gun one way or the other to fire only one barrel at a time.. I think that 3D____ guy from Asia who builds his own PVC air guns did that with one of his.

You would have to put something stopping the ball from rolling into the pressure chamber. Also, I don't think any part of the CPVC tee is wider than the other, except where the three couplings meet. That would mean that the ball bearing would have to be barely larger than the path to one of the barrels, or it would either block both of them, or roll straight into your barrel.

[DJ Mashbot]

You could put a thick o-ring into the coupler where the pipe goes, then insert the pipe behind it, then use a ball bearing inside the coupler with the rings forming a seal. But you would still have to prime it between every shot. Unless you use two plunger chambers, I don't think you could accurately replicate the SF. Regardless, it's a nice compact design for a dual barrel springer.

[xtremejumpy]

I like the Idea, but a small scale only. Like Rork said this would be big and scary. If you were planning primary sized thing with say, even half the strength of a +bow spring, you would get so much kick from the reverse plunger it would be almost impossible to hit anything accurately. Don't point out the stock, I know about that, but you can only do so much. But I love the style of how it fires, I'll say that.

[Carbon]

xtremejumpy, on Mar 16 2009, 10:08 AM, said:

If you were planning primary sized thing with say, even half the strength of a +bow spring, you would get so much kick from the reverse plunger it would be almost impossible to hit anything accurately.

No. My standard spring is strong enough to get ~70% of the range of a +bow, and there's no kick on a reverse plunger setup. The main disadvantage of a stronger spring in a BP (backwards plunger) is that it becomes a serious pain to prime.

[Draconis]

Carbon, on Mar 16 2009, 09:17 AM, said:

xtremejumpy, on Mar 16 2009, 10:08 AM, said:

If you were planning primary sized thing with say, even half the strength of a +bow spring, you would get so much kick from the reverse plunger it would be almost impossible to hit anything accurately.

No. My standard spring is strong enough to get ~70% of the range of a +bow, and there's no kick on a reverse plunger setup. The main disadvantage of a stronger spring in a BP (backwards plunger) is that it becomes a serious pain to prime.

Now, this may be overkill for something intended to be small... But what about using a loop of steel cable or something through the plunger rod? Then just loop it on your foot and pull up? Especially if this is supposed to be slung under the barrel or plunger of the primary.

Edited by Draconis, 16 March 2009 - 01:18 PM.

[BustaNinja]

See, the thing with SNAPs is that you aren't really suppose to cock it by holding onto the handle. In fact, I never do, unless its with my CrossSNAP because I made it to do that. But most of the time you grab the body, and pull the two parts, and it cocks, then you re-grip it. Its a fairly simple idea, and if it were securely attached to the body of a SNAP, then you could just hold that other gun.

Either way, I like the ball bearing idea, but why not just two small ball valves? I mean, sure it would take time, but it would work.

[Galaxy613]

BustaNinja, on Mar 16 2009, 11:08 PM, said:

Either way, I like the ball bearing idea, but why not just two small ball valves? I mean, sure it would take time, but it would work.

And be a HELL alot more bulkier.

[Carbon]

BustaNinja, on Mar 16 2009, 10:08 PM, said:

See, the thing with SNAPs is that you aren't really suppose to cock it by holding onto the handle.

Errwha? This is news to me.

[BustaNinja]

Carbon, on Mar 17 2009, 08:20 PM, said:

BustaNinja, on Mar 16 2009, 10:08 PM, said:

See, the thing with SNAPs is that you aren't really suppose to cock it by holding onto the handle.

Errwha? This is news to me.

I've seen way to many of my handles, Venom's handles and many more separate due to stress. I have since made SNAPs that you can cock while holding the handle, but in the past I have had bad luck and would much rather save my gun then make a faster reload time.

But you are correct, and I am wrong.

[Carbon]

Just Some Bob, on Mar 18 2009, 02:46 AM, said:

I could be wrong, but I don't think the handgrip was taken off intentionally.

Ooh, zing!.

Or should that be, "Oh, SNAP!"?

What I’ve found is that my attachment methods don’t really work for other people, for whatever reason. Reminds me of when I first brought the SNAP-4 to SPANO; sam picked it up, and promptly ripped off the handle (I had not had a problem before that point). Handles break off occasionally, but I don’t seem to have the problem with it that others do. My primary is over two years old, with no issues. I've had more problems with plunger seals wearing out than the handle.

But that's beside the point, because I stand by my statement: you’re supposed to be able to prime a SNAP by holding the handle. If chemical means aren’t working, go and use physical reinforcement: two zip ties in tandem with glue are ugly, but quite effective.

Edited by Carbon, 18 March 2009 - 11:02 AM.

[umpshaplapa]

Carbon, on Mar 18 2009, 11:59 AM, said:

Just Some Bob, on Mar 18 2009, 02:46 AM, said:

I could be wrong, but I don't think the handgrip was taken off intentionally.

Ooh, zing!.

Or should that be, "Oh, SNAP!"?

What I’ve found is that my attachment methods don’t really work for other people, for whatever reason. Reminds me of when I first brought the SNAP-4 to SPANO; sam picked it up, and promptly ripped off the handle (I had not had a problem before that point). Handles break off occasionally, but I don’t seem to have the problem with it that others do. My primary is over two years old, with no issues. I've had more problems with plunger seals wearing out than the handle.

But that's beside the point, because I stand by my statement: you’re supposed to be able to prime a SNAP by holding the handle. If chemical means aren’t working, go and use physical reinforcement: two zip ties in tandem with glue are ugly, but quite effective.

Or screws...

[Carbon]

umpshaplapa, on Mar 18 2009, 03:42 PM, said:

Or screws...

There's lots of ways to approach it. The point being that, if the handle is coming off, attach it using a stronger method.

/hijack