Jump to content


Photo

Ps-800 And The "slide Angel Breech"

Aka - How to make any gun take LS Clips

28 replies to this topic

#1 Split

Split

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,771 posts
  • Location:Hammonton
  • State:New Jersey
  • Country:United States

Posted 28 January 2009 - 09:38 PM

By Splitlip, of course.

Well, I've been talking about this for months. Maybe not on the boards, but the plans to make it were completely finalized in my notebook months ago, and my first mention of it was to Bob over e-mail, 3+ months ago now. Anyway, this is the third version, with many iterations in each version. The second one worked well, but the plastic sheath it relied on exploded after two shots. Coolest thing ever.

Anyway, I present, my 26" minimized Pistol Splat:
Posted Image

So the objectives for this were as follows:
Create a linked breech that accepts Longshot clips (1), doesn't eat darts (2), shotgun loads (3), and can be put on virtually any springer (4).
Side objective: Make it removable.

So for 1 through 3, we already have a perfect solution for that, made by our seemingly most famous contributor - FA's Angel Breech. His goals were to make it take the clips without eating the darts. In the end he realized that it will also shotgun load.

What about putting it on any gun though? Especially on the pistol splat that I am working on. Since the Longshot works in a very specific way, in that the bolt goes back and then forth, to put this breech on any gun would require the part that the bolt is linked to to move back and then forth on a guide.

Simple enough really. Make an Angel Breech (the one used in this mod compliments of Hereticorp, if he even remembers haha), and make a guide out of 15/32" brass. Then something needs to hold the front barrel in place, and to guide the "bolt part" back along. This is where the plastic sheath came in to play before. V3 uses 3/4" pvc, with some very specific cuts though.

As for linking it and making it removable, a polycarbonate piece attached to the "bolt piece" that slides through the pvc, and fitting the PVC into a coupler, attaching the 15/32" brass guide to the same part as the coupler (typically the plunger tube for both).

Enough talk I suppose.
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

This is all the temporary set up, since this is more of a proof of concept mod, rather than one that I would (personally, not my style) wield all day long.
The first picture is the breech open, and the second is it closed.
You can see the polycarbonate piece in these. It's a ring with a 19/32" inside diameter, and an outside diameter just smaller than the inside diameter of the 3/4" pvc. That way, it's tight to the bolt piece, and guided by the pvc. From the ring moving upwards is a 3/8" wide rectangle that fits into the 3/8"h (heavy, means slightly larger) guide in the pvc. Above that is a bigger rectangle to attach the link to.

The last picture is the top view with the breech closed. The breech travels 3" and can chamber a 2" stefan. Clips need to have the tab at the top cut, and need to be modded to take stefans. You can see the guide for the polycarbonate, and that I used the pistol splat's normal breech link as my link.

~~~~~How to make. Warning: Lots of numbers and precision required. ~~~~~
I'm just going to lay it out really.
The angel breech is as follows:
Barrel
9/16 - 12", half pipe starting from one end that lasts for 3". Tightening rings after that.

"Bolt piece"/Closer
19/32 - 5"
9/16 - 1"
17/32 - 7/8"
1/2 - 4 1/8", pinched in one end (done by cutting with pipe cutters)

Guide
1/2 - .5"
15/32 - 3 3/4" + however much is needed to attach to the gun. For the pistol splat, this meant the half of the coupler that I attached to the plunger tube, and a little extra for tolerance. Pinch one end.

The assembly of each is pretty straight forward:
There is none for the barrel.
Closer- Epoxy the 17/32" onto the non-pinched end of the 1/2", with none hanging over. Epoxy the 9/16" over that, and then the 19/32" over that.
Guide - Epoxy the 1/2" onto the non-pinched end of the 15/32". Drill a 1/2" hole into your plunger tube, and insert it. Epoxy/hot glue (in layers for strength if using hot glue) this into place, as straight as possible.

After that, attach your 3/4" pvc (all sch.40) to your plunger tube.

While that's drying, you can make your pvc sheath.
Start with 12" of the pipe. Shave one end to make sure that it slides into the couple smoothly.Mark both 4 1/4" and 7.5" from the shaved end, making the circles go all the way around the pipe. After that, vise the pvc. Now, while looking straight down at it, mark a 3/4" channel across those distances. Dremel the cuts that go the length of the pvc in the path of the radius at that point (basically, go straight down into the line, as opposed to going through the thickness of the pvc). Cut away the rest, leaving only the channel in that section.

Now mark the center of the channel, and extend that line along the length of the pvc. Starting on the side with the shaved end, slightly past (about 1/2") where the channel starts, mark 3/16" from each side of the line. Run these lines back to the end. Mark a line perpendicular to these three, 3" from where the channel starts, still on the side with the shaved end. Cut out the area that you just marked. This will be the guide for the polycarbonate link.

Make your polycarbonate guide here. 1/4"+ thickness works best and lasts the longest. I used 1/8" on my final iteration, and it broke after about 60-70 cycles (yes, I thoroughly test my experiments before they come onto the boards). The specifics are above in this guide.

The next part can only be done once all of the epoxy is dry.

Mark 3/4" from the end on the 15/32"
Place the barrel completely into the closer. Slide the closer over the 15/32", making the end stop at the mark.
Take your polycarb piece, and slip it through the guide spot horizontally, then turn it.
Slide your pvc over the brass setup, making sure the 9/16 and then the 19/32" go through the poly carbonate.

Once the pvc is in the coupler, make sure your closer is still at the mark on the guide brass. Slide the link piece into place, so that its end, that's closer to the barrel tip, lines up with where the channel starts. You may be able to see how it all works. The guide for the link is 3" long, and the breech travel is 3".
The poly carbonate should still be inside of the 3/4" pvc. Epoxy it there.

Holding the closer steadily in place, pull out the barrel. Wrap it in e-tape until it's straight in the pvc. Hot glue it in place.

You should be basically done, except for the linking part. Assemble it all and grab onto the poly carbonate link. You should be able to slide it back and forth and have the breech closer move with it.

To link the breech, find a part that moves 3" and attach the poly carbonate piece to it. This is where Bob got stuck on the pistol splat if I remember correctly. The thing about levers is that the further away from the pivot you are, the higher the travel distance you are on the same radius of movement. This is how they're used to create mechanical advantage. It takes a lot of force to pull the Pistol splat spring straight back for 1", but it takes a lot less force (per inch travel) to do it over 6".

As such, you need to find the distance from your pivot that travels 3". It's somewhere around 2.5", but double check all of your numbers before your start drilling.

If you're really good with this breech, you can just increase the travel of it. Have a gun with a 4" travel? Extend the closer and the guide and the half pipe each by and inch, making the right corrections on the pvc channels, and you can directly link the Angel Breech.

Well. Now that I've talked forever, how about some results.
If you cut the pvc as I described, your clip should be extremely tight:
Posted Image

And here's the beasty in action:
Posted Image
Notice the pull for the breech is 3", while the pistol splat's plunger travels barely over 2". You can keep opening and closing the breech as well. My link was a hair off, so my lever doesn't stay all the way down on its own (rubber bands in first picture solve that).

So, all in all, all goals accomplished. You can see in the first pic that the breech is removed.
Ranges? No clue. They should be normal pistol splat ranges if you seal everything up real nice, minus a little bit from the dead space in the 15/32" and 1/2".

Some quick notes:
The version of the pistol splat I used is the "Predator PR-1000". It has a substantially weaker spring than the PS-800's. It's a bit shorter, and weak enough that I can bend it and compress it (about an inch) with my hands alone.
Posted Image

This breech works best on guns with high volume outputs; a Maxshot would benefit more than the pistol splat.

If you're desperate to link this to something, pulley blocks and gear trains also trade distance for force, so look into those systems.

Thus endeth this first post.
Posted Image
  • 0
Teehee.

#2 Zaxbys

Zaxbys

    Groove's Protégé

  • Members
  • 510 posts
  • Location:Augusta, Georgia

Posted 28 January 2009 - 09:41 PM

Thank you for this sir. I needed something like this for a project.
  • 0
QUOTE
"Bitces be crazy"


QUOTE
"Hey girl... you like water sports?"

~Groove 6/26/09

#3 boom

boom

    Member

  • Banned
  • 209 posts
  • Location:yakima washington

Posted 28 January 2009 - 09:41 PM

Holy shit that is fucking cool.WOW just WOW.Great work.
I'm just the scitzophrenic clusterfuck of randomness that is me.

#4 nerfer34

nerfer34

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,594 posts

Posted 28 January 2009 - 09:47 PM

Wow amazing work.

I began experimenting with putting these clips on guns right when I bought my first LS. But I just completely gave up on it because it was pretty tough.

You really should make a double clip, that way you woulnd't have to keep taking off the clip so constantly. That brass looks like it can easily hold the extra weight too. I 'm really tempted to make one for my maxshot but the only problem is the getting the unique brass sizes.
  • 0
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->God Damn it Groove, you stole my kill.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->-OMC

#5 imaseoulman

imaseoulman

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,005 posts
  • Location:DFW
  • State:Texas
  • Country:United States

Posted 28 January 2009 - 09:48 PM

Very nice. I had actually given up hope on LS clips after I clipped one of my high ROF Blast Bazookas and the thing was terribly unreliable. Maybe it's time to try again. Thanks.
  • 0

#6 ice

ice

    Member

  • Members
  • 895 posts

Posted 28 January 2009 - 09:53 PM

Can you say dead space? Nice work though.
  • 0
<!--quoteo(post=206428:date=Jan 25 2009, 05:17 PM:name=Mukersman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mukersman @ Jan 25 2009, 05:17 PM) View Post</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Turd stefans. When I pulled these out of the pillow case i was just like, what... the... fuck...
Muker
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

#7 nerfer34

nerfer34

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,594 posts

Posted 28 January 2009 - 10:00 PM

Can you say dead space? Nice work though.


Are you serious? There's not much dead space at all. You know in every longshot you modify there is twice the dead space than on this breech. Dead space is everywhere and really can't be completley fixed.
  • 0
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->God Damn it Groove, you stole my kill.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->-OMC

#8 CyberPunkGunner

CyberPunkGunner

    Member

  • Members
  • 79 posts
  • Location:New York City

Posted 28 January 2009 - 10:05 PM

First off: Nice mod. Though some advice for the films, get a tripod so you can properly operate the gun, or atleast not be poking at it. ;-)

Can you say dead space? Nice work though.


Not sure what you mean by dead space, unless you mean all that air that is between the plunger tube and where the magazine is at the breech. But that is ok since that air will be driven though the tube when the plunger fires. Might not be 100% energy conserved, but I fear the person who designs a gun that is.
  • 0
You were born a winner
You were the fastest sperm.

#9 xtremejumpy

xtremejumpy

    Member

  • Members
  • 299 posts
  • Location:Huntsville, AL

Posted 28 January 2009 - 10:12 PM

Seeing the dead space, you may be able to try something like this,

Black Sunshine's post

I know yous works differently due to the clip, but you seem smart, maybe you could get this to work.
You made it this far.
  • 0

#10 Zorns Lemma

Zorns Lemma

    Sir Scrt

  • Moderators
  • 1,277 posts
  • Location:Dulles International Airport
  • State:Virginia
  • Country:United States

Posted 28 January 2009 - 10:19 PM

Can you say dead space?


Looking at the numbers, these are the minimum lengths required for a sturdy slide breech that will accept LS clips. There's definitely less dead space in here than any Angel'd LS, given that the lengths in the Angel Breech must accommodate for the fixed draw of the cocking mech.

Splitlip: Nice work, but it might be easier to use if you elongate the sliding brass functioning as a breech cover, attach it to something that will nest in the 3/4" housing for a "shotgun"-type operating system, as opposed to the polycarb tab you have.

Edited by Zorn's Lemma, 28 January 2009 - 10:23 PM.

  • 0
"In short, the same knowledge that underlies the ability to produce correct judgement is also the knowledge that underlies the ability to recognize correct judgement. To lack the former is to be deficient in the latter."
Kruger and Dunning (1999)

#11 Split

Split

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,771 posts
  • Location:Hammonton
  • State:New Jersey
  • Country:United States

Posted 28 January 2009 - 10:19 PM

Haha. I love the initial explosion of posts. Keep em comin! I love the commentary.

I don't really expect the guys who are just trying to find out what the mod is to read the entire thing, but I addressed every issue I could think of and then some. So if you can find something, I would be more than happy to explain it or whatever the case may be.

I don't plan on taking this much further than it really is right now. I have a few big things in the works that I'm pretty excited about (and Xeorouge keeps yelling at me to get done). A double clip would work and be pretty effective, yeah. If you wanted to make the breech work inverted, you could use a double lever system to change the direction of movement, but you couldn't add an inside seal, meaning darts will get "eaten" and you won't be able to shotgun load. I'm pretty sure that the seal, the accuracy and the extra features out weigh the slight range increase.


Edit: Oh yeah, I will definitely look into a tripod. These last two writeups have really been the only time I've ever screwed around with my camera's record function, but it seems pretty nifty. :) Much easier for explaining things.

Edited by Splitlip, 28 January 2009 - 10:21 PM.

  • 0
Teehee.

#12 Zorns Lemma

Zorns Lemma

    Sir Scrt

  • Moderators
  • 1,277 posts
  • Location:Dulles International Airport
  • State:Virginia
  • Country:United States

Posted 28 January 2009 - 10:24 PM

You seem to have ninja'd my edit that initially started as a spelling correction and turned into commentary.
  • 0
"In short, the same knowledge that underlies the ability to produce correct judgement is also the knowledge that underlies the ability to recognize correct judgement. To lack the former is to be deficient in the latter."
Kruger and Dunning (1999)

#13 mystefansdontflystraight

mystefansdontflystraight

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,176 posts
  • Location:Toronto, Canada

Posted 28 January 2009 - 10:24 PM

Yet another one of my crap pile guns you have turned into a beast, split. My metaphorical hat goes off to you.
Isn't the clip a little far forward though? Wouldn't this really negatively affect ranges?
  • 0
QUOTE(Blacksunshine @ Dec 24 2009, 02:15 PM) View Post

QUOTE(white moonlight @ Dec 23 2009, 01:29 PM) View Post

It's just screaming to be rearloading...

I seen a movie about that once.



#14 Banshee

Banshee

    Member

  • Members
  • 668 posts
  • Location:Chandler, Arizona

Posted 28 January 2009 - 10:56 PM

Is there any way to move the clip closer to the gun and shorten the barrel? Because this thing is pretty beastly but it looks awkward and a tad long...
  • 0
Like my page on Facebook! PM me, I do commissions!

#15 Split

Split

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,771 posts
  • Location:Hammonton
  • State:New Jersey
  • Country:United States

Posted 28 January 2009 - 11:08 PM

Zorn - the objective was for it to be linked, but that's definitely a possibility. Otherwise, how is it easier at all?

msdfs - This is what we've all been talking about. And what I talked about in the original post. The dead space is comparable to that of an angel breeched Longshot. It may seem like a lot, but it's less than a 6" column of air 15/32" in diameter. It's not actually the pvc.

Banshee - Not without sacrificing dart length you can use. If you use 1 or 1/4" darts, you will be able to move the clip back one inch total. Not particularly worth it in most cases. You'll also have to change all of the brass lengths and travel distances and therefore channel lengths. But it can be varied for all intensive purposes, yes.

Like I said, it's more of a proof of concept mod. I don't really want a giant magnum gun, but this way I can show you how it works.
  • 0
Teehee.

#16 Zorns Lemma

Zorns Lemma

    Sir Scrt

  • Moderators
  • 1,277 posts
  • Location:Dulles International Airport
  • State:Virginia
  • Country:United States

Posted 28 January 2009 - 11:22 PM

Edit: disregard.

Edited by Zorn's Lemma, 29 January 2009 - 12:32 AM.

  • 0
"In short, the same knowledge that underlies the ability to produce correct judgement is also the knowledge that underlies the ability to recognize correct judgement. To lack the former is to be deficient in the latter."
Kruger and Dunning (1999)

#17 Foamfoot

Foamfoot

    Member

  • Members
  • 461 posts
  • Location:Seattle, Washington

Posted 28 January 2009 - 11:25 PM

You are a bastard whore who stole my idea.

It looks very nice. You have brought a huge addition to nerfing, I'll give you five years to become a moderator, maybe less.
  • 0
Pro-pants
(Unofficial) Wii thread
QUOTE(Bedhed117 @ Aug 14 2009, 03:49 PM) View Post

Damn it Foamfoot. Why is it that you kill every good topic with a retarded response a few days late.


#18 Echnalaid

Echnalaid

    Member

  • Members
  • 981 posts
  • Location:East Brunswick, NJ

Posted 28 January 2009 - 11:26 PM

How do members get Contributor status? I think Split's perfect for the job.
  • 0
There was something on the bottom of the ad that said erotyka. Sounds like something spicy -Renegademilitia15

#19 Forsaken angel24

Forsaken angel24

    Member

  • Contributors
  • 2,471 posts

Posted 29 January 2009 - 12:01 AM

Very good work my friend.
I love the fact that you incorperated a breech that slides with the lever.
It's like a step forward in Nerf Warfare engineering.

For Badassery I would suggest putting that black tubing stuff around the metal wire.
  • 0
I don't get my kicks out of you,
I don't feel the way I used to do.
I know its bad,
After what we had,
But I’m just not the angel you knew.

#20 Draconis

Draconis

    I am not Lord Draconical

  • Members
  • 2,712 posts
  • NerfHaven Subscription Supporter
  • Location:Salem, Oregon
  • State:Oregon
  • Country:United States
  • u/Parabolictoys on Reddit

Posted 29 January 2009 - 01:28 AM

You are a bastard whore who stole my idea.

It looks very nice. You have brought a huge addition to nerfing, I'll give you five years to become a moderator, maybe less.


That keeps happening to ME, too. I must concur that it is time for a new round of members to be made contributors, and Split should be one.

Another excellent modification that can be applied to so many blasters, it's not even funny. I am just hoping that I can come up with something as impressive as this someday.
  • 0
[15:51] <+Noodle> titties
[15:51] <+Rhadamanthys> titties
[15:51] <+jakejagan> titties
[15:51] <+Lucian> boobs
[15:51] <+Gears> titties
[15:51] <@Draconis> Titties.
[15:52] <+Noodle> why is this so hard?

#21 hereticorp

hereticorp

    Member

  • Members
  • 621 posts

Posted 29 January 2009 - 08:26 AM

Simple enough really. Make an Angel Breech (the one used in this mod compliments of Hereticorp, if he even remembers haha)


Heh, mister secrets. I was wondering what you were going to do with that thing. Now you've got me thinking.
  • 0

#22 balisticjoe

balisticjoe

    Member

  • Members
  • 311 posts

Posted 29 January 2009 - 05:55 PM

But that is ok since that air will be driven though the tube when the plunger fires. Might not be 100% energy conserved, but I fear the person who designs a gun that is.

I take this as a challenge. Nice work splitlip. Here's for more to come.
  • 0
There Are No Stupid Questions, But There Are A Lot Of Inquisitive Idiots.

#23 Ner Commando

Ner Commando

    Member

  • Members
  • 118 posts
  • Location:New Jersey
  • State:New Jersey
  • Country:United States

Posted 29 January 2009 - 06:04 PM

Finally, I've been waiting for someone to do this.
  • 0

#24 bunchiemaster

bunchiemaster

    Member

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 29 January 2009 - 06:33 PM

Thanks! I needed that for my Titan.

Edited by bunchiemaster, 29 January 2009 - 06:33 PM.

  • 0

#25 Surrendermonkey

Surrendermonkey

    Member

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 29 January 2009 - 06:58 PM

By Splitlip, of course.

Posted Image



So I recognize that little $30 POS Walmart paintball marker creeping into the left side of the shot. I bought the exact same model a couple of years ago with the intention of making a CO2 powered Nerf loser rifle but it shot too hard (leaving nice welts and obliterating the dart in the process). I couldn't regulate the output so it got shelved...

I mention this because I was thinking about revisiting it soon, and was wondering if you had similar intentions for yours :-)

I'm sorry if this post is a bit off topic.

Edited by Surrendermonkey, 29 January 2009 - 06:59 PM.

  • 0
yeah...


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users