Edited by Heedfulkiller, 28 January 2009 - 10:57 PM.
#1
Posted 28 January 2009 - 08:54 PM
my little brother explaining a small dinosaur
"I BUILT A TACO, A METAL TACO!"
another quote from my little brother
#2
Posted 28 January 2009 - 09:02 PM
More power=quicker air release.
quicker air release=higher dart velocity.
Present your evidence before you go making claims.
EDIT: JSB, I believe you mean static friction vs. kinetic friction
Edited by Wes7143, 28 January 2009 - 09:03 PM.
If at first you don't succeed, add more epoxy.
#3
Posted 28 January 2009 - 09:03 PM
That's about it. And thanks Angela who helped me with these pictures.. It looks huge in her hands.
HOLY CRAP!
FU ALL
#4
Posted 28 January 2009 - 09:04 PM
Edited by Demo tay26, 28 January 2009 - 09:07 PM.
#5
Posted 28 January 2009 - 09:12 PM
Wes you're right, but if you have way too much power, like a ludicrous amount, the darts velocity would quickly fizzle out because it is goiong so fast. It's like an airgun to a springer, airgun darts drop quickly but springer darts slowly fall to the ground.
#6
Posted 28 January 2009 - 09:17 PM
#7
Posted 28 January 2009 - 09:18 PM
EDIT: JSB, I believe you mean static friction vs. kinetic friction
Dynamics is the study of moving objects, so dynamic friction is probably an acceptable term since kinetic friction is the friction generated when objects are moved.
SGM's Shred Shop -Mod Service
NerfHaven's resident drama queen.
#8
Posted 28 January 2009 - 09:58 PM
You don't need take our word - go out and try it, and see with your own eyes what a difference a stronger spring will make.I've studied intensively what spring adding does to help the gun...
No, you need the flowrate of the air to be higher, not the volume.If you want more power you need more cubic centimeters of air to go through the chamber
#9
Posted 28 January 2009 - 10:15 PM
I've studied intensively what spring adding does to help the gun...Nothing! If you want more power you need more cubic centimeters of air to go through the chamber and adding springs don't do that, it just makes it harder to prime
Lolwut?
You mean that we've all been wrong all this time!? And the reason my spring added longshot goes farther then it did without the spring added is because somehow by adding the spring I increased the cubic centimeters of air going through the chamber? SWEET! I'm pro.
Note people he did say intensively, he could mean that he just went around and asked his friends in preschool if adding springs could make the dart shoot farther.
Your on the right track the right track though; A larger plunger tube is good but there is many factors to why the dart goes farther, and one just happens to be that the faster the air is released the more time it has to build a larger amount of pressure behind the dart to send it out faster.
I know you expected to be praised for finding out something so groundbreaking but.....maybe do extensive research instead of Intensive
Since you're too young to get a hotel, you should look around, maybe check some aim chatrooms.
Theres alot of really friendly, nice people out there, that'd be more than willing to accomodate a young boy.
#10
Posted 28 January 2009 - 10:26 PM
Generally, for "large" objects, when you double the velocity of that object, the air resistance is squared.Wes you're right, but if you have way too much power, like a ludicrous amount, the darts velocity would quickly fizzle out because it is goiong so fast. It's like an airgun to a springer, airgun darts drop quickly but springer darts slowly fall to the ground.
#11
Posted 28 January 2009 - 10:54 PM
No. Your missing the point its the exact same amount of air leaving the chamber if there is 150 cubic centimeters leaving the chamber, if you add a spring there will be the same amount of air going through.More springs=more power.
More power=quicker air release.
quicker air release=higher dart velocity.
And Just Some Bob: sorry about my vocabulary.
my little brother explaining a small dinosaur
"I BUILT A TACO, A METAL TACO!"
another quote from my little brother
#12
Posted 28 January 2009 - 11:06 PM
<a href="http://nerfhaven.com...howtopic=20409" target="_blank">Make it pump-action</a>
#13
Posted 28 January 2009 - 11:36 PM
Another thing, the spring will go from point A to point B in the same time, as long as the spring is as long or longer then the plunger tube, it will be the same speed.You don't get the (extremely basic) physics of spring guns, at all. Essentially, the plunger/barrel acts as a valve, with the dart forming the seal. The spring/plunger compresses the air behind the dart, and the compressed air shoves the dart out of the barrel. The faster the plunger stroke, the more the air column is compressed before the dart "breaks loose" and relieves the pressure. The higher the pressure, the faster the dart will be going. (This is also why springers like tight barrels.) Volume is only part of the problem.
Edited by Heedfulkiller, 29 January 2009 - 12:03 AM.
my little brother explaining a small dinosaur
"I BUILT A TACO, A METAL TACO!"
another quote from my little brother
#14
Posted 28 January 2009 - 11:44 PM
Springs exert a force upon compression. The plunger head has a surface area.
Pressure = Force x Cross-sectional Area
So putting in a stronger spring is like pumping an air gun more. But what about the plunger tube?
Energy \alpha* Pressure x Volume
Therefore, stronger spring => higher pressure => more energy => dart exits with higher velocity.
*is proportional to. I am unfortunate enough to speak LaTeX fluently.
Edited by Zorn's Lemma, 28 January 2009 - 11:45 PM.
Kruger and Dunning (1999)
#15
Posted 28 January 2009 - 11:49 PM
#16
Posted 28 January 2009 - 11:52 PM
The air volume doesn't matter much
Not true.
Compare the UrukHai bow (the compound-bow style one the massive plunger tube) to a SMDTG. One shoots a lot farther with a lot less effort.
Kruger and Dunning (1999)
#17
Posted 29 January 2009 - 12:02 AM
Finally a formula I can use. Thank you! a scientific argument.The physics of a spring-powered Nerf gun:
Springs exert a force upon compression. The plunger head has a surface area.
Pressure = Force x Cross-sectional Area
So putting in a stronger spring is like pumping an air gun more. But what about the plunger tube?
Energy \alpha* Pressure x Volume
Therefore, stronger spring => higher pressure => more energy => dart exits with higher velocity.
*is proportional to. I am unfortunate enough to speak LaTeX fluently.
my little brother explaining a small dinosaur
"I BUILT A TACO, A METAL TACO!"
another quote from my little brother
#18
Posted 29 January 2009 - 12:03 AM
If you still don't understand, oh well. It's your loss when you get picked off at 50 feet by someone with a nitefinder.
You'll do a lot better if you spread the lips with the front. Trying to wriggle the back in there first seems a bit counterintuitive.
RSCBow
#19
Posted 29 January 2009 - 01:10 AM
Heedfulkiller, you need to quit now before you look like a bigger idiot than you already do. I would be happy to explain everything to you over PM or email, AIM, whatever. Just stop with the ruckus, mmkay?
[15:51] <+Rhadamanthys> titties
[15:51] <+jakejagan> titties
[15:51] <+Lucian> boobs
[15:51] <+Gears> titties
[15:51] <@Draconis> Titties.
[15:52] <+Noodle> why is this so hard?
#20
Posted 29 January 2009 - 12:32 PM
Now, to why this applies.
As the springs move the plunger forward, air is moved with it to push the dart. If this air is moving more quickly, the dart will move more quickly. Every action, right?
So, in essence, what has been said multiple times as of yet: More springs => More speed (CCs of Air per second) => more dart speed.
A bigger plunger will help, as will removing obstacles, like air restrictors.
(I forgot to take a picture of my own poppers)
Every size rod you could ever want.
#21
Posted 29 January 2009 - 07:34 PM
And Draconis: the Portland Public School district is in the TOILET.
my little brother explaining a small dinosaur
"I BUILT A TACO, A METAL TACO!"
another quote from my little brother
#22
Posted 01 February 2009 - 12:57 AM
The air volume doesn't matter much
Not true.
Compare the UrukHai bow (the compound-bow style one the massive plunger tube) to a SMDTG. One shoots a lot farther with a lot less effort.
You took that WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY out of context, I said a SLIGHTLY smaller(BBB and LS, AT2K & AT3K kind of thing.) volume of air moving faster produces more pressure than a slow-moving slightly larger volume of air. And an SMDTG has tiny tanks, and an Uruk-Hai bow puts out a ridiculous amount of air. So, that argument blew up in your face. It is the reason that a 2K shoots farther than a 3K.
#23
Posted 01 February 2009 - 01:34 AM
Furthermore, you argument doesn't even make sense regarding air guns, because those are powered by tanks already at a fixed pressure, rather than pressure buildup by a moving piston (plunger head). The physics between a spring gun and an air gun are similar only in that they use air to push out the dart.
Kruger and Dunning (1999)
#24
Posted 01 February 2009 - 01:42 AM
Acceleration = force รท mass
The larger the mass, the larger the force must be to get the same acceleration.
Acceleration is one of the biggest factors in range, because the plunger only has a very short time to push as much air as it can behind the dart before it leaves the barrel.
This is why the +bow gets such good ranges. It uses a very light plunger, like most stock guns.
Now, the relevance to this thread is this: The volume is not the issue. It is the weight of the plunger.
This guy can see the future!
hasbro in a nerf war!!!!! dude the will cancel it and confinscate are guns
#25
Posted 01 February 2009 - 03:22 PM
This is why the +bow gets such good ranges. It uses a very light plunger, like most stock guns.
Now, the relevance to this thread is this: The volume is not the issue. It is the weight of the plunger.
But that is NOT everything. Plunger mass affects how quickly the pressure builds, and ultimately the peak pressure. Pressure is also affected by the the volume, based largely on the area of the plunger head and the stroke length. The longer the stroke, the greater the peak pressure, but the slower the build.
[15:51] <+Rhadamanthys> titties
[15:51] <+jakejagan> titties
[15:51] <+Lucian> boobs
[15:51] <+Gears> titties
[15:51] <@Draconis> Titties.
[15:52] <+Noodle> why is this so hard?
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