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New Type Of Spring

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#1 veginator

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 08:18 PM

This past christmas I got a new Vurtego air spring pogo stick, and after about three hours of hopping several feet in the air I wondered to myself if this could be applied to nerf. I got my answer soon enough.
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Coming out the back of my shotty is a cutdown magstrike pump with improved seal and schrader valve. One might ask why the need of the improved seal. The answer is that the air spring is primed at about 20 psi and when fully compressed can reach close to 80psi which would blow out the flimsy o-ring that came with the pump.
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As you can see the spring works by pushing against the shotty plunger rod.

Unfourtunately this design failed because:
1)The friction between the pump head and the pump tube was so great that at lower pressures(the only time I could prime the gun)the spring would stop halfway
2)The spring was not easily recreated
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#2 Lt Stefan

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 08:28 PM

That's a cool experiment. I imagine if you have an extension spring also pulling on it that would overcome friction and make it work better.
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#3 veginator

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 08:30 PM

If you want to use an extension spring why not attach it directly to the plunger rod?

Edited by veginator, 21 January 2009 - 08:31 PM.

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#4 CaptainSlug

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 08:33 PM

Due to friction and mass an air cylinder isn't going to be able to accelerate your plunger head fast enough to fire a dart effectively.
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#5 veginator

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 08:37 PM

When I built it I meant for it to be used in conjunction with the stock spring so I could adjust the power of the gun given the situation.
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#6 Lt Stefan

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 08:46 PM

If your going to use the springs with it also, it will probably accelerate slower than the springs, rendering it useless.

Edited by Lt. Stefan, 21 January 2009 - 08:46 PM.

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#7 veginator

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 08:49 PM

If your going to use the springs with it also, it will probably accelerate slower than the springs, rendering it useless.

If I could make another one with less friction it would accelerate at close to the same speed as the spring.
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#8 Split

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 10:27 PM

As the cylinder actuated by the air moves forward though, the force exerted rapidly decreases as the volume behind it increases (same volume of air in a bigger container), whereas in a spring, the force is (ideally) constant.

Edit: I'll try this next part again.
Also, it may not entirely be the fault of the friction (you did lube it though right?), but the fluid dynamics from the air cylinder.
The gun needs to build up pressure behind the dart, and the pressure will equalize in each chamber. It would be a hard exact equilibrium to find without calculus, since the dart may or may not be accelerated, thereby increasing the volume, among other factors. Basically though, 1ci at 80 psi, and then the whole volume of the gun's plunger tube at atmospheric pressure will equalize somewhere above what I suspect your pre-primed, pressurized air column is at. This would slow the moving pump shaft if the dart has not left the barrel yet. If it has, then this is irrelevant. Just something to keep in mind when working on it though. You'd want a looser dart fit and a barrel too short if anything, just like an air gun.

Very creative idea though.

An air tank on this principal would be pretty cool I think. A couple of pumps that would be a lot easier to do (than taking a normal tank up to 80psi), to get a column up to 20psi, then reducing the container volume to get a greater pressure. Would be an interesting experiment to see how volume and pressure change how the gun works (as in, titan tank at low pressure <?> range than a 2k at a higher pressure).

Edited by Splitlip, 22 January 2009 - 02:47 PM.

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Teehee.

#9 Foamfoot

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 12:11 AM

You put a pogo stick in your PAS? Mad props.
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#10 veginator

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 06:50 AM

Splitlip I don't think you or many other people get what I did. This is not an air cylinder actuated by air coming through the schrader. I first put about 20 psi in the valve and then the pump is extended. When the shaft is pushed back the air compresses and acts like a spring.

Thank you foamfoot but the pogo stick is about 10 times bigger.
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#11 Lt Stefan

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 07:16 AM

This is a great idea and would work well in theory, but in real life outside forces such as friction/ air resistance would keep the design from gaining optimal performance. Also, the only way to get this to work like a spring is that it needs an absolutely perfect seal, like a syringe. This way, the built up pressure has no way to leak out so if the spring does accelerate slower, it keeps up that power and puts to the plunger instead of leaking out and decreasing the pressure.
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#12 veginator

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 05:51 PM

Uh, it is perfect seal how else would I be able to put in air then compress it. The air would just leak out.
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