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The New Firm

It's a good --Ing nerf gun!

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#1 rork

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 01:17 AM

After SENO, I started putting a lot of thought into what I need in a primary. I came up with a bit of a list: First off, Range. It needs to be able to go nose-to-nose with LBBs, BBBBs, etc. In this respect, my SNAPbow held up very well indeed—not in overall range, but in effective, face-to-face range, it was better than good. But that’s only one part of the overall equation. ROF was less than ideal, forcing me to retreat in order to reload, rather than rushing while my opponent reloaded. So some sort of ROF boost was in order. Thirdly, my NF kept bouncing out of my pocket when I ran; an integrated sidearm would solve these problems, plus it would give me a fast follow-up with acceptable range. Finally, the whole thing should be durable enough to be dropped, etc. So, I brainstormed, and finally, had a bit of an evilgasm. The result, I give to you now: The New Firm.
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Up top, we have Mr. Tulip, which is a SNAPbow. But this is far from a standard SNAPbow. The back is a 1” plug, fitted halfway into a 12” pressure chamber. There are 8 vent holes cut around the edge.
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I used 3/8” screws on the rear, to avoid binding with the spring. The other big difference is the turret. It’s a big ol’ Bobafan, built around a short 1 ½’ coupler. The 1’ cpvc barrels are fitted into short pvc stubs, and the cpvc axle fits into an elbow, which has been plugged and fitted into the top of a tee.
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The bobafan turret is inverted, leaving room for an integration on the bottom of the blaster. The biggest improvement is the plunger rod: ¼” PEX, with a 3/8” OD. On its own, PEX would probably be too soft to be durable. So I filled the last inch on both ends with epoxy putty, and drilled through that. Works great, and it has just the right amount of flex. Plus, it’s cheap: about $3 for 10’.
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On bottom, Mr. Pin. It’s half a SNAPbow, set up backwards like a SNAP 4. I made a 3-barrel speedloader for it. It hits hard, and the PC makes a nice foregrip. Even apart from the integration, it would make a damn good sidearm. It’s built like the main gun, but I only added 4 vent holes. The plunger tube is 7” long. The barrel is shifted to the left side. If you didn’t want to integrate it, it could be rotated back up to the top. Both guns’ triggers are reinforced with weak compression springs.
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EDIT: What does the name refer to? I shall consider anyone who PMs me the answer a person of discriminating taste and sensibility.

Edited by rork, 17 January 2009 - 02:15 AM.

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#2 bobafan

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 01:45 AM

Very nice.
This setup is similar to one of the things I am working on, but with modified blasters instead of homemade.
Is there any particular reason you are using a pvc coupler instead of cpvc?
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#3 Mr BadWrench

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 01:57 AM

Boba, I use pvc as couplers for a lot of my guns... its easier to roll the turret if it don't stick in the coupler.


Ive never been so confused about a gun..... can you run with that? is it really as big as it looks? that turret is REALLY nice....


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#4 rork

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 02:07 AM

Bobafan: The pvc coupler offers more support for the (considerable) weight of the turret.
MrBadWrench: It is quite adult-sized. That being said, I don't have any problems handling it. It's not for the fainthearted, though; lots of people have trouble even priming a SNAPbow in the first place. To give you a sense of scale, the barrels are a hair over a foot long.
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#5 Icespartan 1114

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 09:04 AM

How front heavy is it? It seems rather cumbersome to use. But very creative, nice work.
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QUOTE(Zaxbys @ Mar 2 2009, 02:08 PM) View Post
I won't be there til about 1-2...

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#6 DJ Mashbot

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 09:11 AM

Very nice. Integrating the sidearm with a back-facing plunger is brilliant. Is the turret awkward to operate with the sidearm primed?
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QUOTE(dizzyduck @ Apr 1 2009, 09:14 PM) View Post

Forget about ranges; range means nothing if your blaster is a giant rattle after three shots.

#7 Daniel Beaver

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 09:29 AM

How are you sealing the T coupler on the front? Did you fill the leg of the T with hot glue or something?
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#8 Mepain

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 10:00 AM

<insert nerdgasm here>

That thing is sexy. First thought after seeing the first picture: "What?".
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#9 sputnik

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 10:45 AM

Any chance of a video?
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#10 mystefansdontflystraight

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 11:14 AM

Me likes it. I can't see myself using this though. I think it would be really cumbersome and insanely front heavy. I would fill the stock with some kind of weight to balance it out. A heavy gun wouldn't bother me, but a front heavy one would make me shoot low, especially with the integration. Then again, I hate turrets, so my speedloader on my xbow is more than enough.
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QUOTE(Blacksunshine @ Dec 24 2009, 02:15 PM)  

QUOTE(white moonlight @ Dec 23 2009, 01:29 PM)  

It's just screaming to be rearloading...

I seen a movie about that once.



#11 Kyrativ

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 11:36 AM

wow, this thing has just changed my feelings for you rork. I've always thought the SNAPbow as a cheap rip off of two other peoples designs...Then you make this contraption with a turret and I must say that it looks really good, I also like the gun underneath. What's the air output like on the little one, could you maybe make it double barreled?

Edit: It needs a paintjob, with a good one it would really make it alot more clean and tidy then the white/beige mix of plastic right now

Edited by Kyrativ, 17 January 2009 - 11:38 AM.

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#12 analogkid

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 01:11 PM

Spectacular. Absolutely spectacular. It really has that "WTF!" factor too, which I am a big fan of. I had to read the explanation twice to figure it out.

On the other side, how much does that weigh? My little snap pistol with 1.25" PVC body is fairly heavy, I imagine that weighs a ton. Of course, it doesn't really matter if you can handle it, not trying to take away from the amazingness of this.
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#13 rork

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 01:57 PM

How front heavy is it? It seems rather cumbersome to use. But very creative, nice work.

It's pretty heavy, but plastic is light enough that it doesn't really matter; I don't have noodle arms.

Very nice. Integrating the sidearm with a back-facing plunger is brilliant. Is the turret awkward to operate with the sidearm primed?

It solves a ton of problems. And no.

How are you sealing the T coupler on the front? Did you fill the leg of the T with hot glue or something?

I sprayed some silicon lube on a board, put a stub of cpvc on it, then filled it with hot glue. Instant plug. The plug went in a cpvc elbow, which was screwed down and sealed with a bit more hot glue as a sort of crude gasket.

<insert nerdgasm here>

That thing is sexy. First thought after seeing the first picture: "What?".

Hehehe.

Any chance of a video?

No, sorry. Its pretty straightforward, though; the whole thing is absolutely built in accordance with the KISS principle. It took me 3 evenings of pretty steady work to complete: 1 for the SNAPbow, 1 for the turret assembly, and another for the sidearm, troubleshooting, and integration.

Me likes it. I can't see myself using this though. I think it would be really cumbersome and insanely front heavy. I would fill the stock with some kind of weight to balance it out. A heavy gun wouldn't bother me, but a front heavy one would make me shoot low, especially with the integration. Then again, I hate turrets, so my speedloader on my xbow is more than enough.

Well, it's user-dependent. The weight is fine for me. Other people might find it awkward. It's actually much easier to shoot accurately than a non-turreted SNAPbow, as I can just sight over the turret.

wow, this thing has just changed my feelings for you rork. I've always thought the SNAPbow as a cheap rip off of two other peoples designs...Then you make this contraption with a turret and I must say that it looks really good, I also like the gun underneath. What's the air output like on the little one, could you maybe make it double barreled?

Edit: It needs a paintjob, with a good one it would really make it alot more clean and tidy then the white/beige mix of plastic right now

Um... Ok. I actually thought about doing a double barrel (it works), but this thing is quite powerful, so I decided to single it. I'm iffy on paint. This was designed to be a beater, something that I wouldn't mind tossing around, so tidiness really wasn't a concern. I am considering painting it, though.

Spectacular. Absolutely spectacular. It really has that "WTF!" factor too, which I am a big fan of. I had to read the explanation twice to figure it out.

On the other side, how much does that weigh? My little snap pistol with 1.25" PVC body is fairly heavy, I imagine that weighs a ton. Of course, it doesn't really matter if you can handle it, not trying to take away from the amazingness of this.

Thanks. I agree; no one's going to have anything exactly like it, that's for sure.
It makes any production nerf gun seem...insubstantial. I rather like it.
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#14 BustaNinja

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 01:37 AM

Very nice.
This setup is similar to one of the things I am working on, but with modified blasters instead of homemade.
Is there any particular reason you are using a pvc coupler instead of cpvc?

Not only that, but with nested barrels its the Norm.

I like it. Alot.

Today at Minnesnowta, the nail on my clothespin came out. What did you use to keep it in place? I used gorrila glue, and in the cold it just gave. It was promptly fixed, but I am still wondering.
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#15 rork

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 01:43 AM

Thanks. I use hot glue to attach the pin to the PC; it clings to wood clothespins VERY well. I drill the hole, put the pin through, glue the angle bracket over the head of the nail, then hold the bracket down with 2 small cable ties.

EDIT: I can't believe no one's gotten the reference yet. To make it easy for you: the book it's from is by Terry Pratchett--recently Sir Terry Pratchett. Huzzah!

Edited by rork, 18 January 2009 - 01:48 AM.

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#16 Carbon

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 09:28 AM

Thanks. I use hot glue to attach the pin to the PC; it clings to wood clothespins VERY well. I drill the hole, put the pin through, glue the angle bracket over the head of the nail, then hold the bracket down with 2 small cable ties.

Personally, I've found that gluing the nail to the clothespin isn't really necessary. I wrap some etape around the part of the angle bracket that sits on the clothespin (covers the hole, and gives the zipties something to bite into), put the nail in the hole, and then ziptie the bracket on. It helps with disassembly if needed, and I've never had a nail come out.
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#17 BustaNinja

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 10:12 AM

Thanks. I use hot glue to attach the pin to the PC; it clings to wood clothespins VERY well. I drill the hole, put the pin through, glue the angle bracket over the head of the nail, then hold the bracket down with 2 small cable ties.

Personally, I've found that gluing the nail to the clothespin isn't really necessary. I wrap some etape around the part of the angle bracket that sits on the clothespin (covers the hole, and gives the zipties something to bite into), put the nail in the hole, and then ziptie the bracket on. It helps with disassembly if needed, and I've never had a nail come out.

I'll try that. Turns out just the nai came out of my SNAP
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#18 minsc

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 03:29 PM

My God. Well, I suppose if you need enough firepower to buttfuck a small nation, this is the right gun for you.

Since no one has asked yet, I know the top SNAP has normal ranges, but what are the ranges on the 1/2 Snap?
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QUOTE(Zorn's Lemma @ Jul 25 2010, 12:18 AM) View Post

You'll do a lot better if you spread the lips with the front. Trying to wriggle the back in there first seems a bit counterintuitive.

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#19 rork

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 03:38 PM

The top SNAPbow should have better than normal ranges, due to the lighter plunger; at 7' or so, it put a stefan through 2 layers of tough cardboard. The bottom one I don't know about, beyond the fact that it shoots harder than my modded NFs, and hurts like a mofo to get point blanked with by one's girlfriend. It's plenty for its purpose. As for firepower, meh. It's more a matter of not having to reload until I'm ready than anything. It's designed as a gun to be cautiously aggressive with.

Carbon: Yeah, my triggers are a tad overbuilt, but I'm scared that the angle bracket could slip out from under the cable ties. Has this ever happened to you?
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#20 boom

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 04:16 PM

That thing is definetly a cluster fuck of cool.
I'm just the scitzophrenic clusterfuck of randomness that is me.

#21 Carbon

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 04:47 PM

Carbon: Yeah, my triggers are a tad overbuilt, but I'm scared that the angle bracket could slip out from under the cable ties. Has this ever happened to you?

It's never slipped out, I think partially because of where I put the ties. I zip one right at the bend, and feed it through the spring of the clothespin. This reinforces the pivot effect of the clothespin and the angle iron. The front ziptie is gripping onto etape, so there's additional friction helping to keep it from slipping backwards.
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#22 Arconious

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 05:24 PM

I really want one. Seriously.

Hell, I doubt it will be that awkward for me, by the sounds of it, I'm a similar size to you, and you find it comfortable.
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#23 venom213

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 09:27 PM

This gun has interested me very much. It has inspired me to start designing my own version of this, with a few tweaks and function changes. I also received my +bow springs from McMaster recently. Just tonight I thought of some new turret designs, I will probably publish them once I make a prototype.
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#24 rork

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 09:30 PM

Yeah, the basic setup is really nice. I've been playing around with it with a regular old flip breech, instead of the turret, and even without the ridiculous ammo capacity, it's pretty deadly.
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#25 A side of nerf

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 09:34 PM

and even without the ridiculous ammo capacity, it's pretty deadly.

Are you bringing this to the tune-up war if you come?
Dang, now I gotta build a turret. :D

Edited by A side of nerf, 21 January 2009 - 09:35 PM.

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