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Nerf Cs-6 Recon Barrel Volume Vs "bladder" Volume


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#1 ShadowTank

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 03:21 AM

Maybe I misunderstand the physics involved but if the volume of the barrel is more than the amount of air being pushed through the barrel from the "bladder" when you recock the Nerf CS-6 Recon, then wouldn't there be a vaccum as there is less air than needed to push the dart out of the barrel? Or is that why the barrel is so much wider in dia. than the darts? I just bought a reeming tool to reem out a 1/2" CPVC Pipe so that the standard streamline nerf dart can go down the barrel without restriciton, which basically reduces the dia. of the barrel, but before i do that, i'm concerned a vacuum will actually form, causing the dart to fire a shorter distance than if i leave the barrel alone. Has anyone reduced the barrel length to match the size of the bladder? i like for "form factor" of the CS-6 Recon (it looks similar too a storm trooper rifle once it's painted black!) and I'm modifying the "slider" to recock the main spring so it's located similar to a real shot gun underneath the barrel, so shortenign the barrel will cause problems for that. I've done a search for mods on this gun, and haven't found anything posted thus far that answers this question. There are some excellent mods already posted, and thanks to all who have taken the time to post them. Though I am going to go a slightly different route to modify mine, they have given me excellent ideas!! Any thoughts? Thanks!!

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#2 bobafan

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 03:43 AM

If you mean the barrel accessory, it isn't really a barrel. It is a worthless tube that if anything decreases the range because the dart bounces against the sides.

You don't need to deal with a vacuum in the plunger tube until you have a good seal with the plunger head and some other parts. This doesn't happen in recons unless you made an angel breach and sealed it all up.

The ideal barrel legnth depends on more than the volume of air going through it. I think boltsniper made a guide, but I haven't seen it.

I don't know how this looks like any blaster used by stormtroopers. It looks nothing like the BlasTech E-11 which is the most common. Maybe the DLT-20A but that is quite a stretch.
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#3 ShadowTank

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 03:56 AM

>>>If you mean the barrel accessory, it isn't really a barrel. It is a worthless tube that if anything decreases the range because the dart bounces against the sides.

That is why I am inserting the CPVC pipe so that it acts more like a barrel, hence the reason why I am asking about air volume.

>>>You don't need to deal with a vacuum in the plunger tube until you have a good seal with the plunger head and some other parts. This doesn't happen in recons unless you made an angel breach and sealed it all up.

That's the plan. The piece that slides back and forth (I will call it the bolt - but if i should call it something else please correct me. I've been moding nerf guns for years, but never learned the proper terminology of the various parts of the gun) instead of the dart being seated in that tube that slides, I am filling that tube so that as you slide the bolt forward it pushes the dart forward into the "new" barrel. Not sure how well it will work, but if successful, i wil ltry to post it here.

>>>The ideal barrel legnth depends on more than the volume of air going through it. I think boltsniper made a guide, but I haven't seen it.

I thought I saw something concernign this in the past somewhere, but I can't find it! *sigh* IF anyone has a link to it, I would greatly apprecaite it. I will continue try finding it using the search engine but i'm lousy at using it. Maybe i am putting in too many criteria to search. Oh well.


>>>I don't know how this looks like any blaster used by stormtroopers. It looks nothing like the BlasTech E-11 which is the most common. Maybe the DLT-20A but that is quite a stretch.

You are correct, up close it doesn't look anything like it. But from say 20-30' away it sort of does. OK, I admit, it's a stretch, i'll admit! guilty as charged! :-X
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#4 The Nerf Devil

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 09:25 AM

Boltsniper's barrel formula I think that's what you are looking for. :)
It is after a few of the CAD images.

Edited by The_Nerf_Devil, 21 December 2008 - 09:26 AM.

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It's funny looking through things you said years ago, you realize how much of an ass you came off as sometimes.

#5 MoonMaster

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 10:09 AM

You do not want to put anything in the faux barrel attachement. It does not seal with the bolt and so anything in it will only contribut to the friction acting on the dart, not the barrel length.
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5. Protip: sarcasm is good for making someone else look like more of an idiot than they already do. However, if you are an idiot to start with, using sarcasm just makes you look like a COLOSSAL idiot.


#6 Bullshit Dragon

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 11:23 AM

You can single the Recon pretty effectively by more or less completely replacing the bolt with CPVC. I did that to mine and I get a fair amount of range out of it. I added an under-slung AT2k to it to make it war worthy and it's pretty Effeminate right now. Can't wait until war season rolls around again.

If you plan on singling your Recon, throw a PM my way, but be warned, I don't have have a cam, so you'll need to do A LOT of reading.
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Gimme back my bullets....

#7 ShadowTank

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 02:28 PM

You do not want to put anything in the faux barrel attachement. It does not seal with the bolt and so anything in it will only contribut to the friction acting on the dart, not the barrel length.


I intend on modifying the bolt so that there is a tight seal (including the use of O Rings) between the bolt and the new liner of the barrel. Also, with the introduction of a inner tube inside the existing one that is the bolt, I will be able to actually extend the length of the bolt, thereby being able to increase the size of the air bladder so that there is even more air available to force the dart out of the barrel, hopefully increasing range. I know it's a "long shot" but i think worth the attempt! I will report on it's progress when there is some. Right now I need to order cutting bits for a laythe to turn down a piece of PVC pipe.
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#8 Blacksunshine

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 03:27 PM

If you mean the barrel accessory, it isn't really a barrel. It is a worthless tube that if anything decreases the range because the dart bounces against the sides.

You don't need to deal with a vacuum in the plunger tube until you have a good seal with the plunger head and some other parts. This doesn't happen in recons unless you made an angel breach and sealed it all up.

The ideal barrel legnth depends on more than the volume of air going through it. I think boltsniper made a guide, but I haven't seen it.

I don't know how this looks like any blaster used by stormtroopers. It looks nothing like the BlasTech E-11 which is the most common. Maybe the DLT-20A but that is quite a stretch.


Even with an angel breach you're not going to get darts to vacuum load. Its a breech. At the point of the cocking the breech is open. No way to make a vacuum at that point. But really with that setup you wouldn't need a vaccum cause you'd basically be rear loading the barrel anyhow and the whole barrel would be functional.

I did a Recon as a commission for a supervisor at my work. He had me do it in white cause he thought it looked like a storm trooper rifle. So yeah its a stretch. Myself I think it looks more like something a storm trooper might use rather then a replica of one they actually used in a movie.

Posted Image

Edited by Blacksunshine, 21 December 2008 - 03:28 PM.

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Forgive my spelling and grammar. I post from my cell phone a lot. Sometimes when I'm on the can at work.

#9 ShadowTank

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 06:18 PM

>>>>Even with an angel breach you're not going to get darts to vacuum load.

I'm not looking to use the Vacuum to load the darts. I'm concerned about a vacuum forming in the barrel while it is being fired if the volume of air needed to push it out of hte barrel is less than the supply of air being provided by he plunger, thereby possibly reducing the effective range of the weapon. Tho by increasing the size of the bladder/plunger, I hope to elimiate this possible problem, but i'm not sure how well that is going to work so i'm trying to plan for all options here.

Nice paint job BTW on that CS-6 Recon!
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#10 Split

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 06:41 PM

>>>>Even with an angel breach you're not going to get darts to vacuum load.

I'm not looking to use the Vacuum to load the darts. I'm concerned about a vacuum forming in the barrel while it is being fired if the volume of air needed to push it out of hte barrel is less than the supply of air being provided by he plunger, thereby possibly reducing the effective range of the weapon. Tho by increasing the size of the bladder/plunger, I hope to elimiate this possible problem, but i'm not sure how well that is going to work so i'm trying to plan for all options here.

Nice paint job BTW on that CS-6 Recon!

I think after reading this thread about a dozen times I can see your concern. I can assure you that it's not a valid one. You're worried that after pressure builds up behind the dart and accelerates it, as the dart travels along, the volume of air (keep in mind, that was pressurized) that pushed the dart would have to be spread out along the increasing distance between the dart and the plunger/tube. This isn't valid because the air is pressurized, and the volume it has to spread out won't come close to going below atmospheric pressure and creating a vacuum before the dart exits the barrel. Interesting phenomenon though. It wouldn't particularly matter in plungers that seal with o-ring or skirt types anyway.
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Teehee.


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