28 replies to this topic

[Langley]

After deciding to organize and host the new NerferWiki over at ProjectNerf, I quickly discovered that these wiki articles don't write themselves, and I can't do all the work myself. I need help from the community, because as much as I don't like to admit it, I don't know every fucking thing there is to know about flinging foam out of purple toys. So every couple of weeks, I'm going to start a new thread and try and get everyone to put their heads together on improving a part of the wiki. This is your chance to tell that idiot goddamn newb what's up. This is the time to stop back-seat modding and start getting your hands dirty and really helping around here. This is the war on stupidity and you are on the front lines. Man up, Motherfucker!

Anyway, due to all the fucking new guys around here, I decided to start off the series with the New Nerfer Handbook. It's supposed to be a primer for new members of the site that explains the important stuff they need to understand so they can get off their ass and nerf. No forums etiquette, no bitching and complaining, overall no bullshit. Just the bare minimum you need to know to get you to your first real NIC nerf war.

The first article in the series, What is Nerf, is some hyped-up piece of garbage I wrote for the main ProjectNerf site and then copy-pasted. I think we can, as a whole, do better. Hit me with some suggestions, or just dive in there and start tearing shit apart. Your call.

The second article is The New Nerfer Guide. I'm pretty happy with it as-is, but I'd like to hear some criticism or praise or something. I don't really know if I'm on the right track here, I haven't been a 'New Nerfer' in like seven or eight years.

The third and as-yet-unwritten article is The Newbie Guide to Darts and Barrels. This is what I really want to focus on. Newbs need to know how to find foam and barrel material that fits together, and make darts, without having to search through pages and pages of forums threads. How do we do this clearly, quickly, and concise......ly?

Last there's the not-yet-begun Quick, Cheap, and Easy Modds guide. Splitlip already wrote a how-to at the LGLF Blog just to be linked to from this article, and frankly I think the Pistol Splat is the ideal newbstick. I think if we get a good simple nightfinder mod on there, and maybe something on the BBB and BBBB, we'll be set. We just need an overview that ties this article in to the dart&barrel article and puts the modifications into retardedly simple terms. Remember, this is supposed to be a first mod for everyone, not a first mod for hardcore modders.

Overall notes: If you don't know anything about Wikis, feel free to write something up here, or even write it in Microsoft Word (Or Open Office Write, for you open source types) and e-mail it to Langley projectnerf com. If you don't intend to write anything, but you have some ideas, share them. This is your wiki too. You have a right to an opinion about how it should grow. Lastly, if you are a total n00b, you can still help. Tell us what you find confusing and we'll try and incorporate the answer to your questions into the article.

Now getting writing bitches!

Edit: This is sort of what I'm looking for for a dart/barrel guide, but updated and simplified. Some actual examples of brands of foam and sources for barrel materials would be good.

Edited by Langley, 14 November 2011 - 02:01 PM.

[Split]

I'm going to be the first to tell you this, but there are way to many factors in dart making, especially combined with the gun modding, to make a "this works and this doesn't" type of thing. As much as I wouldn't enjoy doing it again myself, you really just have to experiment completely on your own to learn what works how and when.

Oh yeah, I'm back from Mexico, Bitches!

Edited by Splitlip, 15 December 2008 - 10:18 PM.

[silentsnipe]

Oh yeah, I'm back from Mexico, Bitches!

I think I just shit my pant's.



This is cool, this helps alot.

[Langley]

I'm going to be the first to tell you this, but there are way to many factors in dart making, especially combined with the gun modding, to make a "this works and this doesn't" type of thing. As much as I wouldn't enjoy doing it again myself, you really just have to experiment completely on your own to learn what works how and when.

Well that's sort of the idea. We don't have to include everything that works or warn against everything that's been tried that doesn't work. We just have to give the newbies some direction, a basic framework to work in, and tell them to experiment from there. Right now all we're telling them to do is use the search function, which isn't really an answer.

[CaptainSlug]

Well, the process is

1. Buy Foam backer rod. Finding a reliable and consistent supplier is vital. 1/2" FBR is highly variable in diameter depending on where you are purchasing it from.
2. Make some sample stefans with it. 10 to 20 to start with will be enough for testing purposes.
3. Borrow, buy, or try different barrel material options either from friends, the hardware store, or try to compare relative to the dimensions of stock darts. Determine whether you need a larger or smaller ID barrel to work with the darts you made versus the stock barrels meant to fit stock darts.
4. You'll have to evaluate a variety of materials and dimensions by measuring the range results of samples of darts fired from each test barrel in order to determine which one gives you the most consistently positive results.

The rest is knowing what barrel options there are. You have plastic pipe (NPS/NPT or CPVC sizes), PETG, brass, copper, aluminum, and crayolas to choose from.

Edited by CaptainSlug, 15 December 2008 - 10:42 PM.

[Langley]

What about using different foam straightening methods to make the same FBR come out to different thicknesses? I hear that some people have had success stretching their foam out a bit for thinner darts and blow-drying their foam or sticking it in a clothes-dryer to get thicker foam. Is this a legit way to handle dart/barrel matching?

[CaptainSlug]

What about using different foam straightening methods to make the same FBR come out to different thicknesses? I hear that some people have had success stretching their foam out a bit for thinner darts and blow-drying their foam or sticking it in a clothes-dryer to get thicker foam. Is this a legit way to handle dart/barrel matching?

I guess, but doing it consistently would be difficult so I personally never bothered trying it.
And for an introductory guide it would probably be best to keep it as simple as possible.

[Split]

It's not consistent, which has proven to be a big problem for me. At Ice's war, my first set of white darts were even thicker than the second batch that Chaz and I used at the Millcreek war. It's because I hung the first batch in 7' lengths, each with 1 D-cell as a weight, for a week or so in decent heat, but then the second batch was shipped to me in 10' lengths, so I did 5' lengths (as to not waste so much [more expensive] foam) with the same weights in a cold and rainy 2 weeks. It's really hard to get it all that consistent. Right now I'm just hanging all of it at once, and I suppose when I run out, I'll just have to keep checking on the size as the days go on to get the best match.

I do encourage anyone who wants to to compile all of the information like this into the article, don't get me wrong. But it's really, to me at least, just a list of the tons of factors that effect every aspect of making stefans.

[Langley]

I do encourage anyone who wants to to compile all of the information like this into the article, don't get me wrong. But it's really, to me at least, just a list of the tons of factors that effect every aspect of making stefans.

Well, like I said, that's a potential article, but not an article for the newbie guide. This is supposed to be what you need to make your first batch of darts if you don't want to show up to your first war empty-handed. If the stretching/puffing method is so inconsistent, then I guess Slug's on the right track with his outline. At some point though, I will be making a more complete dart-making guide with all of the different methods of making darts sorted by category, so you can browse it for new ideas and see if other people are having the same problems with their darts.

Edit: YOU DO NOT NEED TO ASK PERMISSION TO EDIT THE WIKI OR WRITE A NEW ARTICLE. The Wiki is for everyone to use, and anyone can edit it. All you have to do is register a new account and click the 'edit' tab on the article you want to work on. There's a guide right there on the main page that will help you figure out how to make links and format your article, if you need help.

Edited by Langley, 15 December 2008 - 11:33 PM.

[Echnalaid]

Edit- I got it.

Edited by Echnalaid, 16 December 2008 - 12:15 AM.

[Kyrativ]

In my opinion we should not be putting up a BBBB mod for noobs. BBBB's are banned at many more recent wars and a noob needs guns that are easy to modify and can be used at any war they go to, the BBB for example.

[Langley]

Bob's right, the wiki is a collaborative tool. Even if you find out you and another author are working on the same project, you can always merge together the best of your content. That's what the wiki is for, after all.

Kyr, I see you point. There would, at minimum, have to be a note about not plugging the pump on the Blast Bazooka. The problem is that the blast bazooka is frequently available in stores, at relatively low prices, and often in packs of two. BBBs are possibly as common (aren't they a TRU exclusive though?) but they're somewhat more expensive. I'm pretty sure you could get a pair of BBBBs and a pair of Nitefinders for $5 more than what you'd pay for one Big Bad Bow.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that pistolsplats are the ideal newb gun, as they're cheap and easy to mod. But they're not that common in stores. I don't want to alienate anyone who isn't inclined to order a nerf gun online. But you're right, at the very least we should include a disclaimer that says you shouldn't plug the pump on the BBBB and you should run it by the people organizing your local nerf wars to see if it's banned.

Edited by Langley, 16 December 2008 - 11:24 AM.

[Ubermensch]

SHAMELESS PLUG


Seriously, though, people. Let's get this ball rolling, not just with my project, but with everything. As I see it, this wiki will not only become an amazing tool to educate new members, but a community center, where people can discuss projects and articles to edify the NIC. Anyway, please take a look at my project and if you have any questions, comments, or suggestions, write in the Discussion for the article. Thanks!

[mystefansdontflystraight]

I love the line about the bored Canadian being the most dangerous kind. It's true. I got into nerfing when I was bored shitless from having nothing to do over xmas break 2 years ago. Found the NIC, got a MS for xmas. Joined, didn't get validated. Really got into it a year ago.

Kyrativ: I think there should be a mod for the BBBB. It is even simpler than the NF. Chop off existing barrel, just hotglue a coupler to the tank. If it is your standard n00b reading it, they won't figure out how to plug the pump if they are not shown how. Expecially if you instruct them to leave the pump in the housing. The BBBB is a VERY good primary, even unplugged. That is what I gave my friend, before he backed out on going to HbH2. Great beginner gun.

[hereticorp]

I got it started and there is now a huge amount of text on that page.

You guys go and flesh it out.

That's right, you. Go. Do it.

[Puppylayer]

Edited Guide to Making Darts.

-Bon Appetit, and feel free to clarify and change anything questionable.

-P§

[hereticorp]

Edited Guide to Making Darts.

-Bon Appetit, and feel free to clarify and change anything questionable.

-P§

1. Don't fucking sign your shit all the time, on here we know who's posting, your name is RIGHT THERE, and on the Wiki no one cares who wrote it, it's in the edited log if anyone wants to see.

2. You basically duplicated what I wrote in less readable format, so I fixed it.

3. Why the duplicate effort? The page linked in the beginning of this thread is essentially the same thing as what you wrote, but much more detailed. I fixed it because I hate having bad text all over the place, but I think it's pointless.

[Puppylayer]

Edited Guide to Making Darts.

-Bon Appetit, and feel free to clarify and change anything questionable.

-P§

1. Don't sign your shit all the time, on here we know who's posting, your name is RIGHT THERE, and on the Wiki no one cares who wrote it, it's in the edited log if anyone wants to see. Oh, yes, I forgot... I love you so much.

2. You basically duplicated what I wrote in less readable format, so I fixed it.

3. Why the duplicate effort? The page linked in the beginning of this thread is essentially the same thing as what you wrote, but much more detailed. I fixed it because I hate having bad text all over the place, but I think it's pointless... I farted.

I'm So Mature.

Anyways, I wrote my article before reading what langley stated on the nerf wiki, so I didn't know that I had basically genericized his posts. However, I specifically posted in that article so it could be expanded upon, not to be left as-is.

Oh, and I'm so sorry that I didn't read your post on the nerf wiki, which was posted minutes before mine, as I was busy typing up my own short stefan process.
Besides, It's about contributing to help the new members be less fucking retarded, not about us bitching at each other about what is'nt necessary, as long as the contributions made are in their right place.

Oh, and I love the quote edit function.

-P§

Ha.

[Draconis]

...basically genericized his posts....

Genericized is not an English word. I'm reasonably certain that it's not a word in ANY language, but I'm not fluent in Mandarin or Cantonese.

Oh, and I'm so sorry that I didn't read your post on the nerf wiki, which was posted minutes before mine, as I was busy typing up my own short stefan process.
Besides, It's about contributing to help the new members be less fucking retarded, not about us bitching at each other about what is'nt necessary, as long as the contributions made are in their right place.

You should focus on making your own posts less fucking retarded. It's not much of a contribution if everything you write must be edited for clarity and completeness.

[Langley]

Okay, the guide to making darts article was something I originally planned to make, but then decided that it should be a guide to darts *and* barrels instead. I forgot to remove the links to the nonexistent 'Guide to making darts', which invites people who click on it to create the article themselves. That's why we have redundant articles. Sorry about that.

At some point, I'd like to create a more complete dart making guide that pulls in all of the tips from the stickied thread here at NH. This would be less newb-friendly. That dartmaking article is here. Anything useful from the article puppy-slayer created should either be merged into the newbie dart/barrel guide, or the dart construction techniques article I just linked to. At the end of the week, I'll be removing the article and all links to it, as it is somewhat redundant.

Anyway, I'm really happy to see people getting involved. Everyone has done great work so far. Keep it up.

[hereticorp]

I'll be going through and maybe creating some n00b writeups for the simpler guns, AT2K, NF, Mav. We'll see what I feel like doing.

If you have a specific need that you'd like me to look at, feel free to drop a PM, I also do decent editing.

[jwasko]

Just making various recommendations here. Take them or leave them as you wish:

I see that the "New Nerfer Guide" has some general rules for games in it. Perhaps a mention of Gunslinger Heaven is in order.

Looking forward, it would probably be best if every "alternative" game type (Gunslinger Heaven, VIP, HvZ, etc.) gets its own page and then we'll just include a list of links to those pages in the New Nerfer Guide.



Personal recommendation for noob writeups (besides those already mentioned): "shotgunned" Titan and BBBB. They're not that hard to do, and much more accepted than the singled variants.

Also, some Buzz Bee Tek# writeups would be good.

By the way, the BBB is a Target exclusive (you're thinking of the original release, Langley), and I have not seen any in (multiple) Targets for a while. I had to buy one from Dragoon after about a month of hoping for restocks. So, it seems they're somewhat uncommon these days.



As far as the barrel part of the darts-and-barrels guide, I echo Slug's sentiments of a need to say: buy foam and make stefans, then start sticking them in holes ("dirty" joke intended).

Some pictures of the various barrel matrials would be good, especially pointing out the difference between 1/2" CPVC and 1/2" Sch. 40 PVC.



Oh, and I've re-sized FBR consistently. It involved repeatedly heating and stretching an entire 20 feet's worth of dart "blanks" until they had a perfect fit in 9/16" brass. Way too time-consuming, but it worked.

Edited by jwasko, 16 December 2008 - 08:01 PM.

[Langley]

Looking forward, it would probably be best if every "alternative" game type (Gunslinger Heaven, VIP, HvZ, etc.) gets its own page and then we'll just include a list of links to those pages in the New Nerfer Guide.


Personal recommendation for noob writeups (besides those already mentioned): "shotgunned" Titan and BBBB. They're not that hard to do, and much more accepted than the singled variants.

Also, some Buzz Bee Tek# writeups would be good.

Is this a West Coast thing? I've never seen VIP or HvZ at a legit east coast war, and few if any Tek# guns. Also, I've seen shotgun modded guns, and even own one, but they're far from the norm around here. They're mostly a secondary, integration, or alternate gun. I'm not trying to knock your suggestions, if this stuff is common where you nerf then it should go into the wiki. I'm just saying I don't see it much around Jersey.

Some pictures of the various barrel matrials would be good, especially pointing out the difference between 1/2" CPVC and 1/2" Sch. 40 PVC.

Good call. Okay, who wants to go photo-hunting. If anyone can find a good photo of each barrel material (especially with some context suggesting where you might find it in the store) I'll upload it. You need admin privileges right now to upload images.

Oh, and I've re-sized FBR consistently. It involved repeatedly heating and stretching an entire 20 feet's worth of dart "blanks" until they had a perfect fit in 9/16" brass. Way too time-consuming, but it worked.

Like you said, way to time consuming. If it was quick, easy, and consistent, it would be good for the noob article.

If it were up to me, I would let this thread die. An open, general call for volunteers is (in my opinion) a mistake.

It's not an open, general call. I'm trying to organize a group effort to improve a specific part of the wiki, get people who aren't going to contribute directly to the wiki to at least throw in their two cents.

[jwasko]

Is this a West Coast thing? I've never seen VIP or HvZ at a legit east coast war, and few if any Tek# guns. Also, I've seen shotgun modded guns, and even own one, but they're far from the norm around here. They're mostly a secondary, integration, or alternate gun. I'm not trying to knock your suggestions, if this stuff is common where you nerf then it should go into the wiki. I'm just saying I don't see it much around Jersey.

Did you just imply that I'm West Coast? I think I'm mildly insulted... (kidding, in case anyone can't tell)

Anyway, I believe that the Minnesota guys have played VIP and a variant of VIP that involved zombies. And rork wrote an idea for a short-term HvZ game. But, really, I was just spitting out names of game types I have heard of.

As far as Tek# guns and shotgun mods: I attended the May 2008 DCNO (and I think you did as well...at least, I thought that was you) and both were represented: Lionhead/Azlan had a shotgun Titan (with integrated 2k and a poor, cut-up Manta shield), and a fellow member of Steel City Nerf had a Tek 10 (and did rather well with it).

Of course, that doesn't make them common; I'm just saying that they have been used at a major NIC war (not a Jersey one, but pretty much as close as it gets). And, even if shotguns are not a "number one choice" for war-goers, I think that they are valid weapons that can be used effectively with the right play-style and arena.

Of course, if anyone tries to use a shotgun in Jersey, I'm sure the blaster will implode as soon as it's brought onto the field. But, that's what backups are for, right?

Speaking of which, is there a warning anywhere on the wiki about banned guns? Maybe we should keep a list of "banned" and "limited" weapons. Of course singled Titans would be banned outright, while BBBBs and SM5000s could be listed as "limited." That is to say, singled micro-shooting Titans are pretty much universally banned while BBBBs and SM5ks (to my knowledge) are only banned at some/most wars, and/or are subject to the individual blaster.

There could also be a general note that every war is different and that it is possible that certain guns may be banned that are't usually banned. Advise them that it is a good idea to bring multiple blasters (not only in case of unexpected bans, but also in case of breaks or a need for loaners, or just to experiment).

Edited by jwasko, 17 December 2008 - 01:27 AM.

[Langley]

Whoops. Sorry, forgot where you were from. I didn't realize you were at that DCNO, you must not have been introduced to me as JWasko. Anyway, yeah, that's the only war I've been to where anyone really used a shotgun modded gun as a primary. I just don't think it's that common because it eats through so much ammo. I think it's maybe worth a note in the newbie guide, but I wouldn't recommend it as a nerfer's first primary.

As for the alternate game types, I think anything that's been successful enough to become a popular game type deserves an article on the wiki, but I think a new nerfer probably doesn't need to know much beyond the basic deathmatch rules. If the person hosting the event is going to run a gunslinger round, they're usually going to explain it first anyway. People aren't generally expected to know other game types when they show up.

Another note: There should probably be some kind of note about finding other modds for other guns in the directory.