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A Question About Stefans

Do they really need a hole?

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#1 Nerfer16

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 06:52 PM

I was wondering if any of you have made stefans without a hole in the back. I don't see why a gun that doesn't have a post inside of the barrel needs to use darts that have a hole in them. If you have tried this, did you notice any performance degradation with darts that don't have a post hole?
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#2 Black Wrath

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 07:00 PM

Does it need a hole? No. Does the hole help? Yes. I believe the reason why we make holes in our Stefans is so that the air exiting the barrel, instead of trying to go around the dart, goes inside of it, propelling it a greater distance. The air basically goes into the dart, and not around it. In theory, wouldn't that make for a better shot? It does in my mind.
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#3 VeggieBoy 3000

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 07:03 PM

I've heard a few theories of why the hole in the back is better, and I really haven't done much thinking on the subject, but what I do know is this: The darts with holes in the back work better. This is just through trial and error, so take from it what you want. I've tried both though, and in my opinion the darts with holes work better.
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#4 THIRST

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 07:19 PM

Darts with hoese do work better. Im not exactly sue, but my own theory is that since there is more surface area(from the hole) there is more air hitting it at the same time, further increasing range and velocity.

Edited by THIRST, 17 January 2004 - 07:20 PM.

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#5 One Man Clan

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 07:21 PM

This has been debated about for a number of times. I personally don't see enough of an improvement in performance in order to do it to all my darts. You're looking at someone who can crank out 500 goods darts in a day so i don't take the extra steps. My zeros fly far and staright enough for me.
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#6 Nerfer16

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 07:23 PM

How do you guys make the hole? I have heard of the following methods: drill press, drinking straw, pencil, and soldering iron. What works best?
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#7 Black Wrath

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 07:27 PM

Glue gun... that's what I use.
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#8 THIRST

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 07:27 PM

Heating up a glue gun, and pushing the tips into the back of the dart, it just burns away very nicely.
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#9 One Man Clan

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 07:34 PM

What would work well is to stick a nail in the tip of the heated glue gun. The nail will become hot and make a more centered hole than the V shaped tip of a glue gun by itself. Just be careful cause that nail will be hot as a sunofabitch.
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#10 Spaztic 75

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 07:38 PM

Thats what I do except half of my guns are micros and I can't get a substancial hole in them because the glue gun tip is too wide.
But I find that a hole in back makes a 10-15ft. increace on my range.
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#11 Nerfer16

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 07:41 PM

Thanks for the great ideas, tips, and advice guys! :D
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#12 Ice Nine

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 08:59 PM

When I make stefans, I never put holes in because it disrupts the smooth flow.
And when I did experiment with it, the ones with holes got 10-15 ft. less feet.
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#13 cxwq

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 11:49 PM

I did a comparison once with half a dozen different types of micro stefans.

Short story: the holes didn't help.
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#14 xedice

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 11:53 PM

Hmm.

I have done tests with holes and no holes, and in my experience, the ones while holes do better, and here is my theory:

When air is shot through the barrel, and you have a dart with no hole, the force being applied is on the back of the dart. Next, when the dart comes out, the force does not want to stay in the back of the dart anymore, since there is no barrel to force it to. This will destabalize the back end of the dart and it will lose it's aerodynamics because it is now flying at a bit of an angle.

On the other hand, when you have a dart with a hole in the back (a deep cylindrical hole, not a simple V shaped hole via a hot glue gun), the air is injected into the dart. Now where is the force? The force is inside the dart, and it is pushing on the front of the dart. It is more aerodynamically stable to have force pushing in the front of a dart, than the back. Also, since the air is trapped in the dart, the force stays with the dart longer.

I have tested this theory many times. The explanation why may not be 100% correct, but I know the results are. Darts with holes outperform those without. Also, I am talking about deep cylindrical holes. You get those by taking a drinking straw and use a twisting motion. Then you get needle nose pliers and take out the cylinder of foam.

Hope this helps.
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#15 cxwq

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Posted 18 January 2004 - 01:27 AM

In case you weren't around a few years ago when I originally posted this analysis...

Micro Stefan Comparison

Man, I was a cocky bastard when I first joined the NIC.

Guess things never change.
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#16 xedice

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Posted 18 January 2004 - 10:32 AM

I did tests similar to yours, except I used a larger sample size. And I found that darts with holes gain an average of about 5-10 feet. When I do my new dart tests in a couple of days, I am going to test this again, as well as yoink darts, different weights, small micro darts (3/8") and different kind of dart lengths. I could be wrong about my previous tests cxwq, but I am going to double check in a few days just to give me peace of mind (make sure I'm not wasting my time drilling holes in every single on of my stefans).

I suppose what ever works best for you.

Edited by xedice, 18 January 2004 - 10:36 AM.

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#17 Spaztic 75

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Posted 18 January 2004 - 02:16 PM

It may in fact be true that holes on micros are useless however I use megas in most of my wars and with those, holes seem to work.
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#18 Nerfer16

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Posted 18 January 2004 - 06:42 PM

In case you weren't around a few years ago when I originally posted this analysis...

Micro Stefan Comparison

Man, I was a cocky bastard when I first joined the NIC.

Guess things never change.

That article was very helpful! It is the first one I have seen that actually covers the various types of stefans. Thanks Cxwq! :lol:
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#19 Zero Talent

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Posted 18 January 2004 - 06:59 PM

A hole, drilled about 3/4 or further into the back of a dart with a small plastic straw (something the size Wendy's uses, or smaller), can greatly reduce the elastic properties of the main body of the dart, while remaining small enough to be resistant to tears from relatively strong pressure sources. What do I mean? Less friction, centrally in barrels that slightly too small for their darts (example: 1/2" CPVC and 1/2" Foam Backer Rod).

From my experience, the darts remain the same size as before, allowing use in the same barrels as their chunky bretheren. This core removal can also increase the effect of a tip weight's dart balancing effect, allowing lighter weights, with the same accuracy as heavier weights. Point in case: I reduced my Zero darts to a single steel BB, versus a size 7 fishing weight, with little range loss, and no accuracy loss at all (full bodied darts with the same light weight are eccentric).

I'd publish a test, but there's no motivation for that.
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#20 Nerfer16

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Posted 18 January 2004 - 07:13 PM

Point in case: I reduced my Zero darts to a single steel BB, versus a size 7 fishing weight, with little range loss, and no accuracy loss at all (full bodied darts with the same light weight are eccentric).

Are you saying that a single BB isn't enought weight for my two inch micro stefans?
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#21 buckbogey

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 08:37 PM

Who does the "Glue Gun <cone in back>" and who does the "Nail or straw." I've found those to be some detirmaning factors also. In my expirence the no hole and nail or straw did about the same. But the Glue Gun was more accurate and had about a 5 foot advantage.
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#22 Black Wrath

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 08:44 PM

Who does the "Glue Gun <cone in back>" and who does the "Nail or straw." I've found those to be some detirmaning factors also. In my expirence the no hole and nail or straw did about the same. But the Glue Gun was more accurate and had about a 5 foot advantage.

Well, I use my big glue gun to make the first hole, and then I take my little one and make a little bit of a deeper hole, and then I'm done.

I don't know, but with my darts, the hole makes the darts better. They fly straighter, and go a little bit farther. I honestly don't know if it will be the same for everyone else.
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#23 Nello

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 09:01 PM

I made myself 8 stefans for testing last night and I got a chance to use them today. They are 2.5 inches long with size 7 fishing weights in them. I used a single barreled SM1500 for testing. The darts with no holes in in the back were accurate and all flew about the same distance. The darts that had hot nail induced holes in the back were much less consistant. Two fishtailed and went about 25 feet, the weight blew out on one dart and then one went 15 feet further than the stefans with no holes in them. The darts were all well glued and had holes right down the centre and they were not poorly made. Some of them just blew apart or fishtailed.
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#24 Nerfer16

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 09:12 PM

Are size seven fishing weights bigger or heavier than BB's?

Edited by Nerfer16, 19 January 2004 - 09:12 PM.

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#25 THIRST

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 09:30 PM

the weight blew out on one dart

they were not poorly made


You just contradicted yourself. If the weights blow out, theyre either really old, or poorly made.
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