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Brass Vs Petg?

Pros and Cons of each

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#1 Muttonchops

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 07:31 PM

To start off, yes, I have searched the forums and read 50+ articles about people asking if they should use PETG or brass in their guns.

I have read Cxwq's article (quite informative) and have read the 'Guide to Barrel Material'

I am not looking to be flamed, and I do not believe a comparison of this depth has been made before.

I plan on using either of these two materials for a variety of spring guns, both pistols and primaries.

Below I have listed the Pros and Cons of each I have come across

Brass:
Pros: Available in increments, so nesting is quite easy
Relativity strong
Gives good friction for spring powered guns
Nested brass barrels can give amazing performance

Cons: Costly
Brass can bend
Not the easiest to work with, specialized tools are required.

PETG
Pros: CHEAP
Very easy to work with
Good resistance to darts
Clear - able to check if a barrel is loaded or not
Lightweight, easy to handel

Cons: Pain in the ass to get (Not as much thanks to OMC)
Can be too loose for some darts
Can be deformed when cutting

I have all available tools needed for cutting and using either material (I'm a marine biologist, and have plenty of tools). My darts can be stretched as needed, and I know it fits nested brass and PETG fine.

My main question is what do people personally prefer? Any notes? How does the performance of brass change in the winter compared to the summer? How hard is it to fit a brass dent? Can PETG snap or crack easily? How do they compare in different weather, such as high humidity (Jersey) or rain?

Thank you for your assistance.

-Deamonn
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#2 Icespartan 1114

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 07:37 PM

All of your points are very clear and easy to read. Nice post. Really the thing that matters for what barrel material you use is what fits your darts. Remember there are many sizes of brass.
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#3 Herpestidae

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 07:47 PM

Ok so I am a little confused as to why being a marine biologist gives you access to loads of specialized cutting tools...then again maybe I don't want to know (poor dolphins).

Onto your questions I have used brass more and it is easy to get a proper fit thanks to the different sizes so I have gotten some really good guns that way. That being said I am starting to use more PETG because it is cheaper. Nesting 17/32 brass in PETG has turned out really well and the PETG holds up to abuse better.
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#4 TantumBull

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 08:23 PM

It depends on how your darts fit. Thick wall PETG from OMC has a bigger ID than 17/32 brass, but a smaller one than 9/16.
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#5 Vistagecko

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 08:27 PM

Brass some people say can be dented easily, however over 5 months I have yet to put a scratch in it.

Lately as its been getting colder (Ohio) My PETG has become more fragile and more apt to crack.

The barrel material you want to use really depends on how it fits your darts, range you get from different materials, and how much you want to spend.
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QUOTE(The Kart Racing Nerf Man @ May 6 2009, 07:31 PM) View Post

I lubed it again and again, I don't see what an extra 2 centimeters does. I don't think I will cut it off.
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#6 AJZ

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 09:50 PM

IMO, PETG is the way to go. Ifyou already made stefans that fit brass, than that's the way to go. It all depends on your darts.

PETG is flexible and easy to work with, while brass is pretty easy to cut, but it takes a while to sand it flat and precise cutting is not my thing. With PETG, all you do is wip put some scizzors and "Cut 'em up!" I like brass aswell, but after a poor nesting job combined with running...let's just say I didn't brake anything valuable. The brass bent like kickboxing accident demonstrated in this video...

I learned my lesson but anyway, try PETG if you're not totally set with brass. It works for me
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#7 k9turrent

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 10:06 PM

Ok so I am a little confused as to why being a marine biologist gives you access to loads of specialized cutting tools...then again maybe I don't want to know (poor dolphins).


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That's about it. And thanks Angela who helped me with these pictures.. It looks huge in her hands.


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#8 Connor

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 10:17 PM

I personaly like PETG better. Because its sooooo much less money. But one thing I hate about PETG is that when i hot glue it, it always melts and i have to get a new barrel of it!!!!! And brass is so much stronger.
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#9 cheesypiza001

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 10:35 PM

I personaly like PETG better. Because its sooooo much less money. But one thing I hate about PETG is that when i hot glue it, it always melts and i have to get a new barrel of it!!!!! And brass is so much stronger.



If you use the glue-gun when it is on low heat, (a few minutes after you plug it in) then the PETG will not melt as long as you don't touch the metal tip of the glue-gun to it.

Edited by cheesypiza001, 12 November 2008 - 10:35 PM.

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#10 sam

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 11:20 PM

The only Con that really stands out in my mind is that its slightly more difficult to make a breach for PETG than it is for brass. Other than that I'd say all their other pros and cons equal out. It just depends on what fits your darts best.
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#11 VACC

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 08:27 AM

It depends on how your darts fit. Thick wall PETG from OMC has a bigger ID than 17/32 brass, but a smaller one than 9/16.


Wiser words have never been spoken. It's all about dart fit. Barrels are going to be relatively constant, but dart material rarely is. Your best bet is to find a reliable source of foam that you like, and choose the barrel material that fits it best. Personally, I like the foam from McMaster (mcmaster part# 93295K43) because it fits OMC thickwall PETG well, 17/32 Brass snugly (good for nesting), and can be purchased in conjunction with all the parts needed to make Slug's felt tipped stefans. The only problem is that it is grey and VERY easy to lose on a cluttered nerf field. There are pros and cons to each type of foam, and deciding what is most important to you and choosing that foam is the first step to picking the optimal barrel material.
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#12 Muttonchops

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 11:00 AM

I thank you all for your advice, it has been quite helpful.

Again, I did not want dart fit to be the main point of this thread: It is not that hard to stretch foam using a hairdryer to fit smaller brass if needed.

Lately as its been getting colder (Ohio) My PETG has become more fragile and more apt to crack.


This comment by Vistagecko is exactly what I was looking for. I am personally quite rough with my guns, so I will most likely add a pvc ring support halfway up the barrel.

Herpes' comment on PETG and nested brass was also quite interesting, I may try that in my NF.

Finally, I'm a marine biologist in a land locked lab (stupid, I know). Everything we study has to be transported to one of two sea tables in the lab. We pretty much use PVC and fiberglass to make all the habitats and flow systems, so we have a myriad of tools for cutting and shaping plastic, fiberglass, and metal.


No dolphins have been harmed in the making of these sea tables
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#13 Ambience 327

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 11:54 AM

No dolphins have been harmed in the making of these sea tables


What about in the operation of said tables? :D
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#14 mystefansdontflystraight

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 12:13 PM

I personally use PETG. I use Mile High FBR from Hereticorp. It has a beautiful fit in PETG. But us Canadians have to switch our barrel material half way through the year because it gets too cold and our darts shrink. I was having problems with my darts and petg at 10 degree weather. We do nerf in the snow at WCNO. Then, I switch to CPVC, which has the same ID (the stuff I use anyway) as 17/32 brass. I sometimes use 17/32 if I don't plan on couplering the gun.
Anyway, I technically use both. I MUCH prefer PETG though, because it is so cheap, and I get most of it balancing out deals (someone owes me 5$, I say pay me in petg).
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QUOTE(Blacksunshine @ Dec 24 2009, 02:15 PM) View Post

QUOTE(white moonlight @ Dec 23 2009, 01:29 PM) View Post

It's just screaming to be rearloading...

I seen a movie about that once.



#15 s3an967

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 02:52 PM

PETG will shatter under pressure. as with brass, not so much

Edited by s3an967, 13 November 2008 - 02:52 PM.

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#16 slowguitarman

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 03:43 PM

:D PETG doesn't shatter at all. It deforms under pressure. If it shattered under pressure, how would you cut it with scissors? Maybe if you heat it up and then freeze it really quick...
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#17 Blacksunshine

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 07:21 PM

In order of importance

Dart fit.
Application
Cost.

What fits your darts is numero uno.

If you're making a breech, petg is a bitch to integrate a breech with. it simply doesn't have the strength to hold up in this application. Brass is airtight from one size to the next so they are perfect for this application.

Petg is cheap. So for a straght up barrel nested in pvc, PETG is the way to go. No sense in spending the cost for brass here. Same thing with pistols and such that have a simple barrel replacement.



And yes PETG will shatter. Disk shot modded with handyman. Shattered barrel almost in perfect circle and blew it out of the gun on the first shot. Launched the barrel with dart still in about 15 ft. I've had it also crack from pressure put on it. And twisting it will also have the possiblity of cracking it. All about too much too fast and possibly a weak point in the tube.

Edited by Blacksunshine, 13 November 2008 - 07:25 PM.

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#18 mystefansdontflystraight

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 08:45 PM

I personally use PETG. I use Mile High FBR from Hereticorp. It has a beautiful fit in PETG. But us Canadians have to switch our barrel material half way through the year because it gets too cold and our darts shrink. I was having problems with my darts and petg at 10 degree weather. We do nerf in the snow at WCNO. Then, I switch to CPVC, which has the same ID (the stuff I use anyway) as 17/32 brass. I sometimes use 17/32 if I don't plan on couplering the gun.
Anyway, I technically use both. I MUCH prefer PETG though, because it is so cheap, and I get most of it balancing out deals (someone owes me 5$, I say pay me in petg).


You Northerners ought to find a "winter foam" so you don't need two sets of blasters. Well, that'd be my opinion, anyway. I would much rather switch ammo bags, than have to rework blasters twice a year. Especially since the weather can throw exceptional days either way.


It's called a universal coupler. I am going to do a detailed write up on me putting one on a 2k soon.

PETG does shatter. Deaddumpster's Commlink's barrel shattered at HbH.
I like 9/16 brass with tightening rings. Awesome.
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QUOTE(Blacksunshine @ Dec 24 2009, 02:15 PM) View Post

QUOTE(white moonlight @ Dec 23 2009, 01:29 PM) View Post

It's just screaming to be rearloading...

I seen a movie about that once.



#19 Wes7143

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 09:37 PM

Sometimes brass isn't too expensive. I just bought 1 foot of brass for 30 cents.

True story.

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#20 Blacksunshine

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 12:19 PM

Sometimes brass isn't too expensive. I just bought 1 foot of brass for 30 cents.

True story.

-Wes


This a freak thing or a solid source?
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#21 Blasphemy

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 02:08 PM

Well, that may be for him, but chances are this guy who's looking for some opinions will only find brass at the same price as the rest of us, which is expensive. PETG may be less durable than brass, but that is what nesting is for, find yourself some good PVC/CPVC pipe to protect your PETG, that way you'll have all the durability you need and it still won't be as heavy or expensive as brass that is the same length..

Frankly I use neither, I currently use CPVC, but it hasn't been working well for me so far, so I'll probably be making the switch to PETG.

Also, shouldn't a really high density foam provide less shrinkage when it comes to dart fit? I'd think it would, but I'd need some confirmation from someone who actually knows.

Edited by Blasphemy, 14 November 2008 - 02:09 PM.

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#22 Blacksunshine

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 02:21 PM

Also, shouldn't a really high density foam provide less shrinkage when it comes to dart fit? I'd think it would, but I'd need some confirmation from someone who actually knows.


Yes. the denser the foam the harder it is to stretch it to fit smaller barrels. But it holds up so much better then the light stuff most ppl are playing with. You gotta fire it a couple times for it to fit itself best to your barrels.
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#23 Blasphemy

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 02:33 PM


Also, shouldn't a really high density foam provide less shrinkage when it comes to dart fit? I'd think it would, but I'd need some confirmation from someone who actually knows.


Yes. the denser the foam the harder it is to stretch it to fit smaller barrels. But it holds up so much better then the light stuff most ppl are playing with. You gotta fire it a couple times for it to fit itself best to your barrels.


No, I wasn't referring to stretching it to make it fit your darts, but rather offering a solution for the Canadians and their problem with dart shrinkage in cold weather. But, whatever, you answered my question anyways.
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#24 Wes7143

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 02:39 PM

This a freak thing or a solid source?


Actually it was a pricing mistake. The brass was $3.00 and didn't have a price tag on it, so the cashier might have made the mistake of putting in 30 cents, rather than 300 cents. Anyway, It works great and is high quality stuff. I got it from Ray & Robbin's hobby shop.

Edited by Wes7143, 14 November 2008 - 02:41 PM.

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#25 jackster57

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Posted 15 November 2008 - 05:09 PM

I also go to ray and robins in Falmouth. I need to use the 17/32nds brass with my new darts (the smaller ones at MenWar)
Brass is good. PETG is good. Depends of what your darts fit into.
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