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Moddel 2 Stefans

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#1 fly rev-8

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 09:26 PM

Well I'm not sure what else to say about the Stefan moddel 2. My idea is putting a spiral imprint into the hot glue dome of a stefan, giving it greater accuracy. The supplies you need to make the imprint (aside from normal stefan materials) are; acrylic/epoxy, lard/butter, and something to moddel what you want the dart tip to look like. Here's what you do.
1.Take the moddeling material you're using to make the tip of the moddel 2 stefan and put 3 twisting curves by either putting small raised impressions on the tip of the dart, or by putting an indent into the dart head. (tip, curve should not exceed past top of the curve starting point on the next groove/risen twist)
2.Check your work. I don't think I can stress this enough how important it is to get the grooves right. 1 bad twist and you should correct it or start again. If you don't, all of the stefans you make are crap.
3.Take the material and cover it in lard/butter. (Though with some materials you may not need this step. Also to anyone making the moddel out of wood: I highly suggest you sand the head incredibly smoothe to ensure no iregular surfaces cause drag. Iroinic, I actually suggest you use wood if you have the tools.)
4.Prepare the acrylic/epoxy and a small box of some sort. (hot glued cardboard should work fine)
5.Pour the acrylic/epoxy filling the box about 60-75% full. Place the moulding piece into the acrylic/epoxy and let sit untill hardened and remove the moulding piece. (I suggest you hold it there or rig it to do that on its own. Epoxy comes in time incraments [until hardening]. The times are 5 and 30 min., and I suggest you get the 5 min. one.)
6. Cover the mould in lard/butter and make an M-2 stefan head in the mold with hot glue. Make sure to fill the mould compleatly to avoid defects in the cast.
7.(A)Attach the head to the rest of the body in the mould while the glue is still hot and let it cool. This is another dificult part to do because you could put the head off center.
7.(B)Smoothe out the top of the piece you moulded with ice or a wet finger. Also make sure that the top is perfect and when it cools, take it out and glue it to the rest of the stefan.

Yes I know this is a bit a a complicated proccess that may take you a few times to get the mould/casting right. However if you make good M-2 stefans, they will be priceless in the game and worth the effort.

Tips, Hints, and Locations:
Acrylic-can be gotten online
Epoxy- any craft store (sepratly sold are stiring sticks and cups)
Wood to use- I suggest poplar or red oak.
When making the groove/raised twist, mark point "A" and point "B" on the tip and work from there.
Always test the darts you make extensivly to make sure your mould as well as your castingss are comming out right.

Grading M-2's: only if you really want to

First, write whether the spiral is raised or in a grove and show this as a letter.(R or G)
If you have one, take a graduated cylinder and find it's volume (in CC)
Then write the spiral deterance from the center in 8ths of an inch from the bottom of where the next grove over would be if it was strait. If your groove is short of this point you would mark it a -1 for one 8th of an inch from the "standard point"
If it's past that point you would write it as +1 for every 8th of an inch past the standard point.

You would write it as R-(volume in cc)-(+ or - the standard point) or G-(volume in cc)-(+ or - the standard point)

An example, a grooved, M-2, 2.5cc's and a standard of -3 would be written as this:

G - 2.5 - (-3)

If it was a positave 3 standard it would be writen like so:

G - 2.5 - (+3)
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#2 nerfer9

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 09:39 PM

You put indents in so the dart would spin like a real bullet? From what I can tell, putting a spiral indent in them would do nothing.
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#3 fly rev-8

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 09:46 PM

You put indents in so the dart would spin like a real bullet? From what I can tell, putting a spiral indent in them would do nothing.


Why do you think real bullets spin, for fun?
No. The spinning deflects air around the bullet stabalizing it and making it more accurate.

And here's a tip, when you don't know something ask how it works. Don't just right out challenge it.
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#4 Ubermensch

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 09:50 PM

Listen, fool. Rifling has been proven not to work with Nerf guns. Even if it did, your idea would do nothing to make the dart spin, and would probably throw off the dart's balance. Additionally, it is way too much work. You have no idea what you're talking about.
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#5 Zack Koukios

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 09:53 PM

You put indents in so the dart would spin like a real bullet? From what I can tell, putting a spiral indent in them would do nothing.


Why do you think real bullets spin, for fun?
No. The spinning deflects air around the bullet stabalizing it and making it more accurate.

And here's a tip, when you don't know something ask how it works. Don't just right out challenge it.

what are you talking about? what stabilizes it is something called gyroscopic stabilization. Instead of tumbling around, it stays straight thus it cuts through the air better as less area is required to be pushed through the air. it has nothing to do with deflecting air. sorry if this comes off as a rant.

Edited by Zack Koukios, 10 October 2008 - 09:56 PM.

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#6 rork

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 09:57 PM

Honestly, I was distracted by the hilarious suggestion to use "lard/butter." Foodstuffs should not be associated with dartsmithing, ever. Know it, live it. And if you want accuracy, use slug darts. Nerf darts are inaccurate by their very nature; rifling is, I would think, just masturbatory.
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#7 fly rev-8

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 09:59 PM

Listen, fool. Rifling has been proven not to work with Nerf guns. Even if it did, your idea would do nothing to make the dart spin, and would probably throw off the dart's balance. Additionally, it is way too much work. You have no idea what you're talking about.


I'm just wondering, is there someone making you do this whole process? I'm just posting an idea of mine that I believe is good. I know that rifling works better for higher powered nerf guns, and goes down with lesser power. But maybe some of us like this exrta work. Especially when no new mods are out and we have nothing to do. Now if you have to do everything posted on nerf haven please PM me and I'll never post again, but I just want to get my ideas out to the public. It also gets me mad when people blow off ideas because the have been "proven". If they actually have I'm fine with that but come on, I have the right thought procces and logical thinking about this right? This is at least halfway credible right? Besides, I'd bet you it's easier than it looks.(With the exception of making the moddel for the dart head.)
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#8 nerfer9

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 10:05 PM

Listen, fool. Rifling has been proven not to work with Nerf guns. Even if it did, your idea would do nothing to make the dart spin, and would probably throw off the dart's balance. Additionally, it is way too much work. You have no idea what you're talking about.


I'm just posting an idea of mine that I believe is good. I know that rifling works better for higher powered nerf guns, and goes down with lesser power



Listen dumbshit, rifling is proven not to work in Nerf. Don't fucking call me out if you yourself don't know how it works. I'm a hunter, literally. I know how fucking rifling works, you need to know how it does to pass the hunter safety course. Oh, and you spelled "moddel" wrong. M-O-D-E-L, is the way its supposed to be spelled.

Edited by nerfer9, 10 October 2008 - 10:09 PM.

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#9 Team Slaya

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 10:13 PM

Listen, fool. Rifling has been proven not to work with Nerf guns. Even if it did, your idea would do nothing to make the dart spin, and would probably throw off the dart's balance. Additionally, it is way too much work. You have no idea what you're talking about.


I'm just wondering, is there someone making you do this whole process? I'm just posting an idea of mine that I believe is good. I know that rifling works better for higher powered nerf guns, and goes down with lesser power. But maybe some of us like this exrta work. Especially when no new mods are out and we have nothing to do. Now if you have to do everything posted on nerf haven please PM me and I'll never post again, but I just want to get my ideas out to the public. It also gets me mad when people blow off ideas because the have been "proven". If they actually have I'm fine with that but come on, I have the right thought procces and logical thinking about this right? This is at least halfway credible right? Besides, I'd bet you it's easier than it looks.(With the exception of making the moddel for the dart head.)


Whoa, whoa, off of your soapbox now. For someone who's trying to assume a non aggressive position on all of this, you're being rather aggressive. This is how flame wars stop, quit while you're ahead.

In any event, did you search for previous threads on this? Because I know there's been one or two in the past, which have been shot down for the same reason that this one is - because it's completely unnecessary. Darts work surprisingly well when made well as is, not much improvement is really needed.

I hate just shooting down ideas, so I'll bite. Do you KNOW that it works? Post some pictures, god forbid a video of such comparisons. This is a new way of making darts that many people don't believe in, and if you've found results that are worth the effort, then by all means, post them! I'd actually like to know whether this works, it's interesting. But post some test results! If it doesn't work as well as you've hoped, ask for possible tips on improving it. Don't just come on here with a new idea and expect everyone to like it immediately; there's got to be some discussion on a DISCUSSION board, and discussion is about the exchange of possibly conflicting ideas. But I digress.

Know that you're completely right - the nerfing community's content production is going down. There is, on the whole, less innovation and new content per se. New ideas are always good, but just be willing to take what people say here.

TS
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#10 Banshee

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 10:14 PM

Geez people, call down just a notch or two. You're starting to flame, we don't need that. bash him all you want, he talks too much, but lets not flame the hell out of him too bad... Haha.
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#11 VACC

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 10:20 PM

No, fuck this sissy bullshit. This is nerfhaven. If you have an idea that just so happens to be a stupid idea it is our right, nay, our responsibility to tell you that your idea is fucking stupid. Prove us wrong, deal with it, or go somewhere else.
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#12 Ubermensch

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 10:25 PM

VACC dispenses great wisdom.
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#13 nerfer9

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 10:28 PM

VACC dispenses great wisdom.



(start of cock sucking) Dude, he's Vacc, he pisses wisdom in the morning. (end of cock sucking)


My friend thinks that the rifling in the longshot's barrel helps accuracy, I nearly died laughing.

Edited by nerfer9, 10 October 2008 - 10:28 PM.

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#14 Guest_fadinglight4_*

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 10:43 PM

I personally think this won't do anything. It will just be a waste of time.
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#15 Team Slaya

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 11:04 PM

VACC dispenses great wisdom.



(start of cock sucking) Dude, he's Vacc, he pisses wisdom in the morning. (end of cock sucking)


My friend thinks that the rifling in the longshot's barrel helps accuracy, I nearly died laughing.


I think that VACC was the one who said that the ribbing in the LS barrel was for her pleasure. I'm still laughing.

TS
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#16 Banshee

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Posted 11 October 2008 - 01:06 AM

If you REALLY want to be a faggot and have your darts spin in the air, just rip the heads off of them... That usually does it...
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#17 CaptainSlug

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Posted 11 October 2008 - 01:30 AM

Why are you advocating the use of lard or butter as a mold release agent? You could just buy mold release agent.

Gyroscopic stabilization is used to stabilize a projectile that is not aerodynamically stable. You do not have to add rotation to a projectile that already is inherently stable (as your darts should be since they are front-weighted).
Fin-stabilized rounds fired from a smooth-bore barrel won't need any kind of spin to maintain a stable trajectory path, and neither will your Nerf projectiles.

If your darts are properly made you should be getting very good accuracy up to 100 feet. Anything beyond that will be greatly affected by even slight wind drift because the projectiles simply do not weigh enough to resist even a mild breeze. No amount of spin will fix that.

If you wanted to run experiments on this then rifling is not the way to go because you're only going to add friction. Instead you might want to consider a motor used to spin a barrel that's mounted on a swivel fitting.

We are not going to be comfortable with anyone that advocates adding solid plastic or metal dart tips because those HURT LIKE MAD when you get shot with them.

Edited by CaptainSlug, 11 October 2008 - 01:34 AM.

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#18 Mr BadWrench

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Posted 11 October 2008 - 05:47 AM

FSDS
FIN-STABILIZED DISCARDING STEFAN!!!!

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Several problems with gyroscopic effect on a foam dart is that the material does not have enough mass to continue spinning for any amount of time, Foams soft and flexible composition will also dampen the effect by slowing down the spiral quickly. Finally If you were to invent some "uber dart" and show up at a nerf war you would just be banned, bound and gagged and buried in the woods.


Good luck with the Crisco on your darts, everyone in the field will recognize you by the cloud of flies, gnats and Bees following you around.

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#19 fly rev-8

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Posted 11 October 2008 - 09:01 AM

Listen, fool. Rifling has been proven not to work with Nerf guns. Even if it did, your idea would do nothing to make the dart spin, and would probably throw off the dart's balance. Additionally, it is way too much work. You have no idea what you're talking about.


I'm just posting an idea of mine that I believe is good. I know that rifling works better for higher powered nerf guns, and goes down with lesser power



Listen dumbshit, rifling is proven not to work in Nerf. Don't fucking call me out if you yourself don't know how it works. I'm a hunter, literally. I know how fucking rifling works, you need to know how it does to pass the hunter safety course. Oh, and you spelled "moddel" wrong. M-O-D-E-L, is the way its supposed to be spelled.


I'd just like to point out that I'm not a good speller. I'm only in 8th grade and have kind of blown off spelling in class. Maybe not the best decition but come on, it should theoreticly work. If it doesn't fine. I'm just wondering what pissed you off so much. If you're a perfectionist I can understand that, but really.

Why are you advocating the use of lard or butter as a mold release agent? You could just buy mold release agent.

Gyroscopic stabilization is used to stabilize a projectile that is not aerodynamically stable. You do not have to add rotation to a projectile that already is inherently stable (as your darts should be since they are front-weighted).
Fin-stabilized rounds fired from a smooth-bore barrel won't need any kind of spin to maintain a stable trajectory path, and neither will your Nerf projectiles.

If your darts are properly made you should be getting very good accuracy up to 100 feet. Anything beyond that will be greatly affected by even slight wind drift because the projectiles simply do not weigh enough to resist even a mild breeze. No amount of spin will fix that.

If you wanted to run experiments on this then rifling is not the way to go because you're only going to add friction. Instead you might want to consider a motor used to spin a barrel that's mounted on a swivel fitting.

We are not going to be comfortable with anyone that advocates adding solid plastic or metal dart tips because those HURT LIKE MAD when you get shot with them.


Well which is cheaper, the agent or butter? What is most likely to be around, the agent or butter?

Point me.(Wow, now it's me 1 nerf haven 5 or 7, or something) :blush:

But still, don't think I don't care about your comments. I'd like to point out that I learned this from TV. I'm not saying blame the tube, just understand that though in theory it should work, it might (and most likely) won't work. Also I forgot to add in the standard stefan moulding procces. This, I believe, more people will take to. just do the same thing with a regular stefan without groves and BLAM, new and great idea. I'm starting to think that I should have released the standard stefan moulding procces first. The only thing that stoped me was the thought that people would say that a mould is unneccasary.(I know I spelled that wrong, sorry.) Well I guess that's happening now. Anyone posting after this tell me what you think of the standard moulding procces so I have an idea of what to do in the future.
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#20 King Of Butt Land

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Posted 11 October 2008 - 10:10 AM

this dude is exactly the kind of fucking needle-dick douche bag I hate.
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#21 boisie

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Posted 11 October 2008 - 10:11 AM

I'd just like to point out that I'm not a good speller. I'm only in 8th grade and have kind of blown off spelling in class. Maybe not the best decition but come on, it should theoreticly work. If it doesn't fine. I'm just wondering what pissed you off so much. If you're a perfectionist I can understand that, but really.

I'm in fucking ninth grade, and I know that if you don't fix your shit spelling, and Read This, there will be a ban in your future.

The thing that pissed us off is that you didn't read the Code of Conduct, and search. If you had, you would have found out that rifling does NOT work in nerf.
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#22 Rogue Warrior

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Posted 11 October 2008 - 10:29 AM

I would think that these darts would only work well in high volume air guns. It seems to me that a barrel material that is loose, like PETG, if rifled might actaully work because the foam could go inside the small grooves. I just can't think of a simple way of making a device for rifling.
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#23 hereticorp

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Posted 11 October 2008 - 10:32 AM

I would think that these darts would only work well in high volume air guns. It seems to me that a barrel material that is loose, like PETG, if rifled might actaully work because the foam could go inside the small grooves. I just can't think of a simple way of making a device for rifling.


Wrong.

First of all, PETG isn't loose, if it is you're using the wrong dart material.

Secondly, rifling works because the bullet MELTS into the grooves. So in THEORY the tighter the barrel the more rifling would work.

Darts aren't going to do that, and they aren't going to have the velocity to take advantage of rifling.

This has been discussed to death, please stop trying to make it a viable idea, it's not.
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#24 Shadowblade

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Posted 11 October 2008 - 11:16 AM

I would think that these darts would only work well in high volume air guns.


No, trust me, rifling will not help in high volume air guns. You'll only end up losing accuracy and/or shredding your dart into little pieces. The only way to achieve accuracy is to make good stefans, as mentioned in the previous posts.

EDIT: Woah! hereticorp and I have the same pic! Haha.

Edited by Shadowblade, 11 October 2008 - 11:17 AM.

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#25 Mr BadWrench

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Posted 11 October 2008 - 11:55 AM

the problem with TV is that they usually only show the ideas that worked.... If they only showed stupid ideas on tv it would be an election year.........
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