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Angel Breech On A Recon

Is it possible?

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#1 TimmyTown

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 10:13 PM

So I have been looking at my recon for quite some time trying to come up with a genious mod to add to the NIC. And I was just thinking about how if it could be angel breeched (or an amended angel breech with some differences) along with This orThis or something similar. With a barrel replacement (about 12 inches of brass or something) Inside of the barrel attatchement you should be able to get some magnificent ranges out of the thing no?

I mean it now has a MASSIVE plunger tube, an angel breech, and a good barrel. By my calculations it should be rather incredible.
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QUOTE(rork @ Mar 16 2009, 05:30 PM) View Post

I, too "have recon," as they say. I get him in old country. Then I realize he sucks like bog. So I trade him for potato.

#2 rork

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 10:25 PM

You need to do extensive research regarding the way in which the recon actually works. The mod you linked to do not increase air output. The really dirty part about reverse plungers is that even if you figured out a way to make and install a bigger one (which no one has, to my knowledge), it's going to be heavier. The recon is not, nor will it ever be premo primary material.
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#3 BlackFox

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 10:27 PM

Be patient...

Posted Image
Posted Image

Edited by BlackFox, 28 September 2008 - 10:30 PM.

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#4 TimmyTown

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 10:29 PM

This is going to require some massive overhaul then.

Edited by TimmyTown, 28 September 2008 - 10:30 PM.

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QUOTE(rork @ Mar 16 2009, 05:30 PM) View Post

I, too "have recon," as they say. I get him in old country. Then I realize he sucks like bog. So I trade him for potato.

#5 Norther of Heaven

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 10:29 PM

Yes i'm sure it is. Now why don't you go out and try it?
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#6 BlackFox

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 10:36 PM

Just so you know, twelve inches for a recon barrel is totally rediculous. Without the half pipe, my barrel is six inches and it totally sucks without modification to the propulsion (ie more powerful spring). It's still in the works, so I'm not going into detail yet.

And I generally don't like the spring addition in the stock. My philosophy is that the one advantage the recon has over the longshot is that it's remotely pistol size. If you add the spring in the stock, you've basically got a weak longshot.
It's only worth massive amounts of work if it's to be used as a beastly secondary. Otherwise, just get a longshot.
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#7 TimmyTown

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 10:45 PM

Just so you know, twelve inches for a recon barrel is totally rediculous. Without the half pipe, my barrel is six inches and it totally sucks without modification to the propulsion (ie more powerful spring). It's still in the works, so I'm not going into detail yet.

And I generally don't like the spring addition in the stock. My philosophy is that the one advantage the recon has over the longshot is that it's remotely pistol size. If you add the spring in the stock, you've basically got a weak longshot.
It's only worth massive amounts of work if it's to be used as a beastly secondary. Otherwise, just get a longshot.


This is a very good point. I may just have to patiently await your works then good sir.
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QUOTE(rork @ Mar 16 2009, 05:30 PM) View Post

I, too "have recon," as they say. I get him in old country. Then I realize he sucks like bog. So I trade him for potato.

#8 BlackFox

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 10:55 PM

This is a very good point. I may just have to patiently await your works then good sir.

I'm trying to get it finished, but I'm back in college and my free time has ebbed away. Those pictures represent a working first attempt. And by working first attempt, I mean I got multiple shots to fire consecutively from the clip. Of course, the Angel breech was the only modification and without more power, the shots went aproximately five feet.

Thanks for your patience, I'll try to finish ASAP.
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#9 mocky

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 03:56 AM

I've been looking to mod the recon too, but haven't found the time to do it yet. This is the idea I've been looking into:
Inverted plunger system has the major drawback of limited spring choices and the end of the plunger tube is a particularly weak spot, and the situation is not helped by using stronger springs.
To avoid those issues you CAN integrate NF internals into the recon. It is very possible and is a near perfect fit. The recon luckily has little tabs that facilitate in holding the cap of the plunger tube. But these tabs could do with a bit of sheet metal glued to it as reinforcement. Here's pic of how it'll fit together.

Posted Image

Next step is to fabricate new perspex catch plate to accommodate the new system.

Depending which model recon you have, the one with the shorter plunger tube will allow you to mount a Ar-15 spring while retaining the pistol package.

Posted Image

Then there's the tricky bit of putting a catch on the plunger. I'll let the enthusiastic get creative with that. Final step is to Angel breech it.

Edited by mocky, 29 September 2008 - 04:02 AM.

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#10 TimmyTown

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 08:16 AM

WOW! Great work mocky. Very impressive. I have been expirementing with integrating an AT2k into the gun, I would really like to retain the clip system however so its going to take a bit of work. With the NF plunger and such could you still use the standard cocking mech? Or do you need to cock a plunger as well as prime the dart in the chamber using the recons priming method?

Thats hte problem I am running into right now with the AT2k on the inside, I only wnat 1 action (pump) rather then 2 (pump and priming mech)
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QUOTE(rork @ Mar 16 2009, 05:30 PM) View Post

I, too "have recon," as they say. I get him in old country. Then I realize he sucks like bog. So I trade him for potato.

#11 mocky

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 09:26 AM

My idea was, as the bolt is draw back, it opens up and the dart enters the chamber, whilst simultaneously the bolt is pushing back the plunger until it is primed, so it'll work like any other recon. The details of the this breech are unfinished, but it'll work in the very same way the Angel breech does, it will also need the clip modded to take stefans or shortened darts.

I will also say I have not fully thought of how the plunger will catch, but it not be a simple mod, most likely will require some fabrication of perspex, and a slender relatively stiff plastic (solid petg rods?)

Image says a thousands words:

Posted Image

Mock up catch plate.

Posted Image

Recon integration with NF is entirely possible, definitely not for a newbie, but for those who wondered what to do with the recon this mod might turn shit into chocolate. There is also the possibility of doing the 'clever spring addition' in the stock which would allow even more power to be had. The only real limitation of the recon is its relatively short stroke and inability to use a large plunger tube without hacking it to death. As previously mentioned, the tabs MUST be reinforced, predicted factor of safety is currently 0.74, which means imminent failure. I will mention another idea I had to reinforce those tabs later.

Edited by mocky, 29 September 2008 - 10:27 AM.

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#12 Norther of Heaven

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 12:47 PM

Mocky, i've tried doing that before and it just doesn't work. I have the Recon with the longer "plunger guard" thing and it doesn't allow any space for a spring (at least of that size) in there.

EDIT: Sorry, thought you were talking about just the regular Recon internals, my bad.

Edited by Norther_of_Heaven, 29 September 2008 - 12:48 PM.

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#13 TheNerfLoki

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 03:09 PM

This orThis

Umm... Why do the links go to the same place?
On Topic: I like the Night finder internals in the recon idea. Also I was going to replace the recon barrel, but I decided to look on here instead. I am glad I did, When mocky finishes his recon I hope to try the mod out.
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#14 BlackFox

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 05:31 PM

Inverted plunger system has the major drawback of limited spring choices and the end of the plunger tube is a particularly weak spot, and the situation is not helped by using stronger springs.
To avoid those issues you CAN integrate NF internals into the recon. It is very possible and is a near perfect fit.


I like your thinking, but I doubt a nf integration will have a serious effect on ranges. It only gets about 70' on its own and with a four inch barrel. Add six to seven inches of breech and I doubt it would get much past 45', which isn't too bad for a secondary I suppose. But when you consider you have to make the bolt sled attach to the plunger rod, it's just too much work.
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#15 Draconis

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 07:39 PM

Damn. I thought I was going to be the first one done with this.... I guess I need to move faster. I'll post pictures later, but I have learned a few things that should be helpful:

The largest pipes (if making your own plunger) that fits in the original spot is 1"CPVC or 1" Copper. My prototype unit is using CPVC, because I already have it for another project. But I also have PETG that will work too, which I plan on using with the next version.

AR-15 and the +Bow springs fit nicely inside that black end cap on the newer version of the shell.

The black end cap on the new version is not completely swappable with the early version cap. They have different cut outs.

In order to us the original trigger mech, I think we will need to us a custom catch plate, and possibly use a truncated version of the SNAP plunger. Making it as small as possible to allow as much plunger distance as possible. Hopefully allowing the ~3" that the loading mech offers.

I think the whole thing will need to operate like the Longshot plunger and priming mechanism, but smaller.
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#16 mocky

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 08:36 PM

stock plunger inner diameter is 20.5mm with about 78.5mm of effective stroke. Modified approx. 25mm diameter and 77.5mm stroke. Coupled with a new spring I'm aiming for 60-70'. It's never going to be a good outdoor primary, but I'm hoping it'll be a maverick just with more kick. I'll keep working on a writeup.
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#17 Lynx

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 08:54 PM

Been done already.

Search next time. By the way, you are better off just making a bobafan spindle turret, getting a long shot or something else.

Too much damn work for not enough of a result. Really complex, little benefit and expensive.

Finally, dude, a will it be okay thread? Next time, just make it and if you encounter a major idea block or need to know measurements, then start a thread or PM SOMEONE!
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#18 mocky

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 02:37 AM

I don't see a Angel breech on recon writeup in the mod directory. It is against forum etiquette to ask for an opinion ?

This mod is to retain the recon pistol package, the ability to use clips and have better secondary weapon ranges. In no way is this meant to compete with a LS. Complex and expensive perhaps, but maybe some people want to try it for a challenge.

Edited by mocky, 30 September 2008 - 04:19 AM.

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#19 Split

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 08:09 AM

Searching doesn't just mean looking in the directory. We have a whole comprehensive function devoted to just searching. Try it next time.
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Teehee.

#20 TimmyTown

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 09:38 AM

Been done already.

Search next time. By the way, you are better off just making a bobafan spindle turret, getting a long shot or something else.

Too much damn work for not enough of a result. Really complex, little benefit and expensive.

Finally, dude, a will it be okay thread? Next time, just make it and if you encounter a major idea block or need to know measurements, then start a thread or PM SOMEONE!


Angel breech recon does not come back from any search results. THere is not one in the directory. I asked after trying my other options.

Do not flame. I needed to know if someone else had done it, and if it was an Effeminate failure. Since it seems that it can be done without ruining the blaster, that is now my plan. I let this thread die a page ago, I am not the one keeping it alive. I got my answers and thats the end of it.
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QUOTE(rork @ Mar 16 2009, 05:30 PM) View Post

I, too "have recon," as they say. I get him in old country. Then I realize he sucks like bog. So I trade him for potato.

#21 mocky

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 10:09 AM

Searching entire posts using the following:
'recon + brass' no results
'recon + breech' two results, on PVC breech, other is asking about PETG
'Angel + recon' no results
'recon + mods' 14 results, all are either AR removals or spring additions

I assume those are the typical keywords we should be putting in correct? Could some one post that link of the Angel breech on a recon please.
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#22 umdlancer

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 11:51 AM

I didn't bother posting a writeup because brassing the breech didn't do anything to improve performance, aside from the Recon never jamming. I suppose if you were to do an external spring replacement, it would make a replaced breech worthwhile. It's in the modifications / paintjobs thread.

Link to the post
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#23 Draconis

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 11:54 AM

I'm not sure why there is all the animosity for this thread. Sure, nothing has been really been done in it yet, but that doesn't mean it's okay to lie to these guys and tell them "It's been done" and "Search next time". It hasn't been done, or at least there is no mention of an Angel style breech anywhere on NH, NHQ, Foam Universe, or through a comprehensive Google search. There is the one mod where the guy took the back half of a Nightfinder and pasted it on to the clip section of a Recon. But that's as close as it gets to a plunger replacement.

Lynx, Splitlip: While I have the utmost respect for your modification skills, and the work you have both done... If you don't have anything constructive to say, then don't. Don't just bag on all the young ones, or they won't stick around and try new things. They won't become good nerfers and maybe create the best new mod for that new blaster.

I'll post some pics of what I've got worked up shortly.
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#24 akmetan

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 05:43 PM

Personally I'm working on the same thing myself. Ultimately each person has to decide a particular mod's usefulness before beginning the project. I absolutely plan on getting a LS and then modding it but I wouldn't discard the recon because of it. With the way I nerf, which is indoors in low light conditions, the LS would just prove a bit too powerful and not to mention less maneuverable. To me the Recon can be the MP5 to the LS's AR-15. Just my two cents.
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#25 SorrowX

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Posted 01 October 2008 - 12:40 AM

I've finished mine, but it isn't really an angel breech. It made my Recon get about 75-80 flat, which is pretty amazing for me. I'll have a writeup in the next week or so.(alot easier than angel breech-recon style, mind you)
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