15 replies to this topic

[spoink365]

Hi, my name is Harrison Kuras from Humans vs Zombies NIU Branch. As you may know, we had the shooting on Feb. 14th. We are currently trying to get the game back to the point it was at but we need some help. We have some people still complaining to us about insensitivity. This is where you come in, especially those from Virginia Tech. We need you to email your thoughts and situations to bhl@niu.edu (please be kind!) to help us get this off our back, of the organization may fall.

Thank you

[Demon Lord]

As you may know, we had the shooting on Feb. 14th. We are currently trying to get the game back to the point it was at but we need some help. We have some people still complaining to us about insensitivity.

This is very unfortunate, and obviously not in any way your fault or responsibility, but all the same it might be best to "lay low" at least until an anniversary passes. Maybe look for some off-campus locations, to help keep your organization going, even if you have to pay a use fee.

No matter how politic you are about it, it only takes one person's objections to royally screw you over, while such a community wound is fresh.

The thing is that the "advisory board" wants to get rid of HvZ COMPLETELY. As in shut down the club. We do more than Humans Vs Zombies games, we have held and are planning to hold NERF wars and other events but these people are threatening to end all that.
My name is Tim Peterson and I'm the Graduate Adviser of the club. We've fought long and hard for the very little the club has and now we are threatened with being shut down for something out of our control by a board who did not consult the people involved with the club nor consult any of the victims or their psychologists. All that is being asked is that people who nerf email the above address to show support of the club and what it does. If you have story about HvZ or something similar, tell it. That's all we can ask. Thanks for the support.

[mocky]

I had an application to create a Nerf society under my university student union, but yesterday I was emailed by the University administration denying my application, and there would be no appeal opportunities .I was instructed not to attempt a new application for a club which engaged in any activity which involved "Nerf". I gave the board a call too and they said they were instructed not to discuss the matter and I would risk an incident of student misconduct if I pursued the matter. After that Finnish shooting I don't see Nerf surviving anywhere near a college of university, best not to Nerf on campus. Talk to your SRC too, I'm not sure of your school conduct policies but what the university is doing could have legal implications.

[Herpestidae]

I had an application to create a Nerf society under my university student union, but yesterday I was emailed by the University administration denying my application, and there would be no appeal opportunities .I was instructed not to attempt a new application for a club which engaged in any activity which involved "Nerf". I gave the board a call too and they said they were instructed not to discuss the matter and I would risk an incident of student misconduct if I pursued the matter. After that Finnish shooting I don't see Nerf surviving anywhere near a college of university, best not to Nerf on campus. Talk to your SRC too, I'm not sure of your school conduct policies but what the university is doing could have legal implications.

Hmmm seems like a lot of people are having a hard time getting there admins to go along with the whole nerf thing. I guess we are pretty lucky at Truman, the moderator for our HvZ games is on the board of governors so we are left alone. However Mocky I would go through the student handbook at your school and see what the rules are on toys on campus. I know some schools have it stated in their handbooks that toys resembling guns are not allowed on campus. If it is not that in there I would bug the hell out of that board. Are they really going to reprimand you for exercising your freedom of speech? If so then they are nothing more than fascists and I would call them that. Sorry for the rant but it just makes me mad that universities which are supposed to be the most liberal places in America keep cutting down on the basic rights of people turning them into mindless slaves. If they quote all the school shootings then tell them how much of a stress reliever and friendship building exercise the club is. Once again sorry for the rants I just hate this kind of thing.

[Aimless]

I have to voice my opinion on this matter, from my experiences regarding nerfing and such, most if not all the school administrators and staff I have encountered are extreme hoplophobes, I was suspended from school for 3 days followed by a psychiatric review for simply putting in an application for a Nerf club, I also stated on the application that no blasters will be brought into the building, the club was just for planning and discussion.

Edit: The whole suspension drama took place about 3 months ago.

Edited by Aimless, 25 September 2008 - 12:16 PM.

[Cmdrmack]

Civil liberties get thrown out the window in the preservation of security. It's not right, but it's the way things happen. When people are scared they overreact. A toy blaster that resembles a gun might not be allowed. However, that still leaves a number of ball guns in the clear. If the rule is anything that involves a a projectile, you still have the option of throwing socks, or of foam swords of some sort.

Ultimately though, you'll just have to be patient until clearer heads take charge.

This whole thing about suspending someone just for suggesting a club is ridiculous. I don't care what kind of club you're suggesting, they can always just tell you "No."

However, private schools are private property, and they can enforce whatever rules they want. Especially if you're under 18.

Understand that people are dumb and will overreact to simple things out of fear. They aren't interested in listening, they're interested in covering their own butts in case something happens, and they're interested in trying to keep anything that could be dangerous from happening.

The Foam Warriors of Presbyterian College are in the process of reapplying for status as a registered student organization, so we'll let you know how that goes.

[J cobbers]

I was an active member in my own little nerfing/larping club back in my college days, before and after 9/11. We never had any major incidents relating to the use of our TOYS. Now your major point revolves around 'insensitivity' but you aren't giving us any details. Are your players being insensitive to non-players or the other way around?

If it is your player base I have an anecdote for you. One of the things that made my group successful is that any time a non-player came around we stopped what we were doing, answered any questions they had, and were generally polite. It was a basic rule that we had to follow. Generally we avoided disturbing areas that other students were going to be using. Yes our games were 24-7, but we only had big meetings/events once a week usually on Sunday. A day when most students were not in the location we were using.


Now if it is that non-players are not being sensitive to your club, ask why that is. I suggest being strategic about where, when and how you conduct your games. Be ready to take breaks in the action so you don't molest other people on campus. As for defending your game, it's no more risky or obnoxious than a soccer or ultimate frisbee game. Make sure that people clean up their darts. If people don't like the fact that you are playing with TOY guns, avoid getting into arguments with them. Always always always be polite and stay calm. Be prepared to show off your 'BLASTERS' (yeah I still call them nerf guns myself, but like so many things in college wording can be key).

Other things you can do to assure a smooth interaction with non-players is to have mandatory pre-game, during game, and after game briefings to keep people aware of issues that arise from dealing with non-players, and how the players should interact with them. I suggest that before each game you create a multiple choice test presenting some situations that have arisen in the past and the correct way to deal with it. Players should have to pass this test in order to play, as it shows they have a grasp on the consequences of disturbing other people on campus. You should include some examples that deal with your rules too. Just to make sure people understand the rules as well and won't be confused and accidentally cheat or some such thing.

[Demon Lord]

Now if it is that non-players are not being sensitive to your club, ask why that is. I suggest being strategic about where, when and how you conduct your games. Be ready to take breaks in the action so you don't molest other people on campus. As for defending your game, it's no more risky or obnoxious than a soccer or ultimate frisbee game. Make sure that people clean up their darts. If people don't like the fact that you are playing with TOY guns, avoid getting into arguments with them. Always always always be polite and stay calm. Be prepared to show off your 'BLASTERS' (yeah I still call them nerf guns myself, but like so many things in college wording can be key).

The concern from this board is that the 150 or so students that were in the room when the shooting happened at NIU is that the sight of the NERF stuff will trigger PTSD flashbacks. Upon talking with some of the students and the department involved, none of the people at the shooting were contacted by the board about this, the board just presumed they weren't healed yet and went ahead and are trying to shut us down.

[Father Nerf]

I made an observation that I would like to share and I may sound like a jerk for saying it and I am sorry for that. However, something I noticed about America, It seams to have some of the losest gun laws in the western world but also some of the most parinoid people. Has any Governer or Minister or the President (whom ever makes these kinds of decisions) ever thought of tightening said laws. I mean, do you know how hard it is to get a gun in Australia. In fact, I figured I might import a paintball gun, or maybe a paintball gun tank to use for nerfing. Turns out if I try to import any paintball equipment AT ALL I will cop a $10,000 fine and 2 years in jail, minimum.

Edited by Father_Nerf, 27 September 2008 - 12:20 AM.

[Aimless]

I made an observation that I would like to share and I may sound like a jerk for saying it and I am sorry for that. However, something I noticed about America, It seams to have some of the losest gun laws in the western world but also some of the most parinoid people. Has any Governer or Minister or the President (whom ever makes these kinds of desitions) every thought of tightening said laws. I mean, do you know how hard it is to get a gun in Australia. In fact, I figured I might import a paintball gun, or maybe a paintball gun tank to use for nerfing. Turns out if I try to import any paintball equipment AT ALL I will cop a $10,000 fine and 2 years in jail, minimum.

The mass media is to blame for the mass paranoia present in the US, they sensationalize and demonize what they see fit to sell crap, brainwash the population, and force their beliefs on us.

Extreme gun laws make it hard for honest people to LEGALLY acquire firearms and in the process, LEGALLY defend themselves with said LEGAL firearm, tighter gun laws only worsen crime as honest citizens will have even fewer ways of defending themselves from violent criminals with no regard for the law, hellbent on KILLING YOU AND RAPING YOUR FAMILY.

[BustaNinja]

I made an observation that I would like to share and I may sound like a jerk for saying it and I am sorry for that. However, something I noticed about America, It seams to have some of the losest gun laws in the western world but also some of the most parinoid people. Has any Governer or Minister or the President (whom ever makes these kinds of desitions) every thought of tightening said laws. I mean, do you know how hard it is to get a gun in Australia. In fact, I figured I might import a paintball gun, or maybe a paintball gun tank to use for nerfing. Turns out if I try to import any paintball equipment AT ALL I will cop a $10,000 fine and 2 years in jail, minimum.

The mass media is to blame for the mass paranoia present in the US, they sensationalize and demonize what they see fit to sell crap, brainwash the population, and force their beliefs on us.

Extreme gun laws make it hard for honest people to LEGALLY acquire firearms and in the process, LEGALLY defend themselves with said LEGAL firearm, tighter gun laws only worsen crime as honest citizens will have even fewer ways of defending themselves from violent criminals with no regard for the law, hellbent on KILLING YOU AND RAPING YOUR FAMILY.

That was actually an interesting article I read. Criminals don't really care about cops, they are more worried about your average citizen packing heat, as cops can't shoot right away, and a citizen can.

That being said, if you are planning on doing this on campus, then go around and ask people. Take a large demographic poll. If the general population is ok with this, bring it to your administrator. Most administrators will be alot more willing to allow stuff if you go out and do the work, and are more likely to allow it. Any work the don't have to do is good, and you showing that you care about the student population will butter them up so to speak.

[J cobbers]

The concern from this board is that the 150 or so students that were in the room when the shooting happened at NIU is that the sight of the NERF stuff will trigger PTSD flashbacks. Upon talking with some of the students and the department involved, none of the people at the shooting were contacted by the board about this, the board just presumed they weren't healed yet and went ahead and are trying to shut us down.

Ah that explains it. Well you know what they say about assuming things. Ask the board to make the contacts. Explain steps that your group would take to deal with the possibility of running into someone who was involved in the incident. Show that your group is sympathetic to the issue, but also that you have a legitimate organization with a worthwhile team building activity. Stress the positives of playing zombies, the organization and networking required. Games like this allow a lot of people to interact who wouldn't have otherwise. Don't let the board shape the issue in to a single narrow focus, i.e. OH NOES THEY ARE PLAYING WITH TOY GUNS!

If they give you a hard line on Nerf guns, silly string is always a viable option.

I made an observation that I would like to share and I may sound like a jerk for saying it and I am sorry for that. However, something I noticed about America, It seams to have some of the losest gun laws in the western world but also some of the most parinoid people. Has any Governer or Minister or the President (whom ever makes these kinds of decisions) ever thought of tightening said laws. I mean, do you know how hard it is to get a gun in Australia. In fact, I figured I might import a paintball gun, or maybe a paintball gun tank to use for nerfing. Turns out if I try to import any paintball equipment AT ALL I will cop a $10,000 fine and 2 years in jail, minimum.

Naw you're not a jerk, you just don't know about U.S. gun laws. There is a mandatory background check for buying guns, done these days by a computer system. However there are some loop holes, included for people who are licensed as gun dealer and gun shows so it's not a perfect system. As for why any American who doesn't have a felony on their record can buy a gun? It's in our Constitution's bill of rights, the Second amendment protects the right to bear arms. Goes back to our colonial days when we decided to rebel, and much of our weapons were those owned by private citizens. The Revolution wouldn't have been possible without it, and the early government believed to remain independent of tyrannous foreign powers, the individual citizen needed to be able to have access to weapons. It is still a very hot issue in the U.S. and some people do favor tighter controls, while others want even less. So there is a lot of back and forth and individual states have some tighter controls on ownership and where you can carry guns that others.

Edited by J_cobbers, 27 September 2008 - 10:34 AM.

[washedup]

I don't think the answer is trying the change the mind of your college. If the college bans you, does that really keep you from playing? It's like if your driving privledge is suspended, do you forget how to drive? No. Keep your club on the down low, like someone else suggested and nerf somewhere else. It might be the best thing to do until this thing blows over, which could take quite a while. Try and empathize with the victems here and the college staff. After a situation like a shooting, would you like to see a bunch of people running around shooting each other? It may sound silly, but you got to think about others feelings as well as your own. Hope this helps and good luck.

[mocky]

It's a shame that there's such a crackdown on nerf esp. on campus. Maybe all that is really needed is a nice forum with all parties present to discuss the issue, and perhaps terms and conditions that would satisfy all. But with all that said, there is always a nut with some unreasonable phobia/hate of young adults playing with plastic brightly gun-shaped, foam shooting blasters. If the students were 8y/o they could be playing airsoft guns with bayonets and all the parents would be laughing and saying "AW how cute, they're playing army men".

I live in Australia which is pretty much gun free, and somehow people here are still have this unhealthy phobia of all things gunshaped. It only takes one idiot to ruin it for every one else, so it's our duty to spread the positives of NERF, and shun those who persist to give the sport a bad reputation.

[Aimless]

It's a shame that there's such a crackdown on nerf esp. on campus. Maybe all that is really needed is a nice forum with all parties present to discuss the issue, and perhaps terms and conditions that would satisfy all. But with all that said, there is always a nut with some unreasonable phobia/hate of young adults playing with plastic brightly gun-shaped, foam shooting blasters. If the students were 8y/o they could be playing airsoft guns with bayonets and all the parents would be laughing and saying "AW how cute, they're playing army men".

I live in Australia which is pretty much gun free, and somehow people here are still have this unhealthy phobia of all things gunshaped. It only takes one idiot to ruin it for every one else, so it's our duty to spread the positives of NERF, and shun those who persist to give the sport a bad reputation.

Actually, if 8y/o kids were running around with airsoft guns, they would all be placed under psychiatric observation as most people would think "OMG! They're going to become school shooters!". As for people with unreasonable hate/fear of firearms, the media is to blame so is the government, civilian marksmanship programs SHOULD be a mandatory requirement for citizens. As for the people who persist to give Nerf and other combat simulation sports a bad name, they usually happen to be government officials who CAN AND WILL find a way to ban your sport and jail you for ridiculous charges.

Edited by Aimless, 27 September 2008 - 01:01 PM.

[Father Nerf]

Naw you're not a jerk, you just don't know about U.S. gun laws. There is a mandatory background check for buying guns, done these days by a computer system. However there are some loop holes, included for people who are licensed as gun dealer and gun shows so it's not a perfect system. As for why any American who doesn't have a felony on their record can buy a gun? It's in our Constitution's bill of rights, the Second amendment protects the right to bear arms. Goes back to our colonial days when we decided to rebel, and much of our weapons were those owned by private citizens. The Revolution wouldn't have been possible without it, and the early government believed to remain independent of tyrannous foreign powers, the individual citizen needed to be able to have access to weapons. It is still a very hot issue in the U.S. and some people do favor tighter controls, while others want even less. So there is a lot of back and forth and individual states have some tighter controls on ownership and where you can carry guns that others.

Ah, Fair enough. I guess you can't just dismiss the fact that the whole nation was built on average citizens owning firearms, and that it is more of a traditional thought then a practical one. Kinda like Aussies being allowed to play 2-Up on Anzac day.