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How Tight Should They Be?


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#1 jackster57

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 07:26 AM

Fist off yes, the title is a that's what she said joke on purpose.

Now for my real question. How tight do I want my darts in their barrel? I am using a Maxshot and will soon upgrade to a ETRL pump action shotgun. My stefans are tight in cpvc. While I do not have to twist them in, I can NOT blow them down the barrel what-so-ever. In 17/32nds brass the fit is similar to cpvc but a bit looser. In PETG my darts are very loose. They are about as loose as can be without sliding up and down. I can NOT slide the darts by shaking the PETG though. I am using a CPVC coupler on my maxshot as of now, with 9'' of CPVC. My question to you guys is "What type of barrel set-up should I use in my high powered springers? I can never really get a straight answer. Because I have never warred with anyone besides my inexperienced friends I am unsure of which barrel set up will give me the best range/accuracy. Also I am using both C_S style felt and washer stefans along with 3 copper bb stefans. Please help me put an end to this on going question in my head.

Thanks,
Jack
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#2 Natbeanz

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 07:32 AM

Look up CXWQ's 'Guide to barreling material' (or somthing like that), i personally would use cpvc but thats my opinion.

Hope that helped

-NB
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#3 mystefansdontflystraight

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 07:44 AM

You took the turret off my old maxshot? Oh well. I would strongly reccomend a nested brass barrel of 3 inches of 17/32 nested into 9 inches of 9/16, all nested in PVC, and jammed into a coupler. I tried this, and I have very similar fitting darts to you (tight in CPVC, and loose in OMC petg)
Hope this helps.
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QUOTE(Blacksunshine @ Dec 24 2009, 02:15 PM) View Post

QUOTE(white moonlight @ Dec 23 2009, 01:29 PM) View Post

It's just screaming to be rearloading...

I seen a movie about that once.



#4 jackster57

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 07:47 AM

You took the turret off my old maxshot? Oh well. I would strongly reccomend a nested brass barrel of 3 inches of 17/32 nested into 9 inches of 9/16, all nested in PVC, and jammed into a coupler. I tried this, and I have very similar fitting darts to you (tight in CPVC, and loose in OMC petg)
Hope this helps.


Sorry, but yes I did take the turret off of the maxshot. It got to be a pain, and its range was only OK. Thanks for the advice about the barrel set up. And the maxshot is still holding strong.
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#5 Z4

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 07:49 AM

Sounds like you have darts that are almost identical to mine. I use CPVC for all my springers, and 17/32 or 9/16" brass for air guns.
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#6 Split

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 08:33 AM

I think you guys are insane personally. The darts sound like they have the most perfect fit in Petg, which is really all you can ask for. Your best best is probably a straight Petg barrel, or a 17/32" brass nested in the Petg. What's so great about the nested one is that when you're in a war, you can use practically anyone's darts. And if your Maxshot doesn't vacuum load, just make a breech with 5/8" brass as a slide (instructions Part 4.2 of my Vulcan Overhaul).

Z4: Why would you use a looser material for air guns? They generally like tighter barrels. Nat, you should never have to twist the darts into the barrel, especially for a springer.

Edited by Splitlip, 07 September 2008 - 08:34 AM.

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#7 Rogue Warrior

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 09:35 AM

Well on guns like the longshot, CPVC is good and PETG is not. 17/32 brass sounds like a perfect fit.

@ SplitLip You use a less tight barrel material because most of them release their air in a pop except for the titan and LBB. Spring powered blasters need tighter barrels because they need to build up pressure.
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#8 Z4

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 06:53 PM

Splitlip: I don't really know why, I had always read that air guns got best results with looser barrels, so I did that. I do have a CPVCed 2k though, and it works great.
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#9 bartel

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 08:08 PM

No matter what you do make sure they don't fall out when you aim down. I almost got killed in our assassins game just ten minutes ago when my neighbor let my friend into my house and he went down the stairs and my dart fell out before I fired.(<--I know run on sentence)

I believe it was Forsaken_angel who said: Just tight enough that they don't fall out when you point the barrel at the ground and shake. (or something like that)
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#10 CaptainSlug

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 09:33 PM

Optimal fit is slightly dependent upon the output of the blaster you are making a barrel for. High-power air guns need a slightly looser fit than spring-plunger blasters do.

Edited by CaptainSlug, 07 September 2008 - 09:36 PM.

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#11 imaseoulman

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 09:48 PM

While we're on the topic, has anybody done any empirical testing with telescopic barrels for springers? I plan on doing some testing with this soon, but it would be nice to have a starting point (what has or hasn't worked in the past).

Also I did some testing today with various stefans (including CTD's) and determined that barrel fit makes a very significant difference (duh). The darts that were TOO loose and would fall out quite easily when the barrel is pointed a little downward flew the farthest by a significant margin. They aren't practical for a war, but for just messing around with, they are quite fun.

I have concluded that the best dart fit for a high powered air blaster is:
Tight enough that the darts won't fall out when shaken and can comfortably be blown through the barrel.

I'm still looking for the magical fit for spring powered blasters.
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#12 mintee

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 03:07 AM

From what I've read in the older barrel selection guides/threads:
  • barrels should be tight enough to hold the dart, but not so tight that you need to twist the dart in. Should vacuum load with a bit of resistance, not too easily.
  • springers should have a tighter barrel than air guns.
Why should springers have a tighter barrel than air guns? Because air guns store pressurized air in tanks before releasing it into the barrel. Springers, on the other hand, create air pressure by rapidly compressing the air in the plunger tube. The back of the dart acts like part of that plunger - by blocking the air from exiting the barrel, the dart allows the air in the plunger to reach higher pressure. The tighter the barrel and the stronger the spring, the higher the air pressure the gun can create. Once there is enough pressure to overcome the friction between the dart and the barrel to move the dart, the dart fires and pressure dissipates.

However, if you make it too tight, it becomes detrimental to the gun's power. If the dart is too tight, there is too much friction between the barrel and dart and not enough pressure to move the dart out of the barrel. Shortening the barrel reduces accuracy, and wastes air pressure which would be used to further push the dart out of the barrel. Therefore, the key is to find the optimal barrel length and fit.

Air guns do not need barrels as tight as springers because the air is already pressurized once it reaches the dart - the barrels are there to guide the dart in a straight line for accuracy and to channel the air behind the dart.

Or something along those lines.
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