16 replies to this topic

[TimmyTown]

So today I picked up the hyperfire set, its actually pretty great. Comes with 2 of those little pistols which are actually pretty decent and two DTBs. I only bought this set because I am doing a massive ground up project and this is just a small piece of it, however it is very crucial to the weapon as a whole, I am keeping this under wraps until it is a masterpiece.

So I opened up the DTB, took out the ARs, replaced the barrells with 5 inch CPVC, replaced the spring with an NF spring (and even combined the two on some occasions), and internally banded it. The gun as far as I can see should be getting the same ranges as a banded NF, but its not at all. The darts get halfway down the barrel-barely sticking out. They wont shoot, I have no idea why. CPVC is my universal barrel material and these darts work in my NFs that are CPVCed and all. Before I added all 10 barrels to the turret, I tested it with 1 barrel, the dart easily got 40-50 feet, which is still underperforming. Can anyone shed some light on this situation?

If there is another, HAS to be spring, turret gun that you would reccomend using instead that would be great. Problem is the DTB is just freaking amazingly perfect for what I need it for.

EDIT: I can post pictures tomorrow most likely, just tell me what to take pictures of. I think if you own a DTB and have looked inside you should know what im talking about however.

Edited by TimmyTown, 07 September 2008 - 01:18 AM.

[bobafan]

It sounds to me like the barrel materiel is too tight. But then again, I'm having DTG problems also although with stock barrels.

[Retiate]

It could possibly be that all the added CPVC is too heavy for it so it doesn't rotate the turret all the way when you fire. That would explain why it doesn't shoot out the barrel now, but did with just the one barrel.

[CaptainSlug]

5 inches seems way too generous of a barrel length to be.
You have to keep in mind that the DTB has more dead-space than a well modified Nite Finder.

Edited by CaptainSlug, 07 September 2008 - 01:28 AM.

[TimmyTown]

It could possibly be that all the added CPVC is too heavy for it so it doesn't rotate the turret all the way when you fire. That would explain why it doesn't shoot out the barrel now, but did with just the one barrel.

I checked that however. The turret is rotating beautifully. That is the main advantage of this gun is that way the turret rotates, its a direct rotation mech, which means that it can turn massive weight.

I will look into that some more tomorrow. I did notice something very strange however, there is NO seal between the plunger tube and the turret. Does anyone know what the springy why piece does? The one between the turret and the plunger tube? Maybe if I just replaced that with CPVC and such.

I am positive it is not too tight though. With the power it is putting out it cannot be the tightness of the barrels, especially since I can just blow down the barrel to get the dart down.

Edited by TimmyTown, 07 September 2008 - 01:29 AM.

[CaptainSlug]

Does anyone know what the springy why piece does? The one between the turret and the plunger tube?

It's there to bridge the gap between the two.

[TimmyTown]

Does anyone know what the springy why piece does? The one between the turret and the plunger tube?

It's there to bridge the gap between the two.

Seriously? That is ridiculously stupid. I may experiament with some cpvc between the two and an O ring at the tip, I think it would be far more airtight.

Another question, what in the hell is all the white junk all over the place? I think it is some kind of lube but unless its for impregnating magstrikes there are far better ways to bridge the gap.

[TimmyTown]

Seriously? That is ridiculously stupid. I may experiament with some cpvc between the two and an O ring at the tip, I think it would be far more airtight.

It only needs to be sealed during the firing cycle. It's actually better if it's loose otherwise. A small amount of motion there (just as in the Maverick) is sound engineering, too often overlooked by modders who may be handy with hot glue but lack real understanding of the physics involved.

Yeah to maxmimize turret efficiency. It allows the turret to move more easily. But with a lubricated O ring the same effect should be achived no?

Either way I still dont know what my problem is. This is starting to piss me off, seeing as how this is such a key component in the design.

Is there a DTB mod I can do with pictures and such that WORK? I have looked at a few but they dont have working pictures or anything. A good DTB mod though, I mean 60+ feet at least...

[TimmyTown]

Is there a DTB mod I can do with pictures and such that WORK? I have looked at a few but they dont have working pictures or anything. A good DTB mod though, I mean 60+ feet at least...

I doubt it. It's not that much better than a Maverick.

Have you seen any reliable instructions for 50' Mav mods? 40?

Mavs are actually a LOT worse then the DTB. Simply because of the plunger and design. The spring on the maverick is pitiful, it really is. Not that the DTB is much better but a NF spring slides on the plunger rod of the DTB just perfectly. The plunger tube on the mav is also very small and insufficient. There is also a location in the maverick, between the cylinder and the gun, where there is just a gap. As far as I can tell, if a mod goes correctly with internal banding and such, the DTB should be tagging 60-70'. It should be performing similar to the NF but a bit worse due to the barrell not being directly on the plunger tube.

5 inches seems way too generous of a barrel length to be.

What length would you suggest? I am now realizing that the barrell length is probably the culprit here. I forgot that the DTB has almost a kind of internal barrell system. I think I will cut it down to about 3.5 inches tomorrow, does that sound good sluggy? How do you effectively internally band this SOB? I mean I saw something about it in a thread but all of his links were broken... Can someone show me a picture of how to internally band the damn thing?

[BustaNinja]

the movement in the sealing piece makes it so it can adjust to different angles and still get about the same performance. Much like the breech in the AK47, the magazines are very loose by most standards, but by being able to move with the receiver, they feed effectively every time, and thus, never jam. NEVER.

Same with the movement in the maverick, but i got good luck with my Mav/BBBB and by pushing it all the way forward, I got a near perfect seal.

Use stock barrels. CPVC is hard to mess around with on those guns, and stock barrels perform great in the DTB. They have a good seal and everything.

[hereticorp]

I barely get 65-75' out of a BBBB+DTB integration, I think 60' out of a modified DTB is a little optimistic.

As for the problems, I personally would stick with stock barrels on a DTB and just yank the AR. The plunger tube is basically the FireFly with about an inch less throw distance, and my PETG modded FireFly doesn't get 60' ranges.

You can see here how I just forced the end of the DTB barrel out to press up against the turret and lubed the hell out of it, it works fine at that point.



You may also want to look at my BBBB+DTB Integration to see how I modified the barrel so that it always pressed hard against the turret.

Edited by hereticorp, 07 September 2008 - 10:05 AM.

[TimmyTown]

I took apart the other DTB and stole its turret. Inside of the the modded DTB is now an NF spring and just the original turret with ARs removed. The damn thing barely gets 40'. This will be a close combat weapon, its an integration, to just spray out 10 darts quickly but the fact is that 30-40' is DISMAL. Unfortunately the DTB is the only gun fit for the job im afraid.

However there will be 2 other air guns in the weapon when its all said and done so maybe I can hook up an air tank to it and just use the pump there to connect it, much like the BBBB DTG.

[CaptainSlug]

This will be a close combat weapon, its an integration, to just spray out 10 darts quickly but the fact is that 30-40' is DISMAL.

Boohoo. If it's for close quarters, 30-40' feet is fine.
The only way to get anymore than that from a DTB is to either replace the stock plunger with something more powerful, or remove all of the dead space inbetween the plunger head and the darts. I'm working on this now, but it's going to involve cutting down the from of the base piece of the turret using the knee mill at work.

Edited by CaptainSlug, 07 September 2008 - 02:12 PM.

[hereticorp]

This will be a close combat weapon, its an integration, to just spray out 10 darts quickly but the fact is that 30-40' is DISMAL.

Boohoo. If it's for close quarters, 30-40' feet is fine.

Seriously, if you think 30-40 feet is too short for close combat, you need to redefine close combat.

City-Fight and Office-Fight locations rarely have a need for ranges longer than that, and that's what I define as close combat.

[TimmyTown]

Haha fine. It will work for what its purpose is, aside from those 10 I will still have 7 other higher power shots to blow away in the final product.

Now if you wouldnt mind helping me with the hose problem posted on the front page as well that would be flipping amazing. I am trying to post pictures but I cant find the damn camera cable. I have the whole assembly right here on the camera and nothing to connect it to the computer with. Seriously though I really need help on that one.


DTB problems resolved.

[AJZ]

Ahh shit. Thanks a lot Slug, I never saw that DTG + AT3K mod. Shit, I really wanted to invent something. Well I guess it'll make my efforts easier, but hopefully I will make mine a bit cleaner and innovative. I have my AT3K's coming and a Target close by so hopefully I will be able to make it by next Monday.

[CaliforniaPants]

If it still matters, I had this same problem. CS is right saying the barrels are too long. I used about two inches of cpvc and it works perfectly fine for moderate range.