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Integrating The Vulcan In To A Squad

Can it be done?

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#1 Nerf 808

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Posted 17 August 2008 - 12:13 AM

(Was decideing between this topic and the Nerf Wars Topic, if it is wrong then please say so and i can repost it there)

Well i recently brought my Vulcan to an Outside war, we squaded up and devided, Now this was a bit different because i usually bring along a Longshot or Recon.

Well i got destoryed the first 2 rounds because of the dreadful reloading time, but when we played CTF i destyoryed them with the stationary Vulcan.

My question is, what the best way to Integrate an Vulcan in to a four man squad?

my Squads plan was to have one person guard me so when i need to reload he can cover me while i change belts.

but most of you on here are Veteran Nerfers, and have alot of experence, so i'm asking for your ideas and opinions.

Can it be done?

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#2 Cmdrmack

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Posted 17 August 2008 - 12:28 AM

Of course it can be done. Any blaster can be used in a group. One just needs to assess the strengths and weaknesses of the blaster and find ways to compliment it. The vulcan is high ROF low range, but great for sustained fire. It does very well for covering choke points and providing suppressive fire while other group members flank. Don't be afraid to arc shots with the vulcan to make up for its low ranges.
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#3 Nerf 808

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Posted 17 August 2008 - 12:33 AM

Of course it can be done. Any blaster can be used in a group. One just needs to assess the strengths and weaknesses of the blaster and find ways to compliment it. The vulcan is high ROF low range, but great for sustained fire. It does very well for covering choke points and providing suppressive fire while other group members flank. Don't be afraid to arc shots with the vulcan to make up for its low ranges.


That Choke Point sounds good, i should thry that at the next nerf war, There's no shortage of choke points in the area we play in,

Thanks!

Edited by Nerf 808, 17 August 2008 - 12:34 AM.

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#4 g-force

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Posted 17 August 2008 - 12:59 AM

Or integrate a long ranged gun into it to make up for range.
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QUOTE(Carbon @ Jul 28 2008, 03:25 AM) View Post

My god, you actually built it. To that, all I can say is, "bravo".

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#5 mintee

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Posted 17 August 2008 - 02:56 AM

Any blaster can be used in a group. One just needs to assess the strengths and weaknesses of the blaster and find ways to compliment it.

Compliment =/= Complement, though you got the meaning right. :)

Anyways. I think the biggest issue here is its weight-to-range ratio. This kind of heavy, unwieldy gun is difficult to sprint with to close in on your target and get within accurate range. I mean honestly, I can outshoot a Vulcan user outdoors with a Disc Shot pistol. How are you supposed to get within range of your opponent when it's so heavy and bulky?

This is where I agree: Cmdrmack is right. Take advantage of the gun's great ROF and sustained fire to put pressure on your enemy while avoiding moving too much.
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#6 Nerf 808

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Posted 17 August 2008 - 03:43 AM

Any blaster can be used in a group. One just needs to assess the strengths and weaknesses of the blaster and find ways to compliment it.

Compliment =/= Complement, though you got the meaning right. :)

Anyways. I think the biggest issue here is its weight-to-range ratio. This kind of heavy, unwieldy gun is difficult to sprint with to close in on your target and get within accurate range. I mean honestly, I can outshoot a Vulcan user outdoors with a Disc Shot pistol. How are you supposed to get within range of your opponent when it's so heavy and bulky?

This is where I agree: Cmdrmack is right. Take advantage of the gun's great ROF and sustained fire to put pressure on your enemy while avoiding moving too much.


I get what your saying, i tried rushing someone but the heavy gun makes this impossable. But heres the problem when i'm stationary, pinning down the enemy, what if i get out flanked by the enemy? is there a way to cover this?

Edited by Nerf 808, 17 August 2008 - 03:47 AM.

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#7 bartel

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Posted 17 August 2008 - 10:43 AM

Another vulcan. Or three more vulcans. Yeah, that would work. Just kidding. I think a Longshot would be a good compliment. It has a high enough rate of fire to hold off any chargers on the vulcan operator while reloading. It gets better ranges than the vulcan so I think a vulcan, LS, and something with higher range. Let's say the titan, just to keep it all n-strike.
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#8 analogkid

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Posted 17 August 2008 - 10:52 AM

Anyways. I think the biggest issue here is its weight-to-range ratio. This kind of heavy, unwieldy gun is difficult to sprint with to close in on your target and get within accurate range.

I hate to disagree, but I had the privilege of using one of these during a round at our clan war yesterday. I kicked ass with it, was able to rush two people with a +bow and a BBB respectively, and had no problem moving around with it. It actually feels quite nice, and is easy to shoot from the hip with. I suppose this could just be me though. The only way to effectively use the Vulcan in a team is to back it up with some higher ranged shots, and use it as suppressive fire.

Edited by analogkid, 17 August 2008 - 10:53 AM.

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#9 Oni Kadaki

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Posted 17 August 2008 - 11:04 AM

First off, are you guys playing with stock guns? I'm guessing you are because of your mention of recons.

If that assumption is correct, then it's not so much about squad-based weapon selection as knowing how to arrange your gear for maximum efficiency, as well as just becoming really comfortable with the vulcan. For example, my current nerf battle gear (which worked wonderfully yesterday) revolves around a photographer's vest I got back in May. While wearing this vest, I can comfortably wear the following:

4 LS/Recon clips (2 in each breast pocket)
1 spare vulcan belt (Lower right hand pocket)
Recon "laser" and n-strike tactical light (1 in each pocket below the breast pockets)
Spy gear wireless tracking system (Above the breast pockets)
Recon pistol (Rear pocket)

I keep my vulcan strapped across my back and over my left shoulder. This leaves the handle within easy reach of my left hand (For reference, i'm a righty) and the grip below the barrel within easy reach of my right. This setup allows me to comfortably hold the vulcan in a rifle-like manner, yet be able to simply let go of it and grab for my recon at a moment's notice.

All this is to say the the vulcan can be perfectly fine as a primary without regard to your overall role in the squad so long as you equip yourself accordingly. Have a sidearm, and be able to switch from the vulcan to said sidearm comfortably and quickly. That way, even though having people to cover you while you reload with lighter weaponry would be nice, you can be entirely self sufficient if you need to be, and consequently can perform any role the squad requires at any given time, as opposed to being stuck in a supporting role.
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#10 Pineapple

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Posted 17 August 2008 - 12:28 PM

Hey 808, YOU HAVE A VULCAN?

Where did you get it, please?

I'm flying in to Honolulu for business this week (sorry can't meet you this time), and my son really wants one. My nephew too, so I might do some early Christmas shopping.



I don't have any practical advice, since we don't do a whole lot of indoor warring (except when we do room-clearing exercises at our facility), but what intrigues me is the new dimension the Vulcan brings into indoor war play as far as fully-automatic weapons go.

As Oni and the others have mentioned, you gotta assess the Vulcan's advantages and disadvantages, then use whatever other weaponry to create efficiency. I was just thinking how the Magstrike/Powerclip spits out a clip of 10 rounds in about 2 seconds, how the RapidFire 20 unloads 20 darts in about 4-5 seconds, and how the Vulcan can do (can it?) a 50 round belt, firing about 2-3 rounds per second. You have a nice varying firepower assortment to work with, if you have other weaponry! And of course your long-range stuff like X-bows, AT2ks, etc.

Wow. A far cry from my days 6-7 years ago with SM1500s and a handful of darts. We thought 1 round every 3-4 seconds was rapid fire.



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#11 Nerf 808

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Posted 17 August 2008 - 01:34 PM

Hey 808, YOU HAVE A VULCAN?

Where did you get it, please?

I'm flying in to Honolulu for business this week (sorry can't meet you this time), and my son really wants one. My nephew too, so I might do some early Christmas shopping.



I don't have any practical advice, since we don't do a whole lot of indoor warring (except when we do room-clearing exercises at our facility), but what intrigues me is the new dimension the Vulcan brings into indoor war play as far as fully-automatic weapons go.

As Oni and the others have mentioned, you gotta assess the Vulcan's advantages and disadvantages, then use whatever other weaponry to create efficiency. I was just thinking how the Magstrike/Powerclip spits out a clip of 10 rounds in about 2 seconds, how the RapidFire 20 unloads 20 darts in about 4-5 seconds, and how the Vulcan can do (can it?) a 50 round belt, firing about 2-3 rounds per second. You have a nice varying firepower assortment to work with, if you have other weaponry! And of course your long-range stuff like X-bows, AT2ks, etc.

Wow. A far cry from my days 6-7 years ago with SM1500s and a handful of darts. We thought 1 round every 3-4 seconds was rapid fire.



-Piney-


I see....i think this is the advice that i need, so i should have a sidearm with me (Never thought of that......) And for Piney, check the this link http://nerfhaven.com...ic=10943&st=345

thanks for the advice everyone!

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#12 venom213

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Posted 17 August 2008 - 01:58 PM

At my birthday war, we used my friends Vulcan in a group in a game called VIP Infection, which is pretty much VIP, except the attackers are zombies, and the defenders have low power guns. Anyway, everyone was given a maverick as a party favor, so we had two people with mavericks, the VIP had a a NF, and the other person had the Vulcan. Of course the zombies never won. In an regular war, you would want longer range weapons to go with the Vulcan, as previously stated.
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#13 Oni Kadaki

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Posted 17 August 2008 - 11:23 PM

I tested my vest/recon/vulcan setup at a 10 person war today. Over the course of several hours, the vulcan proved itself a very formidable weapon in stock games, and my recon played its role as a sidearm perfectly. I found that using the single shot mode worked wonders to conserve ammo. By doing this, I turned my vulcan into, essentially, a high capacity longshot. I did, of course, use the fully automatic function, but only when the enemy was grouped into a tight formation, in which it wreaked havoc like no other primary i've ever seen. The slower rate of fire than the RF20 and/or magstrike makes it much more controllable and easy to adjust for range and cover.

I'm afraid my longshot, one of my favorite guns of all time, will have to be content with lighter skirmishes, because the vulcan is my new primary of choice for heavy wars/raids.

Oh, and happy birthday Venom.

Edited by Oni Kadaki, 17 August 2008 - 11:24 PM.

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#14 mintee

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Posted 18 August 2008 - 02:00 AM

I get what your saying, i tried rushing someone but the heavy gun makes this impossable. But heres the problem when i'm stationary, pinning down the enemy, what if i get out flanked by the enemy? is there a way to cover this?

A sidearm. Doesn't matter what, as long as you've got a reliable backup of some sort.

I hate to disagree, but I had the privilege of using one of these during a round at our clan war yesterday. I kicked ass with it, was able to rush two people with a +bow and a BBB respectively, and had no problem moving around with it. It actually feels quite nice, and is easy to shoot from the hip with. I suppose this could just be me though.


If you're strong enough to run with it and do what you feel is necessary (dodge, duck, jump, aim awkwardly yet accurately) then you've overcome one of the gun's weaknesses. I don't see rushing against two people with single-shot weapons all that difficult with a Vulcan, but when it comes to higher rate-of-fire guns it would just be pointless, and I'd rather outrange them.

All this is to say the the vulcan can be perfectly fine as a primary without regard to your overall role in the squad so long as you equip yourself accordingly. Have a sidearm, and be able to switch from the vulcan to said sidearm comfortably and quickly. That way, even though having people to cover you while you reload with lighter weaponry would be nice, you can be entirely self sufficient if you need to be, and consequently can perform any role the squad requires at any given time, as opposed to being stuck in a supporting role.


I'd like to add to that: since the Vulcan is inherently difficult to sprint with, you won't be doing much of it, and since you won't be sprinting much, you can afford to arm yourself with weapons that would otherwise weigh you down. Get weapons which can be carried via holster or strap. Use these weapons to provide your own backup in the case of a flank or a jam in your primary.
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#15 durka durka

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Posted 18 August 2008 - 07:19 AM

min.tee is right. ALWAYS carry a sidearm. I tried nerfing with the vulcan, and it was pretty effective( I was using it as a stationary weapon). However the Vulcan starts to suck when you get to the point where you have to reload your 25 shot belts (I have 3). I would have lost if it wasn't for my dual NFs.
Moral of the story: Have a sidearm during every war. buy a NF and mod it ( basic AR removal is super easy).
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#16 Nerf 808

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Posted 18 August 2008 - 10:57 PM

min.tee is right. ALWAYS carry a sidearm. I tried nerfing with the vulcan, and it was pretty effective( I was using it as a stationary weapon). However the Vulcan starts to suck when you get to the point where you have to reload your 25 shot belts (I have 3). I would have lost if it wasn't for my dual NFs.
Moral of the story: Have a sidearm during every war. buy a NF and mod it ( basic AR removal is super easy).



i Have a Recon, buts its range is crap, looking to buy a Mav.... If thats a good choice of sidearm
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#17 Oni Kadaki

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Posted 18 August 2008 - 11:52 PM

If you don't like the recon you'll hate the maverick. The only advantages the maverick has on the recon are that it's more ergonomic and can take more kinds of darts. That said, if you'tre playing stock, which I suspect you are, then either one should complement your vulcan just fine. If not, try a nitefinder, those get great range when modded, and are so easy to mod that even I can do it.
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#18 Nerf 808

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Posted 18 August 2008 - 11:58 PM

If you don't like the recon you'll hate the maverick. The only advantages the maverick has on the recon are that it's more ergonomic and can take more kinds of darts. That said, if you'tre playing stock, which I suspect you are, then either one should complement your vulcan just fine. If not, try a nitefinder, those get great range when modded, and are so easy to mod that even I can do it.



dunno, kind of new to the Moding world, i'll give it a try though
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#19 Aj

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 08:06 AM

My answer is synonymous with the rest, heck yes is can be integrated.

As far as giving out advice or tactics a little more information on what kind of war you're fighting would go a long way such as:

Do you all play with stock guns?
Are there rules against modded guns?
Are you nerfing outdoors or indoors?
What size are your wars (people per team)?

As stated before, you need to make sure you use the Vulcan in situations where its strengths are maximized and its weaknesses are minimized. Don't bring a knife to a gunfight, bring a gun to a knife fight.

1-2 Sidearms are good. The Recon you have in pistol mode with some extra clips and a NF/DS with a nice simple barrel mod and banding will give you a nice balance of range and ROF for sidearms.

Here are a couple of generic tactics that work in both indoors and outdoors, they all involve using cover to gain an advantage; as a Vulcan is about as useful as a milkshake in an open field battle. You'll have a welt on your neck from a x-bow before you can get within twice your range.

In both cases I have assumed that you are the one with the Vulcan, however if you're co-ordinating the squad you can ask your Vulcan (or RF20, both work for suppression) wielder to fill these roles.

The first one is just basically..... "How to whore a choke point"..... Don't get too greedy, don't camp. Switch sides often and after a few kills find a new choke point - unless you have backup to protect your flanks. Remember - a dart in the head makes people learn quickly.

Keep moving as the arrows suggest, both within your fire zones and side to side; otherwise people will know where to aim.

Though I have only put one enemy in the diagram the idea is to do it to a group, where the ROF and the large ammo supply of the Vulcan really shine. Otherwise its just a plain ambush really and a skilled player could do it with a scout..

Posted Image

The next is an offensive or defensive tactic. Basically just a fire suppression tactic, I'm sure that everybody has heard of these. If your attacking its a good way to overwhelm dug in enemies. Pin them then mop them up. Having your squad advance from either side simultaneously (called a 'pincer' movement) works great.

f you're defending its much quicker to have your squad counter attack than to get in a long drawn out firefight. By ending it quickly it make sure the enemy doesn't get a chance to flank you. Its up to you to assess the situation; don't send your squad out if the enemy isn't truly pinned or they'll probably take heavy losses.

Posted Image

I hope thats at least a little helpful and didn't bore the veterans to death, more specific tactics could be suggested if you provide more info.

Aj

Edited by -Aj-, 19 August 2008 - 09:41 AM.

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#20 Nerf 808

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 10:50 PM

My answer is synonymous with the rest, heck yes is can be integrated.

As far as giving out advice or tactics a little more information on what kind of war you're fighting would go a long way such as:

Do you all play with stock guns?
Are there rules against modded guns?
Are you nerfing outdoors or indoors?
What size are your wars (people per team)?

As stated before, you need to make sure you use the Vulcan in situations where its strengths are maximized and its weaknesses are minimized. Don't bring a knife to a gunfight, bring a gun to a knife fight.

1-2 Sidearms are good. The Recon you have in pistol mode with some extra clips and a NF/DS with a nice simple barrel mod and banding will give you a nice balance of range and ROF for sidearms.

Here are a couple of generic tactics that work in both indoors and outdoors, they all involve using cover to gain an advantage; as a Vulcan is about as useful as a milkshake in an open field battle. You'll have a welt on your neck from a x-bow before you can get within twice your range.

In both cases I have assumed that you are the one with the Vulcan, however if you're co-ordinating the squad you can ask your Vulcan (or RF20, both work for suppression) wielder to fill these roles.

The first one is just basically..... "How to whore a choke point"..... Don't get too greedy, don't camp. Switch sides often and after a few kills find a new choke point - unless you have backup to protect your flanks. Remember - a dart in the head makes people learn quickly.

Keep moving as the arrows suggest, both within your fire zones and side to side; otherwise people will know where to aim.

Though I have only put one enemy in the diagram the idea is to do it to a group, where the ROF and the large ammo supply of the Vulcan really shine. Otherwise its just a plain ambush really and a skilled player could do it with a scout..

Posted Image

The next is an offensive or defensive tactic. Basically just a fire suppression tactic, I'm sure that everybody has heard of these. If your attacking its a good way to overwhelm dug in enemies. Pin them then mop them up. Having your squad advance from either side simultaneously (called a 'pincer' movement) works great.

f you're defending its much quicker to have your squad counter attack than to get in a long drawn out firefight. By ending it quickly it make sure the enemy doesn't get a chance to flank you. Its up to you to assess the situation; don't send your squad out if the enemy isn't truly pinned or they'll probably take heavy losses.

Posted Image

I hope thats at least a little helpful and didn't bore the veterans to death, more specific tactics could be suggested if you provide more info.

Aj


If it helps for the others out there, i'll get some pics up showing the field we play at....expect those in about a week (school and all)
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#21 Ubermensch

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 11:00 PM

-Aj-, your first picture is like a frikkin' weird smiley face.
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#22 Aj

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Posted 20 August 2008 - 09:12 AM

-Aj-, your first picture is like a frikkin' weird smiley face.


I did realize this.. From hence forth this tactic shall be know as "The evil clown". It would sound great in a planning situation.. "You guys.. evil clown that choke point!'.. After all we play with plastic guns, this sport needs to have some humor

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#23 camo

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Posted 20 August 2008 - 11:50 AM

I used a vulcan at an indoor war the other day, and I was tasked with defending a choke point. I had 4 belts connected to each other, for a total of 100 shots. I used the three man team. I was aiming, shooting, and making sure the thing didn't jam (I was stationary, so the huge belt was possible), one person on the other side reloading the belt as I fired, and a third with a longshot protecting us from being flanked. It worked out well, and the reloading time was not that bad, because I did not use the ammo box, so it was a matter of grbbing the end and sticking it in.
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#24 CaliforniaPants

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Posted 20 August 2008 - 07:55 PM

so it was a matter of grbbing the end and sticking it in.


And that my friends, is what she said.

On topic now, this is very doable and fun as hell. As long as you have a little muscle and can handle the bulk it's great. As for reload time, may i suggest linking one chain into a loop. With the loop, you can reload it without taking it out of the gun, speeding up reloads. The only bad point is that you may get a misfire here and there, depending on how consistent your reloads are.
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