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Electric Automatic Breeched Hopper Proof Of Concept

For the Vulcan

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#1 Split

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 06:17 PM

Alright, you guys are probably thinking "what the fuck does 'Electric Automatic Breeched Hopper Proof of Concept' mean?"

As many of you know, the rotation mechanism in my Vulcan, that's used to advance the chain, broke. As of right now, it's completely removed. And I sold my chains. You guys are now probably thinking, "well, that just ruined the main advantage of the Vulcan - the rate of fire." This is true. But I plan to change that.

My first idea (this is before the mech broke) was to make the chain a loop around the front of the gun (15 links fits perfectly for anyone who wants to try this; be careful on the last link's spacing, it's pertinent) and make the gear train push a dart from a hopper into the chain for an infinite feed.

But since, my overall idea for the Vulcan to feeding darts is a hopper feeding straight into the barrel. That's an entire project in itself, but I've had this idea for some time now. From what I understand, it's not original. It has been tried before. And in all honesty, a deodorant clip is basically an 8 round hopper.

So what's the most efficient hopper? The breeched hopper. Great. But, with 3-4 rounds per second, how are you going to move a breech that fast? Simple, attach it to the gear train - the plunger tube. But it needs to be closed before the gun fires. This poses a problem. Also, the Vulcan only has a pull of 1 3/4", so the stefans are going to have to be shorter.

Here's the solution, in a nice proof of concept.
Posted Image
The blue represents the plunger tube; the orange is the connector rod from the breech to the system. It is attached on a pivot that is spring pulled downwards. It would normally be a lot longer, and the hook on the plunger rod would be further back to allow for the plunger tube. But since thisis just a proof of concept, this small change allows a big size reduction.
The barrel is connected to the breech by a good powered spring. The white is a wedge.

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Here you can see the plunger tube being pulled back. In the Vulcan this would be done by the motor. You can see the silver screw that catches the connector rod to pull back the breech.

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Once the plunger is pulled back far enough, the wedge dislodges the breech. The plunger continues back far enough to lock in as normal. Note: in the Vulcan in full-auto, the plunger does not catch. This is why the return spring needs to be decently strong.

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The spring closes the breech to be airtight.

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The plunger shoots forward (as normal, the work is done by the plunger spring). When it reaches a certain point, it latches back together with the connector rod. It is now back where it started.

Now this is a lot of work, and calibration. But what do you think? There are a lot of fragile pieces, but they can be machined. This is very feasible. Yet very difficult. This is my proof of concept.

At this point, I will be trying to get a breechless system to work, but the problems with that are that it has to be airtight. This means the entire hopper, and the cover. And you don't want to make the cover small (which would be easier to make airtight), because that would increase refilling time.

Edited by Splitlip, 06 August 2008 - 06:54 PM.

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Teehee.

#2 Dr Moose

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 06:30 PM

I don't get things like this, and "reserving this spot for my gun" why not just post whatever when you have it done?
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#3 Lynx

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 06:46 PM

Because, it makes everyone become anticipated for your work and shit.
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#4 Maeric

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 06:48 PM

On top of this kind of thing being annoying as shit, and the fact that most people don't follow through with their projects, I don't typically go looking through the "new posts" option, because its mostly spam and compliments that I don't have time to read through, so I'm not going to even go looking for this later, I'd assume most people feel the same way, or at least a few.
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#5 Split

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 06:55 PM

On top of this kind of thing being annoying as shit, and the fact that most people don't follow through with their projects, I don't typically go looking through the "new posts" option, because its mostly spam and compliments that I don't have time to read through, so I'm not going to even go looking for this later, I'd assume most people feel the same way, or at least a few.


Shut your face. It took all of a half hour. Learn some patience. You're the one just spamming.

The point of the placeholder is just so I can edit in the posts. I thought I had more pictures than I did, and if I needed a second post for them, provided no one had posted (which they generally have no reason to because it's basically a blank post) I would be able to get the spot right below my first post, making it easier for the NIC to see and find. Not to make them look through reaction pictures at an unfinished worklog.

Edited by Splitlip, 06 August 2008 - 06:59 PM.

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Teehee.

#6 keef

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 07:00 PM

I like the idea.

How does it fit in the Vulcan, if you tried it? And what are any problems with the idea?
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#7 CaptainSlug

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 07:03 PM

I can tell you right now that a breech that opens and closes three times a second is going to be very problematic and unreliable. That's just not enough time for a dart to make it all of the way into the breech before it closes.

Edited by CaptainSlug, 06 August 2008 - 07:05 PM.

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#8 Split

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 07:22 PM

I like the idea.

How does it fit in the Vulcan, if you tried it? And what are any problems with the idea?


The main problem:

I can tell you right now that a breech that opens and closes three times a second is going to be very problematic and unreliable. That's just not enough time for a dart to make it all of the way into the breech before it closes.


The darts probably won't feed fast enough. But the hopper would have a spring loaded follower. It would have to be a very precarious design however to meet all of the needs.

Other problems:
Epoxy is only okay with brass. It's nothing spectacular. At 3 rotations per second, I imagine parts will start moving.
It fits in the Vulcan okay. It just needs a bit of very cutting and engineering (the connecting rod will need to go above the plunger supports; I really need to finish those reference pictures so that you understand comments like this better). Also, making the connector on the plunger may do some damage to its structural integrity. But as I mentioned, these can all be machined.

Edit: Thanks bob.

Edited by Splitlip, 06 August 2008 - 07:22 PM.

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Teehee.

#9 CrazyIvan VI

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 07:27 PM

I will say, although it is an 'idea' thread, I find this very acceptable. You've come up with your idea, and you're posting it out here to see if people have any thoughts to improve upon your idea.

You've already 'made' the idea. So to people bashing him 'Just go do it already.'

I'm sure he's going to, as his brand new $40 Vulcan is broken.

On topic, however, I agree with Slug. You're going to need to get it spot on if it's going to work 3 times a second. However, from what I've read, most Vulcans don't get anywhere near the box promised 3 shots per second. So, once you've gotten it in your vulcan, see if it works.

I would recommend maybe installing your 'diagram' piece and cycling it a few times to see if it actually works, that way you don't waste time machining a useless project.
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#10 bartel

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 08:05 PM

I'm no electrician, but wouldn't lowering the power of the batteries slow the rate of fire? If so, I think it would work well. It would be nice to have a slow, sustainable rof.
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#11 BlackFox

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 09:14 PM

Ach, breeches are always a handful. This reminds me of several other projects I've tried involving automatic breech systems.

Not to deviate from the topic, but the rattler and ratchetblast are both primed in ways that I thought would work well with some breech ideas your concept reminds me of.

I tried this with the ratchetblast:

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I was going to attach a fishing line to the 19/32" to open the breech when it's cocked. My darts are short enough that it might have worked, but the ratcheblast just doesn't have enough power to be worthy of a clip.

The rattler was a little more far-fetched. I ran into the same problem you did: the breech has to be closed before it fires. My solution was this oddball set of wooden triangles that slid against each other inside an altoid box. One was attached to the breech and the other was attached to the firing handle. The triangles slid apart at the bottom and the breech closed before it fired. Sorry, no pictures for this one.

Edited by BlackFox, 06 August 2008 - 09:14 PM.

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